3d printing

[green69rt]

nihil,  how does the finish look on the end product?  I talked to a guy doing some car parts and one problem he had was getting the part ready for paint, it took considerabla sanding.  The other problem with our grills is the size of the parts, machines are getting bigger but that means more cost.  Just batting the idea around....

[nihil]

The finish varies depending on nozzle size, layer height, type of filament, temperature and speed you print at, and of course the quality of the mechanics moving the nozzle around. I typically print at a 0.2mm layer height, as it's a nice balance between speed and quality.

I recently did some tail light housings for the G, but due to their size I had to print them up on end. Since I used ABS, and the woman came home and opened the back door, it caused some asymmetric cooling of the part mid-print that resulted in some cracking/layer separation. I wasn't too bothered since I was going to finish them anyway. Sand it enough to give it a nice key, hit it with some sandable primer, and I ended up going with a spray on rubberized type coating. But pictures can show the difference a lot better than words will. Apologies for the large pictures, but it's the best way to see detail.

Before finishing:


And after finishing:


Cheapo DOT approved LED modules from HF, several hours in design, and several more hours printing, and I ended up with something I think looks a lot better than the $500+ aftermarket LED lights available for that truck. I prefer a more utilitarian look for a utilitarian vehicle, and the aftermarket stuff was "bling" and trashy looking.

There are other ways to finish parts, and for ABS you can achieve an interesting effect with an acetone vapor bath. Put the part in an enclosed container with some acetone, heat it, and let the evaporated acetone evenly eat away the outer layers of the part. Here's a good example of layer height vs. acetone vapor:


I generally prefer ABS or nylon for automotive use, as PLA (polylactic acid) is biodegradable and wont hold up to the elements as well.


Size is a definite concern. I have one of the larger hobby grade printers on the market, and if I were to print a grille for my Mopar, I would do it in multiple prints, then bond the pieces together using ABS as an adhesion agent. Instead of acting like a glue, it melts the plastic and evaporates, leaving the resulting joint stronger than the rest of the part. Careful application keeps it looking seamless. A full grille print would probably take a week or more. Those two tail light housings took around 24 hours, and I have my machine set up and tweaked to print faster than most.

[ws23rt]

  Thanks for your post.  This is something that will move faster as time passes.

[Windsor]

While I don't know much about the process, I do see a market for it in the future. Cars like my '40 are hard to find parts for, and a few guys that I know are missing dash trim. I looked into having a shop CNC some, using mine for measurements, then they quoted me $1300 per piece (gauge trim). That put an end to that idea.
I watched Jeff Dunham: Birth of a Dummy. He had a cool laser scanner that scanned a model and loaded it onto a computer which allowed for tweaking size and design. Something like that would be really cool to do custom work on the parts.

[nihil]

Thanks for your post.  This is something that will move faster as time passes.

It's gaining momentum at probably the most impressive pace of any new technology I've ever seen. I typically adopt new technologies early. Assuming patent trolls (*cough*makerbot,stratasys,3ds*cough*) don't ruin it, 3D printing will be a game changer.

While I don't know much about the process, I do see a market for it in the future. Cars like my '40 are hard to find parts for, and a few guys that I know are missing dash trim. I looked into having a shop CNC some, using mine for measurements, then they quoted me $1300 per piece (gauge trim). That put an end to that idea.
I watched Jeff Dunham: Birth of a Dummy. He had a cool laser scanner that scanned a model and loaded it onto a computer which allowed for tweaking size and design. Something like that would be really cool to do custom work on the parts.

I've built a couple laser scanners, and while they definitely have a cool factor, they can be a pain in the ass if you don't scan in a controlled environment. Unless of course you want to fork out a sizable amount of cash on the bleeding edge commercial hardware.

[cudaken]

If you watch Jay Leno Garage you will see what he has done with them. I am sure Jay has the highest end stuff that can be bought!

Cuda Ken

[meryan00]

I figured I should put my input into here as well, overall I agree very much with what nihil has said.  I run a 3d printing and laser cutting side business.  I run 2 printers right now, both from Makerstoolworks, with a 3rd being built from parts.  

