A little perspective on the universe

[TK73]

I suppose I choose the side that is not so presumptuous as to know that a "god" exists or not...

[bull]

I suppose I choose the side that is not so presumptuous as to know that a "god" exists or not...

You could always settle on fire insurance, just in case.

I liken evolution to the act of leaving a pile of 2x4s, a hammer and some nails on some distant, inhabited world and returning a million years later to find a dog house. I don't think any reasonable person would assume it just came into being on its own. Same with the formation of the Earth for example, the materials may have been here to create trees and bugs and people but I just can take that 'leap of faith' to believe it happened all on accident.

[TK73]

I suppose I choose the side that is not so presumptuous as to know that a "god" exists or not...

You could always settle on fire insurance, just in case.

[bull]

Sorry, I added to it. Do you have a question?

[Headrope]

Its only sad that in the mainstream media & in intellectual circles, people of fatih are typecast as weak minded, when nothing could be further from the truth....but try convincing this to the ever elite minded college professors & their ilk.

Please be more careful with your assertions, CaptMarvel - especially when accusing others of typecasting.
I am a member of the so-called "mainstream media" and have never typecast any person of faith as being weak-minded.

[Charger Aficionado]

  I heard a former NFL player speak one time...  He had some odd facts to proove the oddity that we exist...

He said:  "These are TRUE FACTS:
If our Earth's atmosphere were thiner we would all BURN TO DEATH
If our Earth's atmosphere were thicker we would FREEZE TO DEATH

If we were a mile further from the sun we would FREEZE TO DEATH
If we were a mile closer to the sun we would all BURN TO DEATH

If our earth's rotation was faster by one mile per hour we would FREEZE TO DEATH
If our earth's rotation was slower by one mile per hour we would all BURN TO DEATH

If our axis was tilted we would either FREEZE TO DEATH OR BURN TO DEATH"

AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON... 

His argument that God put us here and made what we have possible was matter-of-fact.  This made it un-denyable fact in I would say 100% of the people at that college field.  It really SANK-IN with me, and i am a HUGE SCEPTIC...  This man had really researched, and made a SLAM DUNK argument for Christianity.  He even went-on to all the Historians that have Independent accounts of Jesus Christ on Earth...  It was an amazing lecture...

[89MOPAR]

 How does the NFL players arguments prove that God is a "Christian" God  ?

Doesn't Earth have an elliptical orbit of the Sun , therby putting us a mile closer and a mile farther away from it at certain times ?
Maybe I am remembering my astronomy/ science wrong ? 

[John_Kunkel]

Dont wish to make you feel uncomfortable about your own lack of beliefs, but I do know for sure...I suppose then that I am officially one who has some measure of faith.

The only way one could possibly "know" would be through personal observation, without that one can only "have faith" that what they believe is true; therefore, to "know" and to "have faith" are totally different.

[RD]

Dont wish to make you feel uncomfortable about your own lack of beliefs, but I do know for sure...I suppose then that I am officially one who has some measure of faith.

The only way one could possibly "know" would be through personal observation, without that one can only "have faith" that what they believe is true; therefore, to "know" and to "have faith" are totally different.

So on that note, you have to define what exactly is "knowing" or "knowledge."  Is it being able to physically touch, hear, see, taste, or smell?  All of those make up direct observation. Do we know there are things called quarks or do we just have faith that they are there because of some scientists theory?  Do we know that the universe is expanding or is some scientist just having a faith based moment upon what he sees as logic, where others may see as lunacy.  Remember, the difference between a genius and a lunatic is the degree of success.

If we, us humans, are so smart that we have to have personal observation to know something, and the fact that anything faith based cannot be construed as knowledge because we did not observe it, then how do we know how we feel?  If so, if you love someone, can you prove it?  Love is faith based.  Anyone can do kind acts for one another, but love is not something you can touch, taste, see, hear, or smell.  Yet we "know" it exists.

According to your argument, love does not exist.  But since we "know" love exists, then your argument lacks merit.  So through faith, we can "know" things.

[John_Kunkel]

Dont wish to make you feel uncomfortable about your own lack of beliefs, but I do know for sure...I suppose then that I am officially one who has some measure of faith.

