Coupe or hardtop?

[lloyd3]

I think I know the answer here, but is Charger a coupe or a 2-door hardtop? From my understanding of the word, a "coupe" has a door-pillar component that attaches to the roofline. I know that there were Super Bee and Roadrunner 2-door hardtops and pillar coupes, but I've never seen a Charger built that way. The reason for my question is a fairly-cheesy library book that my 10-year old just picked up that declares that the 1968 Charger is a coupe!  

An additional rant!  Our trip to the library was to get some books on tape (now Cd's) to listen-to while I drive across Nebraska and Iowa to pick up a dog (a hunting poodle to be exact).  The crap that goes for books and media these days absolutely astounds me! No wonder this country is full of lost souls, considering what I see them consuming for media in our local library. I wanted something benign or even historic to listen to, most of what I found was sex, murder, politics, hollywood fantasy, and soft-core porn. I was sorry I had my 10-year old with me as I waded through that section (I aimed him at the car section to ease my discomfort).  I ended up with some James Fennimore Cooper and a Newt Gingrich WWII historical novel, so it wasn't all-bad, but good grief!!!   How'd I get to be such a curmudgeon?

[twodko]

68-70 are coupes

[lloyd3]

Really? I'd of bet money it was a two-door hardtop.

[69CoronetRT]

68-70 are coupes

66-70 were HTs.
71-74 HT or coupe
75-78 HT

Wave when you go past IA exit 40. That should be right at 585 miles from Parker.

[twodko]

Learn something new everyday. 

[Mike DC]

 
Another term for these cars that you rarely hear anymore is "2dr sedan." 

I've heard younger guys ask, "But how can it be a sedan when it's only 2 doors?  Doesn't that make it a coupe?"

 

[jaak]

 
Another term for these cars that you rarely hear anymore is "2dr sedan."  

I've heard younger guys ask, "But how can it be a sedan when it's only 2 doors?  Doesn't that make it a coupe?"

 

I always thought a 2 door sedan was a 'post' car. The only Mopar I can think of off the top of my head is a valiant or dart 2 door post.



Jason

[six-tee-nine]

I know that there were B body's like RR or Sattelite's in 68/70 that were avail as a coupé like the Charger or with a window post.
The last ones could'nt roll the quarter window down but it popped out in the rear......cant explain that in any other way.....

[twodko]

 
[/quote]

I always thought a 2 door sedan was a 'post' car. The only Mopar I can think of off the top of my head is a valiant or dart 2 door post.

Me too. Prime example is tri-five Chevys. If they have a post they're a sedan, not as desirable or pricey. No post makes them a coupe and a lot more desirable and spendy.
That how Gm described them in ads back in the day.

[ODZKing]

My understanding was hardtop = no post, Sedan = post
A coupe doesn't necessarily mean either. I have seen both where I believe a coupe means the quarter window is stationary. Does not go up and down.
I know in 73-4 the Charger coupe window did not go down. However I have a WP29 which is an SE with the louvers.
That is not a coupe but considered a two door sports hardtop.  Go figure!!!!!   

[Homerr]

coupe = 2 doors
sedan = 4 doors

hardtop = no B pillar (no post)
post = B pillar

Compare:

'4-door hardtop' or 'hardtop sedan'


sedan


'2-door hardtop' or 'hardtop coupe'

[69CoronetRT]

coupe = 2 doors
sedan = 4 doors

hardtop = no B pillar (no post)
post = B pillar

[John_Kunkel]

I think the coupe/hardtop name is up to the manufacturer; in common usage a coupe has a post but, by definition, any enclosed 2-door is a coupe.

[c00nhunterjoe]

I beleive my XP29 vin decodes as a "2 door sports hardtop" if i recall

[68pplcharger]

Agreed it's different for each manufacture. GM a coupe was without a post and a sedan had the post. That is the way it works with Chevelles and the 55,56,57's

[69CoronetRT]

I think the coupe/hardtop name is up to the manufacturer; in common usage a coupe has a post but, by definition, any enclosed 2-door is a coupe.

It seems to be more the function of the back window.

