And in the distance, another ebay seller sniffs glue......

[Crazy Larry]

Oh the horror, the horror  and for $10,000 it could be yours!!!!! 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Charger-383-727-Body-work-done-its-STRAIGHT_W0QQitemZ4619948755QQcategoryZ6199QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

and he was nice enough to throw in some additional pictures......

http://www.barnfinds.net/current/69charger-p/index.html

[tan top]

 

[Crazy Larry]

I was actually able to get my 383 '68 Charger with the engine in it, and driveable  - all for $6,500.

This was back in 2002 - they talk about th emuscle car market boom, but stooges like this guy really let it go to their heads.

For the love of God, get REAL or 

[bull]

If the body is truly straight and there's really no rust I would say that price is not out of line. After learning what it takes to get these things whipped into shape I would pay that much for that car if it's as he says it is. Having said that I don't think it's in as good of shape as he thinks it is based on what I'm seeing. His picture collection is less than revealing so it's hard to tell.

[Crazy Larry]

If the body is truly straight and there's really no rust I would say that price is not out of line. After learning what it takes to get these things whipped into shape I would pay that much for that car if it's as he says it is. Having said that I don't think it's in as good of shape as he thinks it is based on what I'm seeing. His picture collection is less than revealing so it's hard to tell.

It doesn't appear to be an R/T or special edition fo some kind - so with that price you should have an engine. And for the most part it doesn't even look like all the parts are there - I don't see the front valence or bumper. And he doesn't even show you the back end so I assume that is just as incomplete. He says all the parts are there to be given to you but what condition were they in, not to mention the interior.

I figure the car itself has about $5,000-$7,000 on the low end, left to go and that is with a donor engine and basic final paint job.

Add that all up and you are at $15,000-$17,000 - for that price you definitly will be able to find a solid and running daily driver of a Charger. Just hold on to the cash and let this guy keep his glue (not saying you were considering this, but if you were).

And all of this is IMHO

[hemihead]

If it was anybodys on this site, most people here would be insulted being offered less than $10,000.Goes back to my theory,if it's yours it's gold,if it's someone else's it's not worth anything.

[blackcharger]

If it was anybodys on this site, most people here would be insulted being offered less than $10,000.Goes back to my theory,if it's yours it's gold,if it's someone else's it's not worth anything.

Glad I;'m not the ONLY one who feels that way................

[chargerboy69]

Oh the horror, the horror  and for $10,000 it could be yours!!!!! 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Charger-383-727-Body-work-done-its-STRAIGHT_W0QQitemZ4619948755QQcategoryZ6199QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

and he was nice enough to throw in some additional pictures......

http://www.barnfinds.net/current/69charger-p/index.html

I am in total agreement with you. Maybe its a regional thing. I know where I live I still see running second generation Chargers for $5000 or less. Now they need work, and I do not see them everyday,  but they are out there. This guy on E Bay is nuts.

[Troy]

Let's see here... it's at a shop which means he probably owes them $5-6k for the labor they've already done. Add in the initial purchase price of the car and he's probably going to break even at $10k. Don't knock the price until you've tried to have one done by someone else. Most people are deathly afraid of having to do the body work so buying a car that's straight is much better than buying a rusty project with all the parts (most of those parts need restored any way so you aren't much better off). Hmmm, I have a ton of extra parts and a few engines that would drop right in there...

Troy

[Telvis]

Yep, you figure the car at $5K to $6K untouched. figure in the body work that's already been done. If it's truly straight and rust free this guy is breaking even or maybe losing a bit. I don't see the 10K being that bad of a deal.