While size is the immediate concern for most car parts simple because cars have so many large parts, the sheer number of options available you can print is staggering,  Material choice would of course depend on your application and what kind of temperatures or elements the material comes in contact with.  For example ABS is a ideal easy to print material that can be smoothed with vapor then clear matte sprayed for a smooth non gloss finish with minimal work, If however you need something for example to put in an engine bay then ABS and Nylon may not be able to hold up to the temp swing.  There is also a Polycarbonate material that can be printed and requires a 300C print temp which is over 570F so it is able to withstand those temps much better.

The scanning option is also a good in theory, I have built a Laser scanner and a projector based scanner to replicate parts.  Both can work well when done right, the main issue is that cars are lot of shiny surfaces and the scanners want a matte surface to reduce reflections and increase accuracy.  There are a few options to to that temporary but its never as good as actual spray paint.

Overall I love the 3dprinting community as there is a large sense of self-reliability and a huge acceptance of ideas from any member no matter the history.  For wanting to get into a new hobby it can be done for under $400, although that printer is only big enough to print toys really, takes more money to get one big enough to be useful in automotive.

[Windsor]

If you watch Jay Leno Garage you will see what he has done with them. I am sure Jay has the highest end stuff that can be bought!

Cuda Ken

He probably has stuff that can't be bought by anyone else.

[green69rt]

I figured I should put my input into here as well, overall I agree very much with what nihil has said.  I run a 3d printing and laser cutting side business.  I run 2 printers right now, both from Makerstoolworks, with a 3rd being built from parts.  

While size is the immediate concern for most car parts simple because cars have so many large parts, the sheer number of options available you can print is staggering,  Material choice would of course depend on your application and what kind of temperatures or elements the material comes in contact with.  For example ABS is a ideal easy to print material that can be smoothed with vapor then clear matte sprayed for a smooth non gloss finish with minimal work, If however you need something for example to put in an engine bay then ABS and Nylon may not be able to hold up to the temp swing.  There is also a Polycarbonate material that can be printed and requires a 300C print temp which is over 570F so it is able to withstand those temps much better.

The scanning option is also a good in theory, I have built a Laser scanner and a projector based scanner to replicate parts.  Both can work well when done right, the main issue is that cars are lot of shiny surfaces and the scanners want a matte surface to reduce reflections and increase accuracy.  There are a few options to to that temporary but its never as good as actual spray paint.

Overall I love the 3dprinting community as there is a large sense of self-reliability and a huge acceptance of ideas from any member no matter the history.  For wanting to get into a new hobby it can be done for under $400, although that printer is only big enough to print toys really, takes more money to get one big enough to be useful in automotive.

Interesting, I am only interested in the grills for a 69 Charger.  Center, headlight bezels headlight doors.  The center section seems the hardest to do so why not try for something simpler?  The headlight bezels are more simple, smallest of the parts.   Not a big demand but I bet a lot of folks would buy one if available??  How big would the printer need to be and would the final product be paint-able??? 

Yes, I have found out the print time counts, material counts, complexity counts...is a reproduction headlight bezel possible at a reasonable price???

[nihil]

If you watch Jay Leno Garage you will see what he has done with them. I am sure Jay has the highest end stuff that can be bought!

Cuda Ken

He probably has stuff that can't be bought by anyone else.

If I remember right, he's running a Dimension 1200 from Stratasys, then sends those parts out to be molded and cast. Same FDM process as mine and meryan00's printers, and probably only marginally better in quality, if even that. Cost, $30k or so.

[nihil]

Interesting, I am only interested in the grills for a 69 Charger.  Center, headlight bezels headlight doors.  The center section seems the hardest to do so why not try for something simpler?  The headlight bezels are more simple, smallest of the parts.   Not a big demand but I bet a lot of folks would buy one if available??  How big would the printer need to be and would the final product be paint-able??? 

