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Rant about flippers

Started by Drache, April 13, 2014, 06:10:31 PM

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Drache

No not what you where to go scuba diving... the people who buy decently priced cars, polish them (if they do anything at all), then relist them for a $6,000 to $10,000 profit...

At least 3 or 4 of the mopars I've looked at were guys who openly admitting to do just that. I know it's a free country at all but it really makes it annoying when the cost of these cars are being inflated by guys trying to make a quick buck.
Dart
Racing
Ass
Chasing
Hellion
Extraordinaire

cudaken


You can only inflated the prices of something if someone is willing to pay the prices.

I understand where you are coming from but I have done it a few times. Bought a nice 68 Road Runner that I did not need for $500.00. (Long Time A Go) and sold it to a guy the next week for $1500.00.

Cuda Ken
I am back

1970Moparmann

Hate to say it.  This is how I built my 68 Charger.   If people get what they want when they sell a car, it is what it is in my book.  :Twocents:
My name is Mike and I'm a Moparholic!

73rallye440magnum

I've been on both sides of the fence.

Market price is market price. Just because a buyer got a good deal doesn't mean they need to 'pay it forward' no matter if their intention was to keep or sell.

Sucks when you're in the market to buy though. Gotta get to the deal first! The thrill of the chase...
WTB- 68 or 69 project

Past- '73 Rallye U code, '69 Coronet 500 vert, '68 Roadrunner clone, XP29H8, XP29G8, XH29G0

Drache

Quote from: 73rallye440magnum on April 13, 2014, 07:36:18 PM
I've been on both sides of the fence.

Market price is market price. Just because a buyer got a good deal doesn't mean they need to 'pay it forward' no matter if their intention was to keep or sell.

Sucks when you're in the market to buy though. Gotta get to the deal first! The thrill of the chase...

The problem was all the decently priced cars were bought last year and they are all for sale this year at least $5,000 more than what they were bought last year for. It sucks trying to be a buying recognizing all these cars that are now out of your budget.  :-\
Dart
Racing
Ass
Chasing
Hellion
Extraordinaire

crj1968

I call it smart. Gotta feed the family and all.  I've been on both sides of it too, you gotta have cash and move fast.

I'd rather flip cars and houses than burgers.

wingcar

It's a by-product of "Supply and Demand", and as long as people are willing to pay Barrett-Jackson prices for these cars...it will continue.  It's a game investors pay, which unfortunately pushes a lot of little guys out of the hobby because they can't afford the high prices.   To many that nice Mopar (or whatever the Make) is merely a 401K or investment property...not something to be enjoyed.  Can't really brame someone for wanting to make money on a product that has a high preceded valve....just makes it more of a challenge for many "car guys" when it comes to buying something that has not half rusted to death...
1970 Daytona Charger SE "clone" (440/Auto)
1967 Charger (360,6-pak/Auto)
2008 Challenger SRT8 BLK (6.1/Auto) 6050 of 6400

Aero426

Some of these wheeler dealer guys just seem to have a knack for salesmanship and psychology.

A fellow found a running and driving Boss 429 Mustang locally, low miles and off the road for many years, but powered by a 385 wedge.     This was a car not actively for sale, but one of  those found through a friend of a friend.   A figure of $20k was discussed to buy the car.   But for some reason the deal was not ready to come together.    Some time passes and the car owner decided to shop the car around a little and got an offer of 32k from another wheeler dealer type.     So when the buyer #1 came back around, the owner told him about the higher offer.    Buyer #1 then lays the guilt trip on the seller about having a gentlemans agreement to buy the car at $20k.   The owner relented and did the deal.     New buyer rushed down and drove the car home in a snowstorm.   He flipped it in a couple of weeks for $130k.     True story.  

Drache

Most of the cars I've posted about and had you mopar guys tell me "that car is over priced compared to here" were flipped cars. The problem comes with every day sellers seeing these prices so they sell their cars in prices to match those of the flipper and not their actual worth would be if the flippers weren't there.
Dart
Racing
Ass
Chasing
Hellion
Extraordinaire

Dino

Since 'we' are the ones buying the cars, 'we' dictate the market value.  If 9 guys complain the price is too high but the 10th guy buys it then this game will go on and on and on.

There is nothing wrong with buying a car, making it better and selling it for a profit.  That's just business.  Those that do nothing to it but mark up the price AND sell it for that, are the smarter guys.  All profit!  Not fun if you want the car no but can you blame them?  As long as they are not scamming, it's just a way to make a living.

It's all business, try to not take it personally.

I saw your other threads and it looks like you'll have cash in hand to buy, but don't think this makes it easier to find the right car.  You need to think like a dealer and be prepared to jump on a car like they are.  You are looking for a car just for you, the dealers are looking for a car that makes money.  They do not procrastinate either.  I know some of these guys and they usually have bought 2-3 cars before I start thinking about lunch.

Do as I did, I gave up looking at cars so I started placing wanted ads.  That way I found a car that had not been for sale until I made the owner think about that option.

I was the only one who knew about this car and jumped on it.  If it had been for sale before I asked it would've been picked up by someone else.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Homerr

Sure, business is business.  And a hobby is a hobby.


Flippers mix business with a hobby and ruin the hobby.   It's that simple.

Cooter

Funny how I've been bitching bout this for YEARS, and nobody cared.

Guy above said it best. Flippers mix making money with the hobby and therefore ruin it.
used to be a time when people asked questions about the car because they liked the cars for the cars.
now, it seems the only question I get is how much is this thing worth. It kills me how many people are just mesmerized by the filthy rich and their ability to just piss away insane amounts of money. I guess it's like the lotto where the folks are hoping to strike it rich by finding one of these cars in a barn for peanuts and sell for $500k. I guess one can dream.

