I need more advice ASAP (haha)

[Drache]

So dealing with this '70 Charger in Ontario by dad has been humming and hawing about me buying it saying it's a lot of money for a car. Today we say down and looked over the car and prices:

$22,000 for the car
$2,400 to ship the car
$2,600 for taxes
$400 to get it inspected

Then it still needs new arms rests, gas gauge, and tic toc tac and playing around with the transmission. Not to mention wanting a floor shift not a column shift. So $27,400 in base price before tinkering.

So dad thinks for a sec and asks me why I just don't offer $30,000 for the '70 Charger R/T clone here in BC that the guy wants $35,000. Cost me a little more in the long run but a way better deal. Freshly restored, 440 (instead of 383), car doesn't need an inspection as it's in the same province, already a console shift, etc. I just find it funny that he was at one point trying to talk me out of buying a Charger and then up and suggest just try and buy this one.

My father even offered to bus down with  a cousin of his and pick up the car on their own dime just for the privilege to drive it back. Didn't fall for that. I remember the stories the family tells of my dad and this cousin in my dad's '70 Charger R/T.  

Granted I know the guy won't even respond to that offer but what the hell sent one anyways.

If this doesn't work I'm buying a Chevy, Im tired of all you old mopar dudes  

[SuperJim]

Interesting to hear what response you get. You never know...

[F8-4life]

Yep 30k for a 35k asking price is still a pretty serious offer.

[Aero426]

Yep 30k for a 35k asking price is still a pretty serious offer.

I agree.  That's not a lowball.

[tan top]

   good luck         

[bakerhillpins]

So you just did what most folks never stop to do. Which is evaluate the total cost up front and make a rational decision based upon the reality of the situation.  If you end up with the car you'll be in a much better situation.

Yep 30k for a 35k asking price is still a pretty serious offer.

I agree.  That's not a lowball.

  I wish you the best of luck, ya never know.  I personally like this car much better than the other one based upon your description.

[BrianShaughnessy]

Offer $25K and hope to settle at $30K         Good luck!   

[Drache]

blah

[Drache]

nevermind on the roadrunner, bench colmn shift. to bad 

[myk]

The only cost you should be concerned with right now is the initial purchase price, as there is never an end to the amount of money these cars will drain from us as we grow older with them.  Get the car, then worry about all of the other costs/drama later...

[Drache]

The only cost you should be concerned with right now is the initial purchase price

Initial cost concerns the car itself, taxes, and shipping/inspection if out of province.

[Mopar Nut]

Good luck!

[Drache]

Got this email about the Charger:

There was some rust above the rear wheel wells and the trunk pan but it has been repaired and a new trunk pan welded in.  The only thing the car needs right now is some electrical work on the instrument cluster, the dash lights went out and I haven't attempted to fix it.  The engine was built by Bruce Standeven in Falkland and has about 450 hp he said.  It has 6 pack pistons and rods, is balanced and blueprinted, has a Comp Xtreme Energy XE274H cam kit, has HD oil pump and Edlebrook aluminum water pump, Mopar Preformance Aluminum intake, and new 850 cfm Edlebrook carb..  The rear end is an 8.75 with 323 gears, not a sure grip.  Please be aware the car is a Charger 500, not an R/T, it is a clone R/t only, not numbers matching.  The restoration is a DIY project also, not a pro shop frame-off.  The price is negotiable.

[TUFCAT]

Man, you guys sure have some HIGH prices up there in Canada....if I were you, I'd wait.  None of the cars you mentioned have screamed "deal" to me.

[Drache]

Man, you guys sure have some HIGH prices up there in Canada....if I were you, I'd wait.  None of the cars you mentioned have screamed "deal" to me.

The yellow roadrunner was $35,000 firm so that's out anyways. The '70 Charger with it's electrical problems and non-suregrip doesn't sound like it's worth $30,000 to me let alone the $35,000 he's asking.

There are just no mopars for sale in BC that are worth it. I can't buy from the US because any $20,000 car in the use will turn into $34,000 by the time I get it here.

I swear I should just buy a chevy and be done with it, mopar prices are through the roof 

[Baldwinvette77]

Man, you guys sure have some HIGH prices up there in Canada....if I were you, I'd wait.  None of the cars you mentioned have screamed "deal" to me.

The yellow roadrunner was $35,000 firm so that's out anyways. The '70 Charger with it's electrical problems and non-suregrip doesn't sound like it's worth $30,000 to me let alone the $35,000 he's asking.

There are just no mopars for sale in BC that are worth it. I can't buy from the US because any $20,000 car in the use will turn into $34,000 by the time I get it here.