The only way one could possibly "know" would be through personal observation, without that one can only "have faith" that what they believe is true; therefore, to "know" and to "have faith" are totally different.

So on that note, you have to define what exactly is "knowing" or "knowledge."  Is it being able to physically touch, hear, see, taste, or smell?  All of those make up direct observation. Do we know there are things called quarks or do we just have faith that they are there because of some scientists theory?

Apples/oranges, I'm not going around claiming to "know" quarks exist. Much actual knowlwdge can be acquired without personal observation but any claim to "know" the existence of a supreme being isn't really knowing; it's faith.

Do we know that the universe is expanding or is some scientist just having a faith based moment upon what he sees as logic, where others may see as lunacy.  Remember, the difference between a genius and a lunatic is the degree of success.

The light shift can be observed, whether or not it proves the universe is expanding is debatable but at least the hypothesis is based on observation. Nowadays anyone who claims to have actually seen God is considered a nut case; even by staunch believers.

If we, us humans, are so smart that we have to have personal observation to know something, and the fact that anything faith based cannot be construed as knowledge because we did not observe it

Correct. The reason all religion is called "faith" is simply because the existence of God can only be proven by observation; belief without observation is an act of faith.

According to your argument, love does not exist.  But since we "know" love exists, then your argument lacks merit.  So through faith, we can "know" things.

Again, apples/oranges; love is an emotion, God is (some believe) an entity and as such requires observation for proof of existence.

[RD]

I am not talking about religion (i.e. scripture)... I know how much that drives you crazy.  I decided to talk more about other things, more realistic to you, based upon your principle of direct observation. 

People can claim to love an omnipotent being.  People claim that the aspects needed to sustain an Earthly relationship between two humans are based upon love, faith, commitment, submissiveness, fidelity, and dedication to name a few.  Are these not the same aspects that people use in religion?

What I am saying is that your argument is based on the premise that in order to "know" something, it can only be accomplished through direct observation. Yet I have argued that the same aspects of love between two humans are also displayed towards an omnipotent being by the same humans in terms of religion.

On that account, if you cannot prove through direct observation that love exists, yet we know it exists, then you cannot prove that an omnipotent being exists on that same premise.  Because faith, love, dedication, commitment, submissiveness, and fidelity are not quantifiable nor can they be directly observed.  Most of all, love cannot be physically, directly observed.

John, do/did you love your parents?  If so, prove it.  Other than doing acts, which anyone can do, actually prove your emotion of love that you have/have had for your parents.  If you can prove it, and I cannot bring up another example where that is not love and can be a random act of kindness, then direct observation has no foundation when it comes to identifying or "knowing".

[Khyron]

Doesn't Earth have an elliptical orbit of the Sun , thereby putting us a mile closer and a mile farther away from it at certain times ?
Maybe I am remembering my astronomy/ science wrong ? 

no you remember right, I'll post a link in responce below

He said:  "These are TRUE FACTS:
If our Earth's atmosphere were thiner we would all BURN TO DEATH
If our Earth's atmosphere were thicker we would FREEZE TO DEATH

The atmosphere is made up on many different layers. If one were thinner it would not cause such an extream. Now unless he meant the layer that keeps us protected from harmful solar radiation. But even then Human life may have been different. however other levels of life may have formed.

If we were a mile further from the sun we would FREEZE TO DEATH
If we were a mile closer to the sun we would all BURN TO DEATH

he was wrong. has an elliptical orbit.
http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=317

If our earth's rotation was faster by one mile per hour we would FREEZE TO DEATH
If our earth's rotation was slower by one mile per hour we would all BURN TO DEATH

I think this would have more of an effect on gravity. Not heat. I'll have to research this a bit more.

If our axis was tilted we would either FREEZE TO DEATH OR BURN TO DEATH"

The Earth wobbles. The axis tilts differently.


also earths atmosphere has and always well change. Part of the evolution of the planet. Man didn't just appear one day.
http://www.ux1.eiu.edu/~cfjps/1400/atmos_origin.html

also some good reading on Earths magnetic fields.
http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=523

now, I'm not trying to say I have all the answers or that i'm a genius or anything, but a little research and basic astronomy and earth science classes tell me that the guy should have stuck to playing football