Sway bar frame drilling on a very original 68

[familymopar]

I have read a few posts here about Hotchkis rear sway bars requiring frame drilling.  As a matter of fact they were in my shopping cart when I read about the drilling and I have yet to order them because of it. 

Here is my situation:  I have a 68 charger R/T that was found all original and bought from the original owner in the early 90's.  All numbers matching, original sheet metal (except floor/trunk pans,), all original glass (except windshield).  It was in a barn but was in really great original shape.  Second owner drove it like that for some time.  Second owner then did a meticulous nut and bolt restoration that took him 7 years.  He painstakingly restored to stock with some exceptions, i.e. motor guts, added a tic toc tach, added a suregrip, 14" to 15" wheels, added discs in the front.  These are things that the original owner told second owner he wished he had ordered.  Car appears, and drives, like a 40+ year old bone stock charger.  I am third owner.

I drive the car a lot and like to drive it pretty hard, no racing or anything, but I drive it the way I think it deserves to be driven.   That being said, I have decided to upgrade much of the steering, suspension, and other small amenities to make it a more realistic driver for me.  In doing so, I do not want to affect the "integrity" of the car and intend to only do things that could be undone back to stock if any future owner wishes to (in the likelihood that I die first and my family sells the car I suppose).  I keep every part that comes off of the car and it will all go with the car wherever she may go in the future.

So this long post is really to ask this:  Is there a matched sway bar set that anyone would recommend that I can install that will not require frame drilling?  Or, is there a kit/method to install the Hotchkis that does not require drilling?

The length of this post is also an invitation for comment on what I am doing as well as suggestions.  I intend to entirely upgrade the suspension and steering linkages, followed by brakes (which will require me to upsize wheels and tires from my 15" magnums).

I clearly feel guilty taking this very original specimen and doing this to her.  But I own it and I want to love driving it (more).

All ideas and opinions welcome.

[tan top]

   

mine was a unrestored two owner ,  63 thousand mile car Texas car  , when I got it 25 ish years ago ! not the original motor though, that was blown up in the late 70s I believe .
mine needed trunk &  2 front & one rear floor pans , ( no full length or whole ones repoped then )  lower rear quarters & rear lower panel plus corners ( only needed patches but while your there might as well put lowers on  ) & bit of plating at the rear window channel area, fabricated new trunk gutters  . all the panels were original ! to the car . apart from those areas . the rest was like a 3 year old car underneath  no joke  !, & would not believe those areas could of been rotted , looking at the rest   .
 at the time I was doing the nut & bolt resto ,  welded in torque boxes , & hemi only rear leaf spring shackle  hanger ,   reinforcement plates , 2"x2" box frame connectors ,  , then front & rear Addco sway bars  .   then run out of dough to build the motor I originally wanted   will do one day !!
not that it matters as i'm never going to sell , but I done all this to a Charger that have never seen or heard of another with the same color combination in 25 years of looking  
 
seeing as yours needed welding & not a virgin car if you know what I mean  , don't give it another thought  , drill it  !!  but if it was an all original unrestored  charger  like the one  MTD (my turbins dirty ) has just bought ( see show us your 69 charger thread )  , its the ( Y3 tan interior & top , original paint unrestored ! would say its a definite no , !
 

[sanders7981]

DRILL IIIIT!!!  Can't say that I know of any kit that out that would not require some form of drilling into the frame.  If you want to go back to stock, and wanted no evidence of hole in the frame, you can always weld them in.   

[familymopar]

I get y'all's point, drilling in to that frame just gnaws at me though.  Truth be told, I was trying to save you from a wall of text, there are other little things here and there that are not done "as original".  Even though the quarters are original, there is a patch in the lower rear portions.  I also forgot to mention that the flat panel right below the rear window in front of the trunk lid was replaced.  No one made them at the time and so it had to be fabricated.  What do you call that little panel anyway?  There, now all the rest of the steal is original.

The restorer/second owner did take some liberties, as I mentioned in the first post and there are other minor things here or there.  He still picked up several trophies for "restored original" though.  None of the suspension is actually "original".  It is a mix of swap meet original, nos, and actual original, just restored to oem specs.  With the exception of the steel and windshield mentioned above, everything he did to the car, whether it rolled off the line with it or not, was done with correct era parts, etc.  Everything.

This has been a problem that I have had with this car so far.  I really wanted a documented matching R/T.  Now that I have her I am afraid to do what I want to.  I want to weld in TB's and SFC's to stiffen up, modernize the suspension, steering, braking, etc. but I don't want to take away from the car.  I did not buy the car to invest or collect, I bought it to share with my son and drive the hell out of it.  But now that I have it I am afraid to be welding and changing things.  Not for my sake, return on investment is of little interest to me, but for the car's sake.  That sounds dumb, but it's true.

I think I may have just answered my own question.  I guess I'll drill it.  Once I shove a drill bit through her frame I think I will feel as though I can do just about anything to her.  After all, that's why I bought the car.  I suppose I don't "owe" anything to the next generation to feel the need to preserve the car, sure feels like it sometimes though.

All opinions still welcome

[sanders7981]

The panel you are referring to below the rear window is the Dutchman panel. 

Don't worry about drilling it, I understand the "want" in keeping it as original a possible, but you're really not going to hurt anything by drilling to the rail to upgrade the suspension.  It's definitely worth the trade off. 

[cdr]

drill it ,then drill an extra hole ,that will make ya feel better. 

[1974dodgecharger]

I wouldnt drill your car 8 w9uld put in a garage and leave it alone for 25 more years...then by then there should no drilling

[myk]

'OP, have you crawled underneath your car, especially where those sway bar brackets go?  There's already a series of holes down there; I'm thinking at least six, so what's two more going to hurt?  I do understand what you're saying though.  Even I, the loudest proponent of resto-modification, hesitated for a good half hour underneath the car, reluctant to drill into my vintage frame...