I swear I should just buy a chevy and be done with it, mopar prices are through the roof  

Theres plenty of cheap gm a-bodys for sale, i got my 70 olds cutlass s for 3500$, drove it home, and kept it that way for about 2 years  

saw a 71 buick gs "clone" for 6000$ a while ago  

[Drache]

saw a 71 buick gs "clone" for 6000$ a while ago  

I like my buicks depends on what they are. The Skylark/GS/GSX line is nice. There is a '70 GSX Convertible for sale (not sure if real GSX) but has a 455 Stage 1 that was put into the car.

But the only car I'll spend $30,000 on is a MOPAR. Which sucks because 3 months ago there was a '71 Superbee for sale in BC for $28,000

[bakerhillpins]

Got this email about the Charger:

There was some rust above the rear wheel wells and the trunk pan but it has been repaired and a new trunk pan welded in.  The only thing the car needs right now is some electrical work on the instrument cluster, the dash lights went out and I haven't attempted to fix it.  The engine was built by Bruce Standeven in Falkland and has about 450 hp he said.  It has 6 pack pistons and rods, is balanced and blueprinted, has a Comp Xtreme Energy XE274H cam kit, has HD oil pump and Edlebrook aluminum water pump, Mopar Preformance Aluminum intake, and new 850 cfm Edlebrook carb..  The rear end is an 8.75 with 323 gears, not a sure grip.  Please be aware the car is a Charger 500, not an R/T, it is a clone R/t only, not numbers matching.  The restoration is a DIY project also, not a pro shop frame-off.  The price is negotiable.

Well, he says the price is negotiable so I read that as he knows he has it priced to high. Figure out what it's worth to you and start a little below. Know your limit and walk when it's exceeded. Make sure you have the funds so you can close the deal when you make it. I don't know how far it is from you but sounds like it was close enough to go down and back in a day. Your going to have a much better feeling about the car and a better position to negotiate standing there looking at it. I drove 4 hrs one way to look at mine and then went back to pick it up after wiring the funds.  They were pushing back on me during negotiations until I said that I could wire the money on the spot.

[Drache]

Well, he says the price is negotiable so I read that as he knows he has it priced to high. Figure out what it's worth to you and start a little below. Know your limit and walk when it's exceeded. Make sure you have the funds so you can close the deal when you make it. I don't know how far it is from you but sounds like it was close enough to go down and back in a day. Your going to have a much better feeling about the car and a better position to negotiate standing there looking at it. I drove 4 hrs one way to look at mine and then went back to pick it up after wiring the funds.  They were pushing back on me during negotiations until I said that I could wire the money on the spot.

I'm a little leery when someone says "price is negotiable, you have to see it in person". Last time I did that I drove 11 hours one way to look at a car and he would only drop his price $500, yet the car was priced about $2000 over what it was worth.

This car is a little closer, only about 12 hours round trip.

Personally with the electrical problems and the non-suregrip I'd only want to spend about $27,000 on this car IF the work he did himself was near perfect.

[Drache]

My mistake, the car is a 19 hour round trip and he won't take any less than $30,000 

[Drache]

New email:

The electric issue began when I sent the instrument cluster away for repairs.  Got a new speed and tic, toc, tac and recalibrated and refaced the other gauges.  When I reinstalled it the dash lights didn't work.  The feed comes from the headlight switch the dash dimmer and then to the fuse box.  The line is dead at the fuse box but if you manually feed the line back to the lights they come on.  Thus the problem is probably in the wire from the headlight switch to the dimmer, or in the line from the dimmer to the fuse box.  I don't think it will be a big expense to fix it and I already would have given it a try if I was feeling better.

The front control arms are tubular aftermarket items, along with .960 torsion bars and all poly bushings. This really stiffened up the front suspension as it had a real bad tendency for the front to wallow and flutter around with turns.  It rides and handles like a pro race car now but the hard suspension makes it pretty noisy over bumps in the road.  It has Hemi rear springs from Mopar Performance and Edlebrook shocks all around.  If it turns out you don't like the ride it's pretty easy to switch back in the original torsion bars.

I have had the car for ten years and bought it as a retirement project.  Worked on it during the winter and drove it during the summers.  Am selling it due to health issues.  I have $45,000.00 into it but I realize it's not worth that much.  It's a driver and not show quality.  $30G is OK but I hope you will come down to look at it.  Bring a pickup because I saved all the numbers matching parts in case some one wants to change it back someday (there's a big load including a rear end and transmission).  It very reliable and you shouldn't have any concern with driving it home to the Quesnel/Williams Lake area.  It gets about 12 miles per gallon.

