Stock 440HP hp & torque

[Dino]

Can someone tell me what the true numbers are?  I have a '71 440HP which had some work so I'm not trying to figure out the numbers on this one but stock 440's from that era in general.

[Cooter]

Mopar Muscle mag did one back to stock with nothing but a .030 over bore and it made like 355 hp. I believe this was @ 8.75:1 compression as well.

[BSB67]

Based on actual car magazine track data from the 60s and early 70s, they were between 300 and 325 depending on state of tune and normal production tolerances.  You could probably put a really good tune ( timing and carb work beyond factory) on one and get 350.

Remember, it gets a little messy comparing hp numbers as there are a lot of different standards and references.

If the motor has been rebuilt, it is not factory and could be lower in power.  If it is original, it is probably wore out, and lower in power.  Simply saying that factory was 350 hp, and I added x, y, and z, so now it is 380 hp is a bit of a stretch.

[cdr]

Based on actual car magazine track data from the 60s and early 70s, they were between 300 and 325 depending on state of tune and normal production tolerances.  You could probably put a really good tune ( timing and carb work beyond factory) on one and get 350.

Remember, it gets a little messy comparing hp numbers as there are a lot of different standards and references.

If the motor has been rebuilt, it is not factory and could be lower in power.  If it is original, it is probably wore out, and lower in power.  Simply saying that factory was 350 hp, and I added x, y, and z, so now it is 380 hp is a bit of a stretch.

VERY true words 

[myk]

We talkin' net or gross?

[cdr]

i am sayin gross #'s

but as bsb67 says hp #'s are all over the place.

[cudaken]

In my DC Racing Manual they have Basic Horsepower chart. While it lumps all the engines by CI and not year, you will get the idea. Just the few most of us are interested in.

340 275-290 HP, only engine that meets advertised rating.

383 260-290 HP, does not list a 2 barrel motor

400 240-270 HP again no list for 2 barrel motor

440 270-330 HP

440 6 340-370 HP

426 Hemi 390-410 HP

Could a stock engine make there advertised HP, if done right it could be real close! Biggest thing that hurt the production motor is the sloppy deck height! If the block was .020 to high, besides losing compression (what most people think of first) you all so lose duration and cam lift and the heads and intake will not not aline as well.

Cuda Ken   

[Dino]

You guys know your engines!      

I always felt the numbers were exaggerated.  My car is no slouch but I would not be surprised if the numbers were way less than advertised. Some day I'll have to dyno that thing.   

[John_Kunkel]

If  you use the gross hp numbers that were in use during most of the muscle car era (SAE standards J245 and J1995) the advertised numbers might actually be low.

The factory wouldn't be fibbing if they claimed a motor made 375 hp at 4800 rpm but what if it made more maximum hp at a higher or lower rpm? IOW, everybody assumes the advertised number is the maximum but it might not be.

[69CoronetRT]

If  you use the gross hp numbers that were in use during most of the muscle car era (SAE standards J245 and J1995) the advertised numbers might actually be low.

A 428 SCJ advertised at 335 horse? The same as a Road Runner?

Rrrriiiiiiiigggggghhhhhhhttttt.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Attention to details is what makes stock parts go fast or slow.

[BSB67]

Good heads, good compression ratio, and attention to details is what makes stock parts go fast or slow.

Fixed it for ya.

[Challenger340]

Good heads, good compression ratio, and attention to details is what makes stock parts go fast or slow.

Fixed it for ya.

Yep, you can put 2 guys in different shops, each supplied with the identical parts to machine & build Engines as they see fit with... and get 2 DRAMATICALLY different Engine results in the final product.

a little off topic... but
Seen it many times over the years with Guys that used to apply for jobs at our Machine Shop ? as "one by one" the generic rebuilder shops closed up in the 80's & 90's.
We were OK... we had always been in Drag/Performance Engines & Blueprinting.... so we're still busy even Today.

But as the public quit needing 350's for their cars & trucks, lots guys at the generic Machine Shops needed jobs and would apply with us ?

They had been Engine Machinists at "generic" Engine Machine Shops for decades... literally TONS of know-how, 30 years experience, etc., so we'd give them a shot.
Totally lost !....
no clue !...
and had absolutely no idea any of the procedures we were using even existed ?
They were so used to doing "A" operation ... then "D" Operation.... and finally "H" operation to be done... with no idea B, C, E, F, G, even existed ? little-lown  that B checks A, C checks B, D checks C, E checks D etc., etc. to Blueprinting ?

We finally just stopped hiring those guys, pretty humbling for them and very sad, simply no fun for them or US ... trying to retrain a guy who's been resizing Connecting Rods, rebuilding Heads and Honing Blocks for 30 years....
only to find out....
They really know NOTHING about Connecting Rods, or Cylinder Heads, or Engine Blocks, or surface finishes, or tolerances, or metallurgy, or stress relief, or ANYTHING really ?

My point being as it relates to the original post
The same Engines/Parts.... are indeed capable of vastly different power outputs and reliability, depending upon "who" configures them.

