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70 charger starting and electrical issues

Started by Charger_70, April 16, 2014, 08:36:10 PM

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b5blue

#50
April 21, 2014, 02:34:34 PM
You need to pull down the large flat coupler for the keyed ignition switch next to the steering column. That way you can test if it all works. I've had them go bad and not crank the starter when installed. (That could be your start problem that lead to a push button.)
You'll be checking to see if that switch is giving the dual function of start-run feeds to the coil also. (One way to verify is to buy a new column switch, plug it in and see what functions, they are about 35.00 from any parts store.) Find where that "green wire" you mentioned runs to and from.
Your car has been cobbled together electrically and you need to find out why. (Look for melted wires and bad connectors.) It may have been patched poorly with very little wrong or ready to really screw up and burn.
  Post picks of starter relay and ignition wiring so we can see clearly what is going on under the hood. You may want to put a 30amp fuse between the big red and black wires rather than just sticking them together if your going to keep doing that. Be certain anytime you do start the engine that your battery is in 100% condition and fully charged so you don't over work the charging wiring from the alt. and make things worse.
Did you remove and check all bulkhead connections? Have you cleaned and checked all of the fuse block prongs and fuses?
Take your time, download wire diagrams and start learning the colors of what goes where.   

Charger_70

#51
April 21, 2014, 04:03:02 PM
Quote from: b5blue on April 21, 2014, 02:34:34 PM
You need to pull down the large flat coupler for the keyed ignition switch next to the steering column. That way you can test if it all works. I've had them go bad and not crank the starter when installed. (That could be your start problem that lead to a push button.)
You'll be checking to see if that switch is giving the dual function of start-run feeds to the coil also. (One way to verify is to buy a new column switch, plug it in and see what functions, they are about 35.00 from any parts store.) Find where that "green wire" you mentioned runs to and from.
Your car has been cobbled together electrically and you need to find out why. (Look for melted wires and bad connectors.) It may have been patched poorly with very little wrong or ready to really screw up and burn.
  Post picks of starter relay and ignition wiring so we can see clearly what is going on under the hood. You may want to put a 30amp fuse between the big red and black wires rather than just sticking them together if your going to keep doing that. Be certain anytime you do start the engine that your battery is in 100% condition and fully charged so you don't over work the charging wiring from the alt. and make things worse.
Did you remove and check all bulkhead connections? Have you cleaned and checked all of the fuse block prongs and fuses?
Take your time, download wire diagrams and start learning the colors of what goes where.    I posted a few pics of bulkhead and starter relay on 1st page. I think i heard the guy say the switch was bad so they added the button.

Charger_70

#52
April 21, 2014, 04:08:14 PM
I think they bypassed ammeter with red and black wire and hooked it to a volt gauge but it wont start unless i arc the wires. The bulkhead had 1 bad place in it and that were green wire is put in the green wire goes from bulkhead to starter relay to starter and leads inside to the back of button .

b5blue

#53
April 21, 2014, 04:17:58 PM
I need to see under the hood in the engine compartment, what/how ignition and start relay are wired.  :scratchchin:

Charger_70

#54
April 21, 2014, 07:28:28 PM
Here is 1

Charger_70

#55
April 21, 2014, 07:35:13 PM
The green wire curls around and has another green , yellow, and blue wire spliced into it. So 1 wire has 3 wires running from it. The other green wire goes to starter relay the yellow 1 runs under dash and goes to the push button and the blue wire runs down to the starter .

b5blue

#56
April 22, 2014, 06:55:45 AM
  Green from start relay to pin "J" on bulkhead should be a fusible link so right now your feeding the system with no overload protection. That feeds the ALT gauge inside the dash with a #12 red wire. It is +12V to and through the Alt gauge and back into the harness from battery to run things before the engine is running and the alt. is outputting.
      So there is your big red and black wires that are added. Fuse that green from relay to bulkhead or replace the fusible link.
  On the bottom of the relay to the right is the ground connector for the NSS (neutral safety switch) just to the left is positive. The one on the left gets ground from a round 3 pin switch on the transmission only when in park or neutral. Test it to see if it is working, it should read to ground only in Park or Neutral shift positions. (With the shift in rev./drive it will be open....no reading.) The other 2 wires on that round tranny switch turn on the backup lights, we are not going to worry about that now.
  The yellow wire is a jumper feed supplying +12V to ashtray switch for start so not is not fused ether.  :scratchchin:
  Starting to understand things better? Get me pics of how ignition is wired.  :scratchchin: 70 had points so that has been changed and may not be correct. 

Pete in NH

#57
April 22, 2014, 08:55:52 AM
Neal,

I made the same comments you did about the green wire and no fuse or fusible link way back in the early part of this thread. I'm not sure the OP understands what we are trying to tell him about the danger of burning his car up. I hope you can get him to understand. There are some pictures posted earlier in this thread that show a pretty hacked up wiring system. It looks like a typical 40+ year-old car that's gone trough multiple owners, some of which had little idea of what they were doing.

b5blue

#58
April 22, 2014, 10:40:44 AM
Right you are Pete! Safe not sorry, I have a bulk pack of fuses and 3 meters. I think we figured out what is failing here but chime in on anything you may think of.  :2thumbs:

Charger_70

#59
April 22, 2014, 11:13:40 AM
Ok so i need to put a fuse on green wire from bulkhead to starter relay? What bout the wires that are connected to it do i just leave them connected? I tested starter relay  jus with key on and there only 1 place getting power the rest was showing no reading

Pete in NH

#60
April 22, 2014, 01:06:24 PM
Yes, you really do need a fuse in place of that green wire someone added. Go down to the local NAPA store and ask for a 50 amp blade type fuse. They are called Maxi-fuses and you can get a holder for them at NAPA also. The holder will have two heavy wires and you will cut the green wire at attach one end of the fuse holder wires to each end of the cut green wire. When someone added that green wire they left the car in a very dangerous condition. You could easily have a fire and burn up the car or all the wiring if something goes wrong. From the troubles your have reported things are already going wrong!

