New engine pushrods coming off rockers

[moparsr2fast]

 Some pushrods falling out, one bent and broken. Sounds like someone didn't follow the correct sequence for setting the rockers... Imho


 

[cudaken]

i am not going to argue with anyone on this bad fuel issue,i have seen it many times with my own eyes,have been a mechanic most of my life.

It's ok Charlie. I guess now you know how I feel here sometimes. Lol.
I know what your referring to here and it does happen. Just when you get five people that all wanna dogpile, it's hard to be humble I know....I believe there's a reason many here aren't on FB. Many comments that garner support (no matter how wrong/incorrect), would get crucified there. Only the strong survive buddy.
You've always been square dealin and kind to me, hense my reply here. Hell, I've even took the time to learn a few things from ya! Lol.

While I have no horse in this races, I agree with CDR and Cooter that bad gas can make a valve hang open! With the flat head motor after the head was off we sprayed carb cleaner in the guides, whacked the valves shut with a rubber mallet, boiled the gas tank, installed the head and it ran fine! Just because you have been a mechanic for 30 years does not mean you have seen everything that can go wrong.

Now with that being said, do I think bad gas caused this problem, NO. With the rocker arms push rods being used I find it unlikely a valve would stick shut to the point it would bend a push rod. Plus, I see no reason that push rods would fall out due to stuck closed valves from bad gas.

If I was a betting man and if the right parts where ordered I would say the rocker arm valve lash was not set right. Was the valve lashed set cold before start and resat when warm?

My  worth, Cuda Ken

[Calif240]

It was set cold, and I did not reset after warm. I was under the impression that a roller hydraulic was set once and that was it. Did I misunderstand? This is my first build and all, so I could've been completely ignorant to a number of things that I'm sure are common knowledge to most of you guys.

During the very first startup I had a bad vacuum leak through a broken brake booster hose that I hadn't seen and it revved the engine up high immediately on start. At that time, the engine would have cycled quickly and there was very little oil pressure in the system despite a priming. I'm wondering if maybe it could have bled the lifters quickly and pushed out a few of the pushrods at that time? It then would've built pressure back up on the lifters that hadn't thrown the pushrods yet, right? I don't know if this could have caused it, but just in reading more and more through the physics of the system, it seems feasible.

I've verified all of my parts and they all match up nicely with everything I'm reading... here are a few good articles...

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_1011_what_you_need_to_know_about_valvesprings/school_of_automotive_machinists.html
http://www.cranecams.com/bulletins_listview.php?s_id=16
http://www.tuning.mbs.id.au/Engine/hyd_lifter.htm

Here is the camshaft.. I utilized all of the "recommended parts" from comp to try and ensure I wouldn't get a lot of issues with mismatched components.
http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=722&sb=2

Thanks again.
Terry

[fy469rtse]

So Terry, what now , heads back on and set geometery correctly, firstly to get those rockers sitting over the valve stem correctly , did you get instructions with all the parts you bought,
Check if you have this , it could mean shimming rocker shafts, look it up and do some reading, get the rocker travel right , the roller over the valve stem, and then the push rods,
I'm not convinced that incorrect lash setting was the culprit , hydraulic is more forgiving,

[Calif240]

Yep... Engine builder should have heads inspected today or Monday. I'm traveling the next few days, so prob no update for a bit. However, I'm gonna do exactly what you said after I validate a few more things, clean everything, etc. I should have a good update early to mid next week.
Thanks
Terry

[moparsr2fast]

  My apologies for not being detailed in my earlier post.  Picture 1 single cam lobe. Ideally, we want hydraulic preload set when the lobe is giving us the base circle, the ramp being in the 6 o'clock position. If, for some reason, the preload was set with say the ramp anywhere from 12 to less then 6, the preload will be to loose, and be the possible cause of the pushrods falling out. If the preload was set as the ramp was coming from 6 to the 12 o'clock position, then you could easily exceed the amount of plunger travel in the lifter. This in turn could open the valve until the spring binds. Once that spring is fully compressed, and there is more lift on the cam lobe, something will give. In this case, a pushrod. Since you are using hydraulic rollers Terry, there would be no evidence of this aside from the broken pushrod. Had it been a solid cam, more then likely a lobe would have at the very least been galled. This would be a very easy mistake to make. I hope the best for you though. Maybe even a video of her running later? 

[Calif240]

Just to finally update everyone on the conclusion of this one... so I had the car down at the local dyne shop with a few guys and we had the heads completely off, everything is re-inspected twice and we couldn't find any evidence of anything wrong. So everything was re-assembled and the pushrods re-adjusted to the spec provided. Long story short, the dyno shop thinks that the engine builder didn't adjust adjust the pushrods properly with the hydraulic rollers. There was no evidence of any other issue and the engine did several pulls on the dyno up above 5,000 rpm without showing any issues after they reassembled everything. It has ran since with what seems to be no issue. Anyway, just wanted to update everyone since you guys were so nice in giving me advice and all. thanks again!

By the way... awesome dyno shop in Indy near the airport called Cozzolino's for anyone within driving distance. Great guys, great to deal with and big time gear-heads. They do some work on Andretti's non Indy-car stuff.

Terry

[firefighter3931]

That's great news Terry....thanks for the update ! 


Ron