[familymopar]

'OP, have you crawled underneath your car, especially where those sway bar brackets go?  There's already a series of holes down there; I'm thinking at least six, so what's two more going to hurt?  I do understand what you're saying though.  Even I, the loudest proponent of resto-modification, hesitated for a good half hour underneath the car, reluctant to drill into my vintage frame...

Yea I hear you, I have just been reluctant to do it.  I have had Chargers that I would drill the hell out of and never think twice.  It's just this one.  The guy before me did such a nice job and definitely took it in a particular direction.  I am sure I will end up drilling it, it just won't feel that good while doing it.  I'm sure I will get over it quickly.  Glad I am not the only one who is apprehensive about drilling those holes.

The panel you are referring to below the rear window is the Dutchman panel. 

Don't worry about drilling it, I understand the "want" in keeping it as original a possible, but you're really not going to hurt anything by drilling to the rail to upgrade the suspension.  It's definitely worth the trade off. 

Thanks sanders.  When I posted that I was thinking it had slipped my mind and I just couldn't think of it.   Now that I know I am pretty sure that I never did know.  I think I always called it the deck panel.  Glad to know now!

drill it ,then drill an extra hole ,that will make ya feel better. 

I wouldnt drill your car 8 w9uld put in a garage and leave it alone for 25 more years...then by then there should no drilling

Both of these are tempting ideas.

[bill440rt]

I have had Chargers that I would drill the hell out of and never think twice.  It's just this one. 

That says something there, I can relate for sure.
Some cars it doesn't bother you a bit to modify here & there, cut, drill, install aftermarket goodies, etc. But then this one comes along that is done right, looks very correct, so you don't want to touch it. You somehow just appreciate it more, right?
I will say that the Hotchkis bar is a very nice piece, but an Addco bar or one from Just Suspension, etc might have a more "stock" appearing look to it. I'm sure you'll have to drill holes for them too, though.
You could always install a beefier front bar, disguise it to look stock, and leave the rear bar off so you don't have to drill holes. Just a thought.
Usually I leave cars like that alone, that's just me. If it irked me that much to drill or modify it, I probably wouldn't do it. Ultimately it's your car.

[familymopar]

I have had Chargers that I would drill the hell out of and never think twice.  It's just this one. 

That says something there, I can relate for sure.
Some cars it doesn't bother you a bit to modify here & there, cut, drill, install aftermarket goodies, etc. But then this one comes along that is done right, looks very correct, so you don't want to touch it. You somehow just appreciate it more, right?
I will say that the Hotchkis bar is a very nice piece, but an Addco bar or one from Just Suspension, etc might have a more "stock" appearing look to it. I'm sure you'll have to drill holes for them too, though.
You could always install a beefier front bar, disguise it to look stock, and leave the rear bar off so you don't have to drill holes. Just a thought.
Usually I leave cars like that alone, that's just me. If it irked me that much to drill or modify it, I probably wouldn't do it. Ultimately it's your car.

That's exactly right.  Insofar as other bars, I am not too worried about it not appearing stock underneath because if I do any of it I am doing all of it, UCA's, SFC's, TB's, the whole alphabet.  And not appearing stock down there doesn't bother me so much.  Same with wheels and tires.  I am not entering any shows or anything like that.  I am looking to dramatically increase handling performance.  So the look of the bar won't bother me.  My hang up is with doing anything that can not be completely undone, i.e. welding SFC's and drilling for a rear bar, etc. in case I (unlikely) or anyone else ever wanted to return the car to completely stock condition.  For me, I know what it needs to drastically increase my enjoyment of it.  And in the battle between the pleasure of standing about discussing its originality and enjoying staring at it and the pleasure of getting it out, opening it up, and enjoying driving it, driving it will always win.  I am just hoping to do so with as little "permanent" modification as possible.

I have always been under the impression that a beefy front bar and no rear bar would throw your balance off and leave you with a severe understeer/oversteer problem.  Maybe I should look into that more.

I think it irks me that it irks me as much as it actually irks me.

[myk]

'OP, have you crawled underneath your car, especially where those sway bar brackets go?  There's already a series of holes down there; I'm thinking at least six, so what's two more going to hurt?  I do understand what you're saying though.  Even I, the loudest proponent of resto-modification, hesitated for a good half hour underneath the car, reluctant to drill into my vintage frame...

Yea I hear you, I have just been reluctant to do it.  I have had Chargers that I would drill the hell out of and never think twice.  It's just this one.  The guy before me did such a nice job and definitely took it in a particular direction.  I am sure I will end up drilling it, it just won't feel that good while doing it.  I'm sure I will get over it quickly.  Glad I am not the only one who is apprehensive about drilling those holes.

Brother. The first time you take that freeway on/off ramp at a speed that would put stock R/T's and other muscle cars into the bushes, you'll forget about those holes...

[familymopar]

Brother. The first time you take that freeway on/off ramp at a speed that would put stock R/T's and other muscle cars into the bushes, you'll forget about those holes...

I had a feeling that would be the case.  And that is what I am looking for.  Holes will be drilled.

[Dino]

It's two holes, very easily welded shut if you ever want to revert back to stock.  The car is no longer original, two holes are not going to make it worse.  It had way bigger holes in it when they replaced the trunk floor. 

Also realize that a rear sway bar is really not necessary for most.  I drive my car hard, drove it insanely hard when my wife needed to go to the hospital and the last thing on my mind was a rear sway bar.  I was still running 14" bicycle tires and the car behaved real nice at serious speed.  The only drawback I remember was the over-assisted power steering.