Yes, I have found out the print time counts, material counts, complexity counts...is a reproduction headlight bezel possible at a reasonable price???

Depends on what you consider a reasonable price. Not sure what build area meryan00's machines have, but in my case I've got a build area that is a cylinder (delta configuration machine) of 300mm in diameter and about 330mm in height. If it can fit in that, it can be printed as a single piece.

Final product is entirely paint-able. With all the painted plastic on cars these days, finding someone who can properly prep it and choose the right paint should be easy.

[meryan00]

I figured I should put my input into here as well, overall I agree very much with what nihil has said.  I run a 3d printing and laser cutting side business.  I run 2 printers right now, both from Makerstoolworks, with a 3rd being built from parts.  

While size is the immediate concern for most car parts simple because cars have so many large parts, the sheer number of options available you can print is staggering,  Material choice would of course depend on your application and what kind of temperatures or elements the material comes in contact with.  For example ABS is a ideal easy to print material that can be smoothed with vapor then clear matte sprayed for a smooth non gloss finish with minimal work, If however you need something for example to put in an engine bay then ABS and Nylon may not be able to hold up to the temp swing.  There is also a Polycarbonate material that can be printed and requires a 300C print temp which is over 570F so it is able to withstand those temps much better.

The scanning option is also a good in theory, I have built a Laser scanner and a projector based scanner to replicate parts.  Both can work well when done right, the main issue is that cars are lot of shiny surfaces and the scanners want a matte surface to reduce reflections and increase accuracy.  There are a few options to to that temporary but its never as good as actual spray paint.

Overall I love the 3dprinting community as there is a large sense of self-reliability and a huge acceptance of ideas from any member no matter the history.  For wanting to get into a new hobby it can be done for under $400, although that printer is only big enough to print toys really, takes more money to get one big enough to be useful in automotive.

Interesting, I am only interested in the grills for a 69 Charger.  Center, headlight bezels headlight doors.  The center section seems the hardest to do so why not try for something simpler?  The headlight bezels are more simple, smallest of the parts.   Not a big demand but I bet a lot of folks would buy one if available??  How big would the printer need to be and would the final product be paint-able??? 

Yes, I have found out the print time counts, material counts, complexity counts...is a reproduction headlight bezel possible at a reasonable price???

I'm very familiar with the grill, and the headlight covers would be no to bad to do, but the center part is just to big to bdo in one piece.  Now for the main grill it could be designed to be printed in pieces and assembled strategically, so it is also possible.  The bezel finish might be the hardest to replicate, I would shave to look again to see.  

As for painting that works just fine on the plastic, or can be printed in a certain color. Honestly if I had one handy I could design it from measurements or scans, but just from the plastic cost I would assume that to be $200 not including finishing and painting so high, but not outrageous.  The one thing that is a benefit is if someone want to go custom instead of stock as with a printer you could change the slats to different direction, or perhaps embed a custom name or image. Basically lots of options then.

My big printer has a xyz print area of 225x325x220mm , so not really big enough to be used for to much in one part for the grill

[green69rt]

Interesting, I am only interested in the grills for a 69 Charger.  Center, headlight bezels headlight doors.  The center section seems the hardest to do so why not try for something simpler?  The headlight bezels are more simple, smallest of the parts.   Not a big demand but I bet a lot of folks would buy one if available??  How big would the printer need to be and would the final product be paint-able??? 

Yes, I have found out the print time counts, material counts, complexity counts...is a reproduction headlight bezel possible at a reasonable price???

Depends on what you consider a reasonable price. Not sure what build area meryan00's machines have, but in my case I've got a build area that is a cylinder (delta configuration machine) of 300mm in diameter and about 330mm in height. If it can fit in that, it can be printed as a single piece.

Final product is entirely paint-able. With all the painted plastic on cars these days, finding someone who can properly prep it and choose the right paint should be easy.

I don't know what the size is for a headlight bezel, but it seems to be the simplest to print.    A couple of hundred per side may be ok, really don't know.  My guess is 10 x 10 x 18 inches???