If the rear has a roll down window with a full frame, they tend to be called sedans (like the 2 or 4 doors pictured above)

Fixed or limited function rear windows (like Super Bees, Road Runners with pop out windows) tend to be called Coupes.
A traditional metal B pillar post is not necessarily required to be designated a coupe (think WL21 71-74 Charger or RM21 73-74 Road Runners)

No B pillar with fully up/down functional windows tend to be called hard tops.

The 'names' of the different configurations have changed over the last 100+ years of making cars and I don't think the designations are hard and fast rules anymore.

[Cooter]

I think the coupe/hardtop name is up to the manufacturer; in common usage a coupe has a post but, by definition, any enclosed 2-door is a coupe.

Agreed. I think "Coupe" and "hdtop" are just nothing but sales gimmicks to make the same cars appear different.
my Charger is titled as a 2dr hatchback...

[hemihead]

68-70 's were Hardtops . Sorry . 
Coupes have a stationary or Flip - out 1/4 window with a post .  Hardtops  1/4 window rolls down , no post  . Sedans have a post and the door s have a window frame .

[68X426]

Convertibles have no identity crisis.

[odcics2]

  "XX29"  =  "Fast top"

           

[ODZKing]

But again as mentioned previously as in the picture below, 73-4 coupes had a window but it didn't roll down.
That is why it's up on the brochure.

[fy469rtse]

I agree with you Tom, glad John piped in , it's a coupe
Two door , no B pillar , no frame to window to door , pillar less its a coupe, 

[68pplcharger]

A sedan /sɨˈdæn/ (American, Canadian, Australian and New Zealand English) or saloon (British and Irish English) is a passenger car in a three-box configuration with A, B & C-pillars and principal volumes articulated in separate compartments for engine, passenger and cargo.[1]

A coupé or coupe (from the French past participle coupé, of the infinitive couper, to cut) is a closed two-door car body stylewith a permanently attached fixed roof. The precise definition of the term varies between manufacturers and over time.[1]

A hardtop is a term for a rigid, rather than canvas, automobile roof. It has been used in several contexts: detachable hardtops, retractable hardtop roofs, and the so-called pillarless hardtop body style.
Among the modern body designs is the two- or four-door hardtop that typically "does not have a center pillar" and requires additional reinforcement compared to similar sedan styles for support in rollover situations.[1]

Taken from Wiki... for a little more clarity

[Nacho-RT74]

the B pillar on 3rd gens is simulated by the molding on the FIXED quarter glass, but with rolled up quarter glass from a hardtop, is imposible to say which one is "coupe" or hardtop... except getting closer and check there is not a crank.

only rear coupe by definition on Chargers are the 73/74 SE, which actually got a real B pillar, althought structurally is not a big deal

[69CoronetRT]

only rear coupe by definition on Chargers are the 73/74 SE, which actually got a real B pillar, althought structurally is not a big deal

[ODZKing]

  69CoronetRT
Anything with a fixed window was considered a coupe except the SE.
For some reason Chrysler considered that a hardtop.
Here is the rest of that page.

[69CoronetRT]

Here's why the SE is considered a HT.

While standard, the louvers were considered part of the standard vinyl roof and, I'm guessing here, an extension of the C pillar, not as 'rear windows' per se.
You could opt for the halo roof which gives you a traditional HT look.
The BIW would be a HT configuration.

[ODZKing]

Here's why the SE is considered a HT.

While standard, the louvers were considered part of the standard vinyl roof and, I'm guessing here, an extension of the C pillar, not as 'rear windows' per se.
You could opt for the halo roof which gives you a traditional HT look.
The BIW would be a HT configuration.

Best explanation I have heard. 

[Nacho-RT74]

only REAL coupe by definition on Chargers are the 73/74 SE, which actually got a real B pillar, althought structurally is not a big deal

sorry... I meant REAL no rear.