[69charger2002]

yep. i agree. either way, this guy is not trying to retire off this car at $10k. people pay $5000 for some of the cars i have that need TONS of work sometimes no motor.. they could get to $10k and STILL not be where that car is at. this is not 5 years ago anymore.. these cars are through the roof, for now anyway. 10k for that car IF it's in rust free straight body shape..is not a steal but definitely worth it. 318 car or not.. times have changed.. good deals can still be found. but in going with ebay pricing, that car is right on the money. he just didn't start it at $100 to watch it go up to 10k
trav

[dkn1997]

probably paid 5grand for that bodywork alone.  also, it is a factory big block car with numbers matching engine.  Not a terrible deal.

[Crazy Larry]

From a buyer's perspective - without an engine and the rest of the needed body work - you are looking at a $17,000 project here.

Wouldn't it be wiser to take that $17,000 and invest it into a more complete vehicle?

I don't have access to any parts cars or donor engnes, so I'm thinking about the average buyer.

I really don't see the $5 K amount of work on this vehicle that everyone here says went into it - If that's $5 K worth of Body resto, then the guy's resto shop is a bit off.

However....

Hmmm, I have a ton of extra parts and a few engines that would drop right in there...

Troy

if you got the means......
why not make a www.dodgecharger.com advertising Charger out of it? You could get the vinyl decals advertising the site along side the Charger - and after it is all said and done, the whole project could be a tax write-off.

I'd still whittle the guy down a few grand - $10 K is too steep for the amount of work that is left.

[Troy]

Oh, I guess I should also have to add the disclaimer: yes, I know a finished car is cheaper and no, you (most likely) cannot build a non-R/T car for less than what it's worth. I also know that not everyone has $20-30k in their pocket to buy a finished car so they're looking for ways to maximize what they do have. Buying a half-finished project that a person with basic mechanical skills can finish seems to be the most economical way to get into a Charger for many people. Even though it will cost more in the long run it's what people can justify doing (especially if they have significant others who control the check book). Also, if a person can get that car on the road with only another $7k then they are waaaay better at this than me. Would I buy it for $10k? No. If I didn't have a garage full of Chargers and was just starting in the hobby I might.

It does have an engine: "Offered with the original number matching 383 (HP) and 727.  8 3/4 Suregrip rear end, new tires, will include 2 hoods and trunk lids and all original parts that were on the running car, bumpers, all glass, tick tock tach, 150mph speedo etc. etc...". If necessary, a 383 can be picked up for only $100-200 and I've even picked up 440s well under $500. Buying a car without an engine/trans isn't a big deal for me. For anyone who knows where there are running/driving cars for $5k then post the in the classifieds for all those people who aren't as fortunate.

PS. if you look at page 2 of the pictures there's one of the back.

Troy

[Crazy Larry]

We also must recognize that "the reserve has not been met" - so this guy wants more than $10 K - how much more? Not a glue...oh, I mean clue.

[Troy]

Out of order here a bit but I'm answering something that got posted when I wrote the other one...

probably paid 5grand for that bodywork alone.  also, it is a factory big block car with numbers matching engine.  Not a terrible deal.

Exactly.

From a buyer's perspective - without an engine and the rest of the needed body work - you are looking at a $17,000 project here.

Wouldn't it be wiser to take that $17,000 and invest it into a more complete vehicle?

I don't have access to any parts cars or donor engnes, so I'm thinking about the average buyer.

It has an engine (see above) - numbers matching 383 HP even. The average buyer looking on eBay is sure to be able to find things like engines, transmissions, and trim.

I really don't see the $5 K amount of work on this vehicle that everyone here says went into it - If that's $5 K worth of Body resto, then the guy's resto shop is a bit off.