Only problem is, even farmer brown watches Fast and ludacris, car whores, Barrett Jackson, etc.
they just happened to own the car through the years when they were nothing but 15 year old used cars.
" I have spent thousands of dollars and countless hours researching what works and what doesn't and I'm willing to share"

ACUDANUT

Quote from: Drache on April 13, 2014, 06:10:31 PM
No not what you where to go scuba diving... the people who buy decently priced cars, polish them (if they do anything at all), then relist them for a $6,000 to $10,000 profit...

At least 3 or 4 of the mopars I've looked at were guys who openly admitting to do just that. I know it's a free country at all but it really makes it annoying when the cost of these cars are being inflated by guys trying to make a quick buck.

Not what you use, when you go scuba diving.

Fixed it for you crache. :icon_smile_big:


bill440rt

"Strive for perfection in everything. Take the best that exists and make it better. If it doesn't exist, create it. Accept nothing nearly right or good enough." Sir Henry Rolls Royce

TUFCAT

Quote from: bill440rt on April 14, 2014, 06:30:59 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqHZWdFVyyQ&noredirect=1


Now wait just a goddam minute!

What the hell is this?....

a 1977 Mercedes 450 SL for $24,000?!!  Well, that's just TOO F-ING HIGH~  :smilielol: :smilielol: :smilielol:

Yessir, we're just blowing the living sh*t outta high prices!  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:



Indygenerallee

 :lol: :smilielol: I sell cars everyday, granted not classics but I have flipped my share. I still have to live it's not like im rich, like those Ass Monkey guys!  :smilielol:
Sold my Charger unfortunately....never got it finished.

ws23rt

Ranting about flippers sounds a bit like envy.   Is it not true that good cars can be had for a lower than the going prices?  We all would jump at a good deal as they come buy if we could.

If we found and made one of those great deals but then found ourselves with no room for the car in our garage or lives selling it comes to mind.

So what's next?  Look for a flipper for quick cash? :lol:


1974dodgecharger

I would do it if I fund my car now that's broken down...so hell yeah!!!!

Back N Black

Every person that ever sold a car is a flipper, no one sell to lose money on the deal. I don't have to tell you how much i paid for it, if you view the car and think its worth the asking price, you buy it.

ChargerST

In Europe the Mopar scene is quite small compared to the US so many cars that come up for sale are already known to many people. There is a guy who purchased a 1965 Satellite for not much money (I remember reading that he told the seller a BS story about looking for this car for such a long time, his dream car blablabla) and as soon as he got it he turned around and put it on ebay for almost double what he paid. Well he's been trying to sell the car for months now..no luck so far.

Aero426

Quote from: TUFCAT on April 14, 2014, 07:01:20 PM
Quote from: bill440rt on April 14, 2014, 06:30:59 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqHZWdFVyyQ&noredirect=1


Now wait just a goddam minute!

What the hell is this?....

a 1977 Mercedes 450 SL for $24,000?!!  Well, that's just TOO F-ING HIGH~  :smilielol: :smilielol: :smilielol:

Yessir, we're just blowing the living sh*t outta high prices!  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


Good clip.

ODZKing

Quote from: Aero426 on April 15, 2014, 09:34:31 AM
Quote from: TUFCAT on April 14, 2014, 07:01:20 PM
Quote from: bill440rt on April 14, 2014, 06:30:59 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqHZWdFVyyQ&noredirect=1

Great Movie
Now wait just a goddam minute!

What the hell is this?....

a 1977 Mercedes 450 SL for $24,000?!!  Well, that's just TOO F-ING HIGH~  :smilielol: :smilielol: :smilielol:

Yessir, we're just blowing the living sh*t outta high prices!  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


Good clip.


ODZKing


Homerr

Envy of flippers has nothing to do with it, that's just way off base.  Disdain comes to mind however.


It's really that the prices of this hobby don't have to be so high, but flippers inflate everything.... I'll guess 30%.  I don't know exactly the total sum that the Mopar hobby is worth each year, so I'll look at $1m slice.  I would suggest that for every $1 million in activity in the hobby the reality is $700k of activity + $300k profits taken by flippers.  I'll further guess that $200k of that $300k profit leaves the hobby and never returns.  We all make up for it by paying a little more.  Basically, too much profit within a system causes inflation.

It's just like Wall Street traders making money every time your money moves around.  There is not really any care that they are skimming off the top of your retirement fund.  A little here, a little there.  Traders exercising 'profit taking' is a maneuver to take your investment and turn that money in to their profit.  They take that money out of the system.  They deserve to get paid, sure, but the scale that they push the system and their own egos is over the top.

The attitude of 'F U I got mine' seems to translate well between Wall Street and flippers.

I think, by definition, the hobbyists here earn money elsewhere and bring that money in to the hobby for the sake of doing it, for the love of craft, for sentimental value.  Not for the sake of profit.  Those expecting to make their money within the hobby are driving the price of everything related to the hobby up while financing their own projects.  And there are those that show up in this hobby realm and make a deal and get out - and that money is gone from the hobby forever.  Finally, as there are many hobbyists which bring a 'money pit' in to this hobby space and lose money - but not enough to balance out the prices going up.


And just to be clear - I would not define anything adding value to a car as flipping.  A $1000 car sitting in a barn that is found, negotiated, towed, cleaned up, advertised, and sold has had value added.  It's subjective, but maybe a seller listing it at $1800-2000 is okay if the car is brought to the market and added to the pool of cars in the hobby - that's between the buyer and seller to work out.  If you've garaged a $5,000 Hemi Charger for the last 30 years and now want to sell it for $100k - go for it, you were a caretaker of the car and deserve to get paid.  Not everyone that made a decent profit is a flipper.

'Flipping' to me implies intent to resell with a high markup without adding value.