Well crap, so much for taking a bus down and maybe driving it back with a bunch of spare parts 

[Bandit72]

Just my  It's over priced....I've followed charger prices for a long while and I think he'd have to go down to about $25000 to start considering it. If it was a real R/T I'd probably think different. The bottom line is, I get the feeling you're in a hurry, and if you're in a hurry you might find a car you can AFFORD but not exactly the car you WANT. You can go and get this and be more that happy with it for a year or two but in the long run you will always be thinking "I wish it had this" or "a real R/T would have been nice" etc. etc. And one more point....going from experience here, the day you pull the trigger and get this thing home, the one you REALLY want will come up for sale.

[Drache]

Just my   It's over priced....I've followed charger prices for a long while and I think he'd have to go down to about $25000 to start considering it. If it was a real R/T I'd probably think different. The bottom line is, I get the feeling you're in a hurry, and if you're in a hurry you might find a car you can AFFORD but not exactly the car you WANT. You can go and get this and be more that happy with it for a year or two but in the long run you will always be thinking "I wish it had this" or "a real R/T would have been nice" etc. etc. And one more point....going from experience here, the day you pull the trigger and get this thing home, the one you REALLY want will come up for sale.

A real R/T in Canada is $50k-$60k. So that will always be out of my price range. And sure that '70 Charger might only be $24,000 in the US, but once I get that to Canada that price balloons to $32,000! I checked with a survivor '70 R/T in the US I found sadly.

$24,000 USD = $26,400 CDN
$26,400 CDN + 12% Taxes = $29,600 CDN

And there is still brokerage, shipping, and inspection fees on top of that.

Am I acting a little rushed? Of course, I'll admit that. I've never been able to afford a 2nd Gen Charger so far. I grew up on stories of my dad and his cousin's with my dad's '70 Charger R/T when they were in their 20s.

"going from experience here, the day you pull the trigger and get this thing home, the one you REALLY want will come up for sale" I will certainly agree to that. Every time I've had money, I've searched and searched for what I've always wanted and it's never been available. Bought something almost as good though and a month later what I really wanted appears for sale. Three months ago there was a '71 Superbee clone for $28,000 that sold. That's my other dream car.

So here I've got to make my choices. Do I really want to jump on my dream car now for maybe $4000 more than what I should spend on it, or wait and hope another one comes along for $4,000 less? That's why I'm trying to get as much advice as I can.

[Old Moparz]

Just my  It's over priced....I've followed charger prices for a long while and I think he'd have to go down to about $25000 to start considering it. If it was a real R/T I'd probably think different. The bottom line is, I get the feeling you're in a hurry, and if you're in a hurry you might find a car you can AFFORD but not exactly the car you WANT. You can go and get this and be more that happy with it for a year or two but in the long run you will always be thinking "I wish it had this" or "a real R/T would have been nice" etc. etc. And one more point....going from experience here, the day you pull the trigger and get this thing home, the one you REALLY want will come up for sale.

I have to agree with this post, it does sound high for a car that isn't a real R/T. I have nothing against it, I actually don't care whether a car is real or not, but the asking price needs to reflect it. Another thing that I see as a red flag is that the seller knows there is work done on it that is possibly substandard. He states, "The restoration is a DIY project also, not a pro shop frame-off." Every time I read a statement like that it indicates that the seller is creating a gray area of the actual description. I've gone to look at a car where the seller says, "Just a few little bubbles in the paint from surface rust." That's code for, "The car is a bondo buggy that needs new sheet metal."

It looks nice in the photos but there is no way in hell I'd be looking to complete the sale spending that kind of money without physically inspecting the car myself. If you can't afford the expense involved to travel & inspect it, then you sure won't be able to afford the cost to re-restore it. Do yourself a favor & don't get all hung up on the excitement & rush into what could be an expense you can't afford. Letting emotions blur your judgement & you'll be posting another topic in a month or so entitled, "Looking to buy a General Lee? STAY AWAY FROM BK AUTO!! It's almost over!!! 

[Drache]

It looks nice in the photos but there is no way in hell I'd be looking to complete the sale spending that kind of money without physically inspecting the car myself.

I might be leaving Saturday to look at the car. That's why I'm looking for advice on it ASAP.

And once again, you cannot compare US Prices to Canadian prices. Yes a car might be only worth $25,000 in the US, but to get a $25,000 car into Canada I'd spend over $30,000. I don't know the prices in the US, can a person find a perfectly restored 100% 2nd Gen charger in the US for $20,000?

As for the statement on the quality of the car, yes that is why I want to look at the car and the guy refused to even sell the car unless I would look at it in person (not send anyone). As the old guy selling the charger said, it's a restored driver, not a show car.