We tend to cover this topic on a regular basis and many of us have to deal with body shops more than we'd like. The going rate for body shop labor is between $45 and $60 per hour. Assume that a Charger needs lower quarters, a trunk floor, driver's floor patch, and the rear window channels repaired (and possibly the corner caps, rear valence, and rockers) you're in the 100-200 hour range after stripping, welding, and priming. $5k will only get you 85-110 hours at most body shops (2-3 weeks). Remember you have to buy the parts and supplies on top of it too. Good epoxy primers are about $90 per gallon and you also have to buy sandpaper, sand (if blasted), thinners, welding wire, grinding discs, etch primer or metal conditioner, etc. I need most of that work plus part of an inner fender and a rear crossmember for one of my cars and was quoted near $7k hours and I only pay $25 per hour! (280 hours to get it ready for paint which is a bit further along than this one since it would be blocked.) The parts I needed totalled $1,200 and that's just the sheetmetal and shipping (no labor or supplies). I paid $2500 for the car and it's got the numbers matching 383. So, to get mine ready for paint, I'd be at just under $11k as long as everything went smoothly (which it never does). I paid $4k for another car with much less rust and no matching motor but it will cost me about $5k less to finish it since it came with many new parts and was already straight. Moral of the story - don't buy a car that needs rust repair/body work if you can help it OR buy someone else's failed project after they've done all the hard work.

However....

Hmmm, I have a ton of extra parts and a few engines that would drop right in there...

Troy

if you got the means......
why not make a www.dodgecharger.com advertising Charger out of it? You could get the vinyl decals advertising the site along side the Charger - and after it is all said and done, the whole project could be a tax write-off.

I have plenty of cars already that I *could* use for that but I'm not sticking vinyl decals on any of them. I really don't need a car to advertise with either. It wouldn't be much of a tax write-off any way but that's a whole different story.

I have to throw out my other caveat: As usual, it's worth exactly as much as someone will pay for it. If it doesn't sell he has to lower the price or keep it. That's the beauty of a fee market society. I also have to say that I have no problem buying cars/parts that are reasonably priced (after I add up all the details of course). This is why I have too many cars while other people complain about never finding one. They are seemingly looking for a concourse restored R/T for $5k to magically fall into their lap and everything other than that is too expensive. I'm fine with that.

Remember that getting into a good resto shop means sitting on a 1-2 year waiting list. Buying a car that just needs blocked, painted, and assembled puts you at least 10-14 months ahead.

Troy

[Crazy Larry]

Troy,

   That was a very in depth analysis into the resto world. Thanks for that.

    Do you really think that is what they did to this vehicle? from what you wrote - I doubt you'd see bits of rust still, if I look closely at the pics, there's still work that needs to be done along the base of the passenger door, and behind the drivers side rear window along the trim.
    I can see how resto work can get pricey after your explanation - but it really looks like this car was disassembled and given a once over, then work was haulted.

    Maybe I'm wrong, but it looks like they really didn't go in order like you listed - like in stages, it looks like they jumped around a bit which leads me to believe this isn't the work by a pro-resto shop.

   Either way, I wonder what his reserve is set at - now that will tell us more.




   

[472 R/T SE]

Just ask bull what he's spending.

You are miles ahead of the ballgame getting into almost rust free NW or SW car.  Body and paint nowadays kills ya'.

I know, I know, it's a ebody.  Look at what this brought.  A rebody, maybe.  But look how clean this car is and what it brought.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4605438358&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

[Crazy Larry]

If you have $17,000 to spend - there are auctions out there. I have the latest "Deals On Wheels" and on the cover is a 383 '69 Charger for $19,950.....

and on ebay, there are auctions like this......

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1968-Dodge-Charger-clean-powerful-excellent-condition_W0QQitemZ4620517961QQcategoryZ6199QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

granted its a column shift but hey, more for your dollar.

[Blakcharger440]

If it was anybodys on this site, most people here would be insulted being offered less than $10,000.Goes back to my theory,if it's yours it's gold,if it's someone else's it's not worth anything.

Oh that is absolutely true! That car is worth the money! And makes mine worth more in the end also.   

Mopar prices definitely have a trickle down effect. The more money someone pays for mopars in the open market or on Barrett Jackson it raises the prices to an extent on others no matter what the condition.
I expect to have to pay top dollar when looking at a mopar that I want to buy....but at the same time I will demand top dollar if I sell. Basically its capitalism and thats what America is all about.

