Rear sway bar

[twodko]

How long will it take to install a Hotchkiss rear sway bar kit?

[bill440rt]

If you take your time? An hour & a half.

[twodko]

Next question....

Time to install a basic power disk brake conversion on a factory power drum car?

[bill440rt]

Depends. Which kit?

The MPB kit comes pre-assembled, so if you had all the other parts maybe an afternoon or so? (Mine took longer, I had to wait for a new brake line. Plus I had a problem with one caliper.)

Other kits may require assembly, which would take longer. (Weekend, perhaps??)

Whatever I'm doing, I prefer to take my time with each step. So, maybe I work slower. 

[twodko]

Thanks Bill.

Here's whats happening. I ordered the MP Brake Legend kit and a Hotchkis rear sway bar kit.
Both of which will be delivered to the only shop I let touch my car if it's something beyond
my skill sets. I could do the sway bar but not the disks.
He's a great guy and does top notch work. Labor rates in northern PRK are all about the same.
He gets $115 hr and told me it would probably be about a grand to install the brakes.
I bought MPB because of their rep, I had one of their kits before and some components do indeed
come pre-assembled.
Maybe I can get away with a grand for both installs.

We're all entitled to our fantasies. 

[bill440rt]

 

[twodko]

The OO I bought the car from put on a new front sway bar just before I took possession of it in 2009.
He says the R/T's didn't need a rear sway bar because they are R/T cars. This car does not have the Trac Pack
option or a Dana 60 so what am I missing?

[cdr]

an rt came with hd leaf springs is the only difference.

[twodko]

Pardon my ignorance here but I'm still unclear as to whether the addition of a rear sway bar will improve my car's handling or not or make no appreciable difference.

[Mike DC]

 
A matched set of aftermarket front & rear swaybars would be a big help. 

Just adding the rear one alone is not a great idea though.  It would upset the front/rear balance and make the car more likely to fishtail (yes, a stiffer REAR bar increases fishtailing).   

[twodko]

Got it, thanks Mike. I should be in good shape then adding this new rear bar to work with the existing front sway bar.

[bill440rt]

Tom, what's nice about the Hotchkis rear bar is that it is ADJUSTABLE. 3 different stiffness settings.
Mine is set in the middle to give a good balance with the Hotchkis front bar. If you find that yours is too stiff for your liking you can go to a lower setting. 

[twodko]

I was beginning to second guess my decision to buy a rear sway bar just because the car already had one in the front.

The disk kit should arrive at the shop next week mid and I'll be eager to drive next weekend!

[Mike DC]

 
A stock front bar & aftermarket rear bar may work well if the aftermarket one isn't too stiff.  But bear in mind that many aftermarket rear ones were designed to be part of a matched set with both ends stiffer than stock, so pairing it with a stock front bar might not be the match they intended.

It's good to stiffen up both ends of the car with swaybars but just don't get the proportions of F/R stiffness too out of whack with each other.  The total stiffness at each end is also affected by the leafs/T-bars and the designs of the suspensions.



 

[twodko]

When I bought the car from the OO in 2009 part of the deal was a finished/overhauled drive train.
I had him install a FirmFeel II steering box and a 1⅛" FirmFeel front sway bar.

I have an inquiry in with FirmFeel regarding the compatibility with the Hotchkis 1" 3way adjustable
rear sway bar. With factory R/T HD rear springs I think I'm good to go especially with the adjustability
of this Hotchkis rear bar.

If FF doesn't make the right noises I can always return the Hotchkis and go with a FF bar.

[sanders7981]

Not sure about the MP kit, but I did my own four disk conversion using Right Stuff brakes... Took me a couple hours, but was fairly easy. 

[twodko]

Man, I'd imagine 4 wheel disk brakes must be sweeeet.

[sanders7981]

Man, I'd imagine 4 wheel disk brakes must be sweeeet.

I'll let you know when I get my drive train in...    still in the resto-process. 

[myk]

I just installed a rear Hotchkis bar on my car, along with a new Hotchkis front sway bar and matching Hotchkis shocks.  Just installing the rear 'sway made a big difference in handling.  I could speed into turns and hold the car flatter than I ever could with that rear sway bar.  The most difficult, and time consuming part of the install was getting the nerve to drill two holes into my frame; I just didn't want to do it.  But now that the bar is on there, I'm berating myself for not having done it sooner.  

Anyone who says that the "R/T" cars don't need a rear sway bar has never driven their car in anything other than a straight line...

[twodko]

Myk, this is the response I received from FirmFeel yesterday. I'm not sure hat he means by "loose"?
My driving is the once or twice weekend cruise and going to car shows. Perhaps this idea of installing a rear bar
is really unnecessary. 

"Hi Tom,
  Although the Hotchkis parts look good, I haven't used any of the their
parts, so I can't accurately comment on them.  We used to sell adjustable
rear bars, but there just wasn't much call for them, except from a few in
the racing crowd.  We've sold a lot of our own front and rear bar
combinations (usually 1-1/8" front with 3/4" rear; or 1-1/4" front with
either 3/4" or 7/8" rear) and they work well together.  We've had good luck
"tuning" the rear bar using stacked end link bushings in place of the sleeve
on the end links.  We have a kit that contains several different end link
bushings of different sizes and hardness that offer variations of rate.
My only concern would be with the 1.0" rear bar being too stiff and making
the car too loose and dangerous to drive (especially when getting on the gas
when hitting an on-ramp to the freeway, or similar situation).  Otherwise,
if you can tune it to where it has the right rate you need, I see no
problems with using it in conjunction with our front sway bar"

[bill440rt]

If the rear bar is too stiff the rear end will be "loose". Meaning, it has a greater chance of breaking loose & sliding in a turn. I think this would happen if you're really hammering it, not in normal driving when turning.
The Hotchkis rear bar works well in the mid-setting with their front bar, which measures 1-3/8" in diameter. My hunch is if you also leave it at that setting, or go 1 setting less, it would work well with the 1-1/8" front bar.

