No springs?

[frank1966]

Hello everyone,

Iam brand new to the mopar world, ive been a chevy guys for 10 years. I just bought a 1970 charger RT 440 auto and today was my first day giving it quick look over. Why are there no coil springs? The ride is very soft. How do I tighten up the suspension? - as stiff as possible?

I need wheels! the car looks like its on stilts! Iam looking for a 17 or 18 inch wheel - widest possible in the front and rear with 50 series tires - any combo suggestions?
thanks!

[Cooter]

No GM "G body shuffle" with Mopar leaf springs.

Look at some of the suspension threads from the canyon carvers here.

[frank1966]

so whats in the front just shocks?

[twodko]

Torsion bars.

[frank1966]

are torsion bars something that would need to be changed?

[Cooter]

Yes there are stiffer T bars. Also stiffer rear springs. Tubular front "K" members, upper/lower control arms,etc.

[twodko]

Cooter, the T bars can be cranked somewhat to get another inch or two front end height can't they?

O'course this would make the ride stiffer and require a fresh alignment yes?

[Cooter]

Yes, as long as you don't mind looking like a 4X4.

[HPP]

Old mopars use a torsion bar instead of a coil spring. Think of it as taking a coil, unwinding it and pulling straight, and then installing it in the car. It mounts at the pivot point of the lower control arm and the transmission crossmember.

Like all springs, torsion bars loose rate over time as well. Yes, you can step up the rate by replacing the bar. Stock bar is probably .88 in diameter. You would want to step up to a 1.0 or larger. This would be the equivalent of something like a 500# spring in your old GM. These bars can be purchased from Firm Feel, Hotchkis, or PST.

I'd highly recommend getting a Field Service Manual, paper or CD, for your  car.

[myk]

Hotchkis.net is your friend, OP.  You can buy select pieces or their "total vehicle system" for an arguably reasonable price.  I only have their sway bars and shocks on and the car has never been this "tight" in the suspension department.

As for wheels, I'm running 18X8's on all four corners; MB Old Schools by Discount Tire, to be exact, but there are plenty of styles and sizes to choose from.  You've chosen a good time to get into Mopars; there are actually CHOICES when it comes to outfitting your car these days.

Additionally, post 'pics for your car; you're not allowed to ask anymore questions until you do so...

[Mike DC]

  
The Torsion bar system is a bit of a bragging point among Mopar guys.  It may seem weird but it works really well when set up right.  

The fact that the springs are carried so low means the weight & stiffness in the front unibody can be moved down lower too.  The shock towers see much less stress than on a coiled car (You don't see as many Mopars with diagonal shock tower braces underhood compared to GM & Ford).  The lack of coils also allows much more room in the engine bay on either side of the motor.

Downside - the shock absorber mounting points (both front and rear) were not made beefy enough to hold up the vehicle weight since the factory wasn't using them for that.  So do not run air shocks or coilover shocks on a Mopar unless you've added some aftermarket bracing to the chassis just for that purpose.  The unmodified shock towers will flex too much, and the upper rear shock mounts above the rear axle will start tearing out the holes eventually.

[frank1966]

thanks for all of the explanations - I figured I could not use coilovers but wasn't sure why.

[Dino]

Nice color combo   

Look for my thread called new wheels.  I have the MD old school's in 17" on mine.  I was running stilts before that as well.  I'm running stock torsion bars but a bigger sway bar up front, nice and steady in the turns.   

[frank1966]

thanks! what are MD's? are your wheels black? I think a black color wheel will look nice with white?

[Dino]

They are not black but dark grey like the new vector wheels.  Likely when I paint my car a different color, the center will be painted flat black.  

Oh and small correction:  they're MB's, not MD's...that's the people I work with.   

MB Old School is a Discount Tire wheel, also available in chrome.

http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/wheels/mb_wheels/product/byName.do?tmn=Old+School&typ=Car%2FMinivan

[myk]

thanks! what are MD's? are your wheels black? I think a black color wheel will look nice with white?

They're MB wheels, a company by Discount Tire.  I run the MB Old School's as well, thanks to Dino:

[frank1966]

Since you guys are recommending MB from discount tire I suspect they are very realiable wheels? I don't really like buying unknown brand name wheels. You are their site I cant put in 1970 dodge charger they don't have it as an option! it seems like I cant do much bigger than 245/50/17 all around?

[Dino]

I haven't put a ton of miles on the car since the wheel addition, maybe a few hundred.  But that's on crappy Michigan roads and I don't baby the car.  I think it's a solid wheel.  You can go up to about 255 on the front.  A popular size for the rear is 275 or 295 although some stick way bigger tires under there, lots of room in these wheel wells!  Mine are 245 front and 275 rear which room to spare.  Tire size choice is limiting.  This is the only street tire I could find with a decent sidewall.  Nitto 275/50/17.  Fronts are 245/45.

[frank1966]

hey thanks, you have 275 on an 8 inch wheel?

[Dino]

hey thanks, you have 275 on an 8 inch wheel?

No, although it would work.  The fronts are 8" wide but the only wheels available with a deep dish like the ones I have on the back are 17x9.5.

If I would run a 15" wheel it would be 275 on 8".

[myk]

I have 255" on an 18x8.  I wanted a 9" like Dino's but they didn't have a 9" wide wheel in 18 AND in the gunmetal color, only in chrome.  

Now, you could buy the "real" wheel, I think it's a Vintage Wheel TTO or T70 but it's about $200 a wheel and they're all made in China anyway...

In any case, no trouble from my wheels at all, and they didn't cost a fortune like most wheel and tire packages do...

[frank1966]

So 255 18x8 all around, 45 or 50 series?

[myk]

45 series.  I dunno, sometimes I wish I could run a wider tire in the rear...

[Cooter]

While I was once on the sister board (E body)and didn't see the use in swapping the Tbars, I will say mine eyes were opened.
I recommend swapping the bars. Makes a world of difference.