[Troy]

If you have $17,000 to spend - there are auctions out there. I have the latest "Deals On Wheels" and on the cover is a 383 '69 Charger for $19,950.....

and on ebay, there are auctions like this......

granted its a column shift but hey, more for your dollar.

That's also the "starting bid". That particular car is also not finished nor is it complete/correct. There's holes in the doors for speakers, the interior pieces are badly worn, the trunk looks like it needs help, it's missing some of the weatherstripping, the dash is hacked, and it doesn't have a headliner. I can't tell what kind of shape the chrome is in. Lastly, look on the dash by the speedo and you'll see that it's missing the 68 only cover plate. I ended up buying an NOS one on eBay for $80 so sometimes it's the little items that blow a budget. My guess is that it will take $5k+ to get that one finished right and I that's just what I can see. Now you've got a $22-24k car. As I said earlier, you can buy a finished one for less than you can build it but not everyone has that kind of cash. Building a car up over two years or so allows a person to spread out the costs as they can afford them. I still don't think you could do the first one for $17k but that's just me.

A few other "costs" to avoid:
Wheels/tires - that first one has brand new ones but it's not hard to spend $1500+.
Chroming/polishing/plating - Chargers have a lot of stainless and chrome. Costs can easily exceed $3k.
Gauges/cluster - look around at other threads and you'll see prices for gauge resto around $700.
Wiring - I need about $1000 worth of harnesses on one car since the previous owner tossed the originals.
Glass - rear windows are especially expensive but any glass that's scratched/broken adds to the total.
Sure-grip rearend: If you want one then hope it comes with the car. You can get these used though.
Consoles - the cars are worth more but it's easy to blow $600-1000 on just that section of the car.
Lights - hood turn signals, taillights, and marker lights (reflectors in 69) can be pricey if you're missing them.
Inspection plates - look in the engine compartment and hope you don't need all of them.

Troy

[Ghoste]

Capitalism may be what America is about but hobbies are supposed to be about having fun.  If the focus on this becomes return on investment, then you might as well be puting your money into something else.  I'd MUCH rather see these cars driving the street or getting hammered at the dragstrip than being parked in some specialized pristine room that masquerades as a garage or being auctioned off like a Van Gogh or Renoir.

[Troy]

I'm right there with you Ghoste but some things are the same no matter what kind of car it is or what you do with it. It's certainly easier to justify spending a big chunk of cash on a Charger than it is on a mid-80s Chevette purely on the fact that it's still worth it (or most of it) when you're done. This is what most people mean when they discuss "investment". Sure, I can stand to lose a little cash if there were a catastrophe and I had to sell my Chargers but if my $20k Chevette is only worth $500 then I'm in deep trouble. The only true "investors" are the guys who won't be looking at $10k 383 cars any way. I don't recall seeing any of those in museums yet. I'm determined to drive all of my cars so that's why I prefer clones (or whatever the popular word is these days).

It has occurred to me that I don't have a single "cheap" hobby. At least I haven't tried golf yet! When I lived in Utah I was told that the "average" family of four spends $14k for a week long vacation at the resort (in 1999). That's one heck of an expensive hobby! I got in 150 days on the slopes for free so who's the smart one now? Of course, I could barely afford food but a guy has to have his priorities...

Troy

[Ghoste]

I guess I'm fortunate there.  My other hobby is playing guitar and I already own more than I need so that one doesn't cost and I live 2 blocks from one of the best kept golf secrets around.  Good thing because the way I play, it'd sure hurt to think I was paying that much to go drink beer.
You're right about 383 cars in museums and I think that's why the "investment" phrases irk me.   They are minimal investments at best.
I suppose the other thing is that I do some part time work for a large collector car auction house, so I get tired of hearing about it sometimes (I know, don't read the thread).  It's like bringing your work home I guess.

[Silver R/T]

with mopar prices going up I do not see this being unreal in few years.