I keep my statement, coupes by automovile definitions usally stands for a 2 doors car with B pillar post and opera window or pop up glass

Hardtops are B pillarless

after that we have what diff cars brands wanted to meant about that. Myself I can't consider a 73/74 SE as a hardtop, or even a simply fixed glass car as a coupe just because the simulated B pillar due the molding on glass. I think the diff uses of hardtop or coupes definition on Chargers at least was to set a diff price class, but not really what structurally really is.

of course, later Charger models ( 5th gen ) are also Coupes my automotive industry definition.

[Nacho-RT74]

Here's why the SE is considered a HT.

While standard, the louvers were considered part of the standard vinyl roof and, I'm guessing here, an extension of the C pillar, not as 'rear windows' per se.
You could opt for the halo roof which gives you a traditional HT look.
The BIW would be a HT configuration.

Best explanation I have heard. 

but remove the louvers which is not more than an insert and the B pillar is there

or lets talk about the M07 code on 74s... which are the same than a SE but without louvers.

once again, I think is a matter of price class on Chargers which defines the hardtop or coupe, but not really what structurally is

[69CoronetRT]

I think is a matter of price class on Chargers which defines the hardtop or coupe, but not really what structurally is

Other way around.
Structure defines the price class. Coupes and sedans are 'lower' price classes than HTs.
WL21<WP23

[Nacho-RT74]

yeap, but what I meant is the SE being REALLY a coupe, is defined on sales books as a Hardtop... then we have the real hardtops with roll down glass, then the coupes with fixed windows which actually is ALSO a hardtop, just with quarter glass allways rolled up... can we really say the quarter glass molding is REALLY a B pillar? just remove the glass and you won't find any pillar...

now remove the louvers, and will get allways a B pillar there... in fact REMOVE THE GLASS TOO ( and body filler insert ), and the B pillar is still there, although really doesn't make anything important to the body strenght

they are from top price to bottom in the order I posted as hardtop-hardtop-coupe, but structurally they are really allmost backwards

being objective structurally we can't  put side by side a 73/74SE as a hardtop just because we can think the louvers and rest of parts as part of the C pillar, like the second gens camaros, with no quarter glass, and just the C pillar... you know what I meant ?

[69CoronetRT]

yeap, but what I meant is the SE being REALLY a coupe, is defined on sales books as a Hardtop... then we have the real hardtops with roll down glass, then the coupes with fixed windows which actually is ALSO a hardtop, just with quarter glass allways rolled up... can we really say the quarter glass molding is REALLY a B pillar? just remove the glass and you won't find any pillar...

now remove the louvers, and will get allways a B pillar there... in fact REMOVE THE GLASS TOO ( and body filler insert ), and the B pillar is still there, although really doesn't make anything important to the body strenght

they are from top price to bottom in the order I posted as hardtop-hardtop-coupe, but structurally they are really allmost backwards

being objective structurally we can't  put side by side a 73/74SE as a hardtop just because we can think the louvers and rest of parts as part of the C pillar, like the second gens camaros, with no quarter glass, and just the C pillar... you know what I meant ?

No and I don't think you, I and Chrysler will agree on this.

[VegasCharger]

yeap, but what I meant is the SE being REALLY a coupe, is defined on sales books as a Hardtop... then we have the real hardtops with roll down glass, then the coupes with fixed windows which actually is ALSO a hardtop, just with quarter glass allways rolled up... can we really say the quarter glass molding is REALLY a B pillar? just remove the glass and you won't find any pillar...


they are from top price to bottom in the order I posted as hardtop-hardtop-coupe, but structurally now remove the louvers, and will get allways a B pillar there... in fact REMOVE THE GLASS TOO ( and body filler insert ), and the B pillar is still there, although really doesn't make anything important to the body strenght
they are really allmost backwards

being objective structurally we can't  put side by side a 73/74SE as a hardtop just because we can think the louvers and rest of parts as part of the C pillar, like the second gens camaros, with no quarter glass, and just the C pillar... you know what I meant ?

Pics to better help Nacho's statement  
Sorry about pic #2 it's the best one I could find with glass still installed but w/o the louvers.
This was of my parting out my '73 SE

PIC 1 Louver, Glass & Plug

PIC 2 Glass & Plug

PIC 3 Plug Removal

PIC 4 Plug Stand Alone

PIC 5 Quarter Window Area Structure