And I am taking everything everyone says to mind and writing it down.

But think of this charger as buying a $22,000 USD car in the US and paying the exchange rate, taxes, and shipping costs on. In your minds is this car a $22,000 USD car?

The big item is the original differential.  Then the tranny, I have the original A/C system components, the original suspension parts, set of wheels and tires, original intake manifold, and a bunch of misc stuff – original steering box, fuel tank sender unit, sealed beams, decal kit, original Carter carb, Edlebrook carb tuning kit, and a bunch of stuff.  I didn't throw anything away, I kept everything I took off the car that was still serviceable.

[Old Moparz]

It looks nice in the photos but there is no way in hell I'd be looking to complete the sale spending that kind of money without physically inspecting the car myself.

I might be leaving Saturday to look at the car. That's why I'm looking for advice on it ASAP.

And once again, you cannot compare US Prices to Canadian prices. Yes a car might be only worth $25,000 in the US, but to get a $25,000 car into Canada I'd spend over $30,000. I don't know the prices in the US, can a person find a perfectly restored 100% 2nd Gen charger in the US for $20,000?

As for the statement on the quality of the car, yes that is why I want to look at the car and the guy refused to even sell the car unless I would look at it in person (not send anyone). As the old guy selling the charger said, it's a restored driver, not a show car.

And I am taking everything everyone says to mind and writing it down.

But think of this charger as buying a $22,000 USD car in the US and paying the exchange rate, taxes, and shipping costs on. In your minds is this car a $22,000 USD car?

The big item is the original differential.  Then the tranny, I have the original A/C system components, the original suspension parts, set of wheels and tires, original intake manifold, and a bunch of misc stuff – original steering box, fuel tank sender unit, sealed beams, decal kit, original Carter carb, Edlebrook carb tuning kit, and a bunch of stuff.  I didn't throw anything away, I kept everything I took off the car that was still serviceable.

Not because I said it, but I am glad you're going to go look at it so you don't get ripped off. Even if the seller is 100% honest, the differences in every person's perception of "Fair Condition" all the way to "Excellent Condition" will vary quite a bit. The fact that the seller is saying he won't sell it unless you see it tells me that he isn't trying to be deceptive. I told the guy who bought my '71 Barracuda that he should see it first, but being several states away he couldn't & sent someone. They crawled around the car, took a bunch of photos of it on the lift & a week later the buyer came with cash & a trailer.

If you end up not buying the car, whatever you do don't look at the trip as a waste of time & money. Look at it as a chance to make a trip, like a mini vacation, & a way to weed out potential money pits. Good luck.

[R6red4spd69RT]

Hey,

I'd say in the condition described it's about a 17,000 - 18,000 USD car. If it was a R/T I would peg it around 22,000 - 23,000 USD.

Mind you this is a very rough estimate.

[Drache]

1970 Charger R/T:
$45,000 - http://www.lonestarclassicmotors.com/1970-Dodge-Richmond-Texas-77406/5000123
$44,500 - http://cars-on-line.com/55552.html
$29,000 - http://cars-on-line.com/47367.html
$35,000 - http://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-Dodge-Charger-R-T-Hardtop-2-Door-7-2L-/301110087809
$36,000 - http://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-White-Charger-PS-PB-PW-AC-Restored-Magnum-440-Tons-of-Documentation-/131122596698

The average going price for a "restored" '70 R/T is about $33,000 (I posted some of the examples above).

The average going price for a "restored" plain '70 is about $22,000 (ebay, cars-on-line, etc)

[R6red4spd69RT]

What level of "restored" are we talking about?

When it's called a "driver" by the seller, this can indicate a level of restoration. So, really the only way to get a good estimate of the value is to take a peek at it.

Overall, don't be surprised if it isn't overpriced if and when you take a look at it.

Good luck though!

[Drache]

I won't be looking at the car this week. I wanted to take money just in case but today is a national holiday, banks are closed. Didn't realize it until I went to the bank to deposit the money from selling the Dart. 

Looks like I'll have to wait a week.

[imabozo]

I won't be looking at the car this week. I wanted to take money just in case but today is a national holiday, banks are closed. Didn't realize it until I went to the bank to deposit the money from selling the Dart. 

Looks like I'll have to wait a week.

I usually don't weigh in on this stuff, but you solicited for advice so here goes. It looks a little on the high side for a cloned R/T. I bought a restored numbers matching R/T in Newfoundland last year for $35k. I thought that was a high price at the time, but a little over a year later I'm ok with it. A few grand here of there will not change your life as much as having the Charger you want will. These cars are not in great supply in Newfoundland so I knew I had to pay a little more, but I also didn't have to fly to the states and trailer it back. Life is short. If you can afford it and like it, go for it. There will always be work to do on an old car. Instead of waiting for the "perfect" car for $4000 less that may never appear in your area, start driving the car you know you want and quit looking anymore.