[Dino]

Good heads, good compression ratio, and attention to details is what makes stock parts go fast or slow.

Fixed it for ya.

Yep, you can put 2 guys in different shops, each supplied with the identical parts to machine & build Engines as they see fit with... and get 2 DRAMATICALLY different Engine results in the final product.

a little off topic... but
Seen it many times over the years with Guys that used to apply for jobs at our Machine Shop ? as "one by one" the generic rebuilder shops closed up in the 80's & 90's.
We were OK... we had always been in Drag/Performance Engines & Blueprinting.... so we're still busy even Today.

But as the public quit needing 350's for their cars & trucks, lots guys at the generic Machine Shops needed jobs and would apply with us ?

They had been Engine Machinists at "generic" Engine Machine Shops for decades... literally TONS of know-how, 30 years experience, etc., so we'd give them a shot.
Totally lost !....
no clue !...
and had absolutely no idea any of the procedures we were using even existed ?
They were so used to doing "A" operation ... then "D" Operation.... and finally "H" operation to be done... with no idea B, C, E, F, G, even existed ? little-lown  that B checks A, C checks B, D checks C, E checks D etc., etc. to Blueprinting ?

We finally just stopped hiring those guys, pretty humbling for them and very sad, simply no fun for them or US ... trying to retrain a guy who's been resizing Connecting Rods, rebuilding Heads and Honing Blocks for 30 years....
only to find out....
They really know NOTHING about Connecting Rods, or Cylinder Heads, or Engine Blocks, or surface finishes, or tolerances, or metallurgy, or stress relief, or ANYTHING really ?

My point being as it relates to the original post
The same Engines/Parts.... are indeed capable of vastly different power outputs and reliability, depending upon "who" configures them.

This sad truth is the same in auto body.  I would see one guy after another with decades of experience and they could not do any of it beyond the absolute basics.  I cannot count the times I heard that they were doing this job when I was in diapers and all that stuff so I simply told them they'd been doing it wrong since I was in diapers.  Time means nothing if you don't do it right from the start.

[Cooter]

Yeah, just like the ones that think they deserve $100k/year simply because they've been there the longest and have seniority.
doesn't mean they were important, or worth any more money all those years, they were simply......There.

[69wannabe]

I will have to look in my magazine pile but mopar muscle done a 383 resto to rad engine build up and they built a 383 to 69 model specs with 9 to 1 flattops, and basically it was all original or close to except for the old points distributor. They used a mopar electronic dizzy and ran an original 625 AVS carb and stock iron intake with the hi-po manifolds and it kicked out 338hp if I remember correctly. They were quoted saying the 383 was in fact a 335hp engine. They did a 440 the same way and the numbers on it were 367hp which was slightly shy of its supposed to be 375hp. The thing about the 440 was that it took to the changes/upgrades much better than the 383. With a small cam, headers,intake swap and carb swap the 440's numbers were way up over 400hp but the 383 took more to get it up to the same hp numbers. These were both freshly rebuilt engines too tho...

[cudaken]

I will have to look in my magazine pile but mopar muscle done a 383 resto to rad engine build up and they built a 383 to 69 model specs with 9 to 1 flattops, and basically it was all original or close to except for the old points distributor. They used a mopar electronic dizzy and ran an original 625 AVS carb and stock iron intake with the hi-po manifolds and it kicked out 338hp if I remember correctly. They were quoted saying the 383 was in fact a 335hp engine. They did a 440 the same way and the numbers on it were 367hp which was slightly shy of its supposed to be 375hp. The thing about the 440 was that it took to the changes/upgrades much better than the 383. With a small cam, headers,intake swap and carb swap the 440's numbers were way up over 400hp but the 383 took more to get it up to the same hp numbers. These were both freshly rebuilt engines too tho...

69, what you need to keep in mind is there engines where built to speck, other words blueprinted engine and a shop that knows the in and outs of Mopar engines. Sadly the people that built our cars, well to them it was a job and I am sure 80% of them hated. So if a bolt fit and it does not blow up in front of them it was good to go!

Cuda Ken

[69wannabe]

I will have to look in my magazine pile but mopar muscle done a 383 resto to rad engine build up and they built a 383 to 69 model specs with 9 to 1 flattops, and basically it was all original or close to except for the old points distributor. They used a mopar electronic dizzy and ran an original 625 AVS carb and stock iron intake with the hi-po manifolds and it kicked out 338hp if I remember correctly. They were quoted saying the 383 was in fact a 335hp engine. They did a 440 the same way and the numbers on it were 367hp which was slightly shy of its supposed to be 375hp. The thing about the 440 was that it took to the changes/upgrades much better than the 383. With a small cam, headers,intake swap and carb swap the 440's numbers were way up over 400hp but the 383 took more to get it up to the same hp numbers. These were both freshly rebuilt engines too tho...

69, what you need to keep in mind is there engines where built to speck, other words blueprinted engine and a shop that