[twodko]

OK, now I understand the "loose" meaning. Thank you. Seems I should be fine setting the bar to its least firm position.
My only nagging concern now is if I ordered the correct disk brake kit from MPB. Their tech help/sales guy,
Eric is great to work with. The only thing he asked me was if I was going from OEM power drums to their
power disk kit and I am. Reading a "heads up" on the FF site it says this....

"For cars without Factory sway bar brackets add $25. This alternative kit will clear front-mounted calipers when using later disc brake conversions on '62-'69 cars."

If I'm reading this correctly the kit will work with the bar as is.

[bill440rt]

It should.
Chargers came with front sway bars so your lower control arms would already have the brackets. 

[Dino]

Tom you do not need a rear sway bar.  It won't hurt, but it's not needed on a Sunday driver.  I have a 1-1/8" bar up front and will install my 7/8" rear this year but even now the car tracks great.  I just have the kit as it came with the car which is why I want to try it.

[myk]

If the rear bar is too stiff the rear end will be "loose". Meaning, it has a greater chance of breaking loose & sliding in a turn. I think this would happen if you're really hammering it, not in normal driving when turning.
The Hotchkis rear bar works well in the mid-setting with their front bar, which measures 1-3/8" in diameter. My hunch is if you also leave it at that setting, or go 1 setting less, it would work well with the 1-1/8" front bar.

Yeah I've been thinking about this a lot; I've been driving the car very aggressively lately and can't help but wonder if I'm reaching the limits of my current setup.  I wish I had a safe track or other proving ground to actually determine where the breaking point is .  'OP I still say go for it; if you don't like it you can always disconnect the rear bar, but I wouldn't buy the 1" Hotchkis rear bar without the matching 1-3/8 bar up front...

[twodko]

Hey Myk and Dino,

After giving this a lot of though the last few days and reading all of your comments (gawd I love this forum!)
I'm going to pass on installing this kit. This is the kit:

Hotchkis 2255R Performance Rear Sway Bar

Because I buy a good deal of stuff on Amazon I received some kinda good customer discount on this kit, read: spends a lot of money here.     Cost me $155.00

It's supposed to arrive Tuesday so if I have to send it back on my dime it would be pricey. My options are to refuse the delivery, sell it on CL or hope Amazon will give me a prepaid return shipping label.  

[myk]

Sounds to me like you may as well install it!   

[twodko]

Good morning Myk,

I'm trying not to vacillate on do or don't. What really put me off was when you mentioned getting
the heebie geebies drilling holes in the frame rails.  Yikes!
I'll probably wait to see how much the bill is for the brake kit install later this week. Maybe I can
swing another hour and a half labor cost to have it put on. 

Bummer discovery yesterday......I was driving over for my weekly P in L visit and heard
this sound like an unhappy wheel bearing on my 2009 2wd Dodge Ram 1500. Crap!
I'm taking it to the shop in a while to see whats up with that.

On another note in another thread you posted up a pix of your Charger at sunset yesterday.
Sweeeeeet!
Did you change out the passenger sided burned out TL bulb? 

[twodko]

Relieved......... pinion bearing nut on my 2009 Ram had backed off a bit.
All mo betta.

[bill440rt]

Tom, drilling the hole in the rail is not a big deal as you may think. IIRC it was a 3/8" hole or something?
There's a small bracket for the sway bar link that gets fished thru the rail. It's basically a flat piece of metal with a stud on each side. It gets fished up thru one hole, then one of the studs comes thru the second hole that is drilled.
Here is a pic of it installed, this was taken when I was putting my car together.

[myk]

It's a 1/2" hole, and like Bill said it's no big deal.  Just be sure to start out with a smaller sized bit, then keep enlarging it until you have a 1/2" hole. 

[twodko]

Thanks you guys. Bill, your car must be gorgeous!

I recently installed a pair of straight Westin oval step bars on my Ram.
The bracket fastener plates were these oblong thingys that had a welded nut
on one end and a threaded stud on the other.
You had to fish them through existing body holes and the brackets bolted to them.

Sounds like the Hotchkis thingy may be similar. It's getting harder to think about sending
this bar back. 

[Sublime/Sixpack]

twodko,
FWIW Recently I installed "Firm Feels" front 1 1/8" bar, and their rear 3/4" bar on my '68 Coronet (small block car) which I had earlier installed 440/Hemi spec. torsion bars and leaf springs on. These FF bars matched up very well on my Coronet, and it now handles really quite well!
I'm not familiar with the Hotchkis bars, but there is a big difference in stiffness between a 3/4" bar and a 1" bar! You've already received plenty of good advice from the other guys here, with that said I suggest if you do install the 1" bar on the rear you adjust it as soft as you can to start out with, test drive through some curves to see how the car handles. If the car understeers (front plows through the corners) then you'll know that you can go stiffer on the adjustment of the rear bar. If the car oversteers (rear end wants to swing out) in the curves that would indicate that the 1" bar is too stiff in relation to the 1 1/8" bar up front. That could make the car dangerous in the corners at moderate speeds, as well as on the straight away at high speed!

[twodko]

Thanks brother, initially most gentle setting for sure.

[Mike DC]

   
Yeah, larger diameter swaybars get MUCH stiffer as the diameter of the bar climbs.  0.75" is not 3/4ths as stiff as 1.00".

Same with the car's torsion bars holding up the front end.