Next as Neal suggested it would be a good idea to get rid of that push button starter switch and get the ignition switch in the steering column wired in correctly. The switch itself may be bad as Neal mentioned and that is why someone added the push button. As Neal mentioned a picture of the ignition control box will show us what is on the car and we can tell you how to wire it up correctly so the car will start with the key.

Then we can go to work on the charging circuit if need be.

Charger_70

#61
April 22, 2014, 09:23:02 PM
Ok great! Hoping to get this straightened out. So jus makin sure 1st thing i need to do is buy a 50 amp fuse and put it on the green wire that goes from bulkhead to starter relay? What about the wires that are connected to that green wire that lead to starter and the button do i just leave them connected for now?

b5blue

#62
April 23, 2014, 07:13:58 AM
Quote from: Charger_70 on April 22, 2014, 09:23:02 PM
Ok great! Hoping to get this straightened out. So jus makin sure 1st thing i need to do is buy a 50 amp fuse and put it on the green wire that goes from bulkhead to starter relay? What about the wires that are connected to that green wire that lead to starter and the button do i just leave them connected for now?
15amp fuse there.

Charger_70

#63
April 23, 2014, 09:40:33 AM
Ok were does the 50 amp fuse go? I guess jus leave the other wires connected .

Pete in NH

#64
April 23, 2014, 10:30:10 AM
Put the 50 amp fuse between the starter relay stud and the other wires that are spliced into the green wire. When things get cleaned up and the car is back to starting on the ignition key, those wires to the push button will go away.

Are you up for replacing the ignition key switch if that is bad? Also, please post a picture of the electronic ignition box.

Charger_70

#65
April 23, 2014, 12:49:25 PM
Yea i def want to be able to start with key.  So a 50 amp fuse between bulkhead to starter relay ?

b5blue

#67
April 24, 2014, 08:17:46 AM
Just to be clear the post on the start relay that has a red wire that comes from the battery and an added green wire: disconnect the green wire and put a 40-50 amp fuse from the post to the green wire.
For now remove the yellow wire (That feeds the start button switch in your ashtray.) from the green and put the 15 amp fuse on it then put it on the same post mentioned above, get me?  :scratchchin:

So now you have:   

Start relay post  +12V Fused 40amp to green wire
                                    Fused 15amp to yellow wire 

Pete in NH

#68
April 24, 2014, 08:33:40 AM
Thanks for the posting Neal, I was just going to post a response on the fuses.

To Charger_70- The last group of pictures you posted still didn't show the ignition system. The one picture was of the voltage regulator for the alternator. Post some wider pictures of the whole engine compartment. Also, take the distributor cap off and show us what is underneath it. We still need to figure what kind of ignition system is in the car so we can tell you how to wire up the starting circuit and we still need to find out if the ignition switch needs to be replaced so it will start with the key.

The pictures of the wiring under the steering column will be the ones we will work with to test the ignition switch.

Charger_70

#69
April 24, 2014, 08:38:09 AM
Quote from: b5blue on April 24, 2014, 08:17:46 AM
Just to be clear the post on the start relay that has a red wire that comes from the battery and an added green wire: disconnect the green wire and put a 40-50 amp fuse from the post to the green wire.
For now remove the yellow wire (That feeds the start button switch in your ashtray.) from the green and put the 15 amp fuse on it then put it on the same post mentioned above, get me?  :scratchchin:

So now you have:   

Start relay post  +12V Fused 40amp to green wire
                                    Fused 15amp to yellow wire 
Ok this is what ive done. The green wire goes from bulkhead to starter relay I have put a 15 amp fuse there. The yellow wire hooks to it goes to the button Ijust spliced it back in green wire. Is this right so far?

Pete in NH

#70
April 24, 2014, 08:46:48 AM
No, not quite right!

You want the 50 amp fuse there. Read Neal's post again and you will see where the 15 amp fuse should go in the yellow wire.

Charger_70

#71
April 24, 2014, 08:56:23 AM
Ok pics on the way. So the green wire from bulkhead to starter relay needs 50 amp and the yellow wire that connects to the same  green wire needs the 15 amp fuse . So one 50 amp and one 15 amp will go on one wire the green 1 

Pete in NH

#73
April 24, 2014, 09:28:44 AM
Okay,

Thanks for the additional pictures. That blue box on the passenger side fender well is a Chrysler electronic ignition system. Now we know what is in the car and can tell you how to correctly wire the ballast resistor and the ignition switch.

Next question- Do you have a test meter and can you send a picture of it so we can tell you how to use it to test the ignition switch.

Charger_70

#74
April 24, 2014, 09:30:07 AM
Ok  I think were I have the 15 amp fuse needs to be a 50 amp. Something different happened I went to start vehicle by just holding wires together and it fired up!! but it would die as soon as it blew the fuse just went through 3 15 amp fuses. It use to not start unless I arced them but never start by just holding them together but now I just held them together and boom it started. It actually ran a few min on 1 of the fuses but as soon as it blew it died.
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