With that being said make sure you look the car over so you are not surprised when you get home.

[Drache]

Just got emailed these since I couldn't go look at the car today like I wanted (next weekend!)

Not a big fan of the decals under the hood but those can come off easily....

[ACUDANUT]

Time to move to the U.S. What have you got to lose. ? Anyway, have the buyer write a bill of sale that you paid 100 bucks for. Less tax and money going to the government.
Those decals are hiding rust I bet.

[TUFCAT]

I think you need to slow down a bit, ...or do you have that money just burning a hole in your pocket?

[Drache]

I think you need to slow down a bit, ...or do you have that money just burning a hole in your pocket?

I have $7000 cash in my pocket right now and another $25,000 in one savings and another $5,000 in another savings. 

That being said I can't even go look at this charger for a week so I'll sit back and relax and keep my eyes open.

[69bronzeT5]

Where is it? I can always look at it if it's in my area.

[Drache]

Where is it? I can always look at it if it's in my area.

Opposite direction, this car is in Golden  

Good thing I didn't go down, I just heard the passes near Golden got 3 inches of snow and it even started snowing here in Williams Lake!  

The Green Charger in my other thread Cody is near your area though.

[R6red4spd69RT]

Something to really consider here, as far as the sellers price is concerned, is if the 440 and internal parts are mid to late 70's and also if the suspension is non R/T (such as leaf springs and torsion bars).

These might sound like technical things, but if the seller cut corners here it should be reflected in the price/value.

Just my   

[Drache]

Something to really consider here, as far as the sellers price is concerned, is if the 440 and internal parts are mid to late 70's and also if the suspension is non R/T (such as leaf springs and torsion bars).

These might sound like technical things, but if the seller cut corners here it should be reflected in the price/value.

Just my   

Engine was professionally rebuilt about 4 years ago, 4000 miles on the engine. Balanced, blue printed, etc. Done by a Bruce Standeven who searching online rebuilds a lot of Hot Rod engines for car guys here in BC.

He also said "The front control arms are tubular aftermarket items, along with .960 torsion cars and all poly bushings"

[R6red4spd69RT]

Engine was professionally rebuilt about 4 years ago, 4000 miles on the engine. Balanced, blue printed, etc. Done by a Bruce Standeven who searching online rebuilds a lot of Hot Rod engines for car guys here in BC.

He also said "The front control arms are tubular aftermarket items, along with .960 torsion cars and all poly bushings"
[/quote]

Sounds like this might be something for you!!

[Drache]

Sounds like this might be something for you!!

Either my dad will go down this weekend to look at it or I will and if the car is in decent shape then it will be brought home.

[Scaregrabber]

Not a horrible car and I'm sure he'll take less than asking. Being B.C. registered and able to drive it home saves a lot of coin and hassle. $2k and up transportation fees, $1k and up getting it through safety etc. My $2k Az. Sweptline ended up at $8k by the time I was able to register it in B.C.

Sheldon

[Drache]

Not a horrible car and I'm sure he'll take less than asking. Being B.C. registered and able to drive it home saves a lot of coin and hassle. $2k and up transportation fees, $1k and up getting it through safety etc. My $2k Az. Sweptline ended up at $8k by the time I was able to register it in B.C.

Sheldon

Yeah that saves a lot.

His lowest is $30,000 (for me). A family member phoned him up to try and buy the car himself (didn't tell the old man he was family of mine) and offered $30,000 for the car. The old man said the lowest he would go is $33,000.

Interesting.....

[firefighter3931]

Chryco (Neil) had a very nice 3rd gen Charger for sale awhile back ; 440 with pistol grip 4spd fully rebuilt. It looks better than most of the stuff you're looking at. I would contact him and see if the car is still available. He moved to Panama but the car stayed in Alberta and it might be in storage ?

page 5 on this thread :

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,51200.msg1208833.html#msg1208833



Ron

[crj1968]

I agree. That is one nice looking 71/72....   

[hemi-hampton]

$30,000+ sounds like way to much for that clone. You could by a real R/T cheaper in US. Just my opinion. LEON.

[Ghoste]

It does seem like a lot. 

[Drache]

It does seem like a lot. 

Yes for the price and with the electrical problems it has I decided not to get this car

[Daytona R/T SE]

For sale on moparts.com  


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJG8xF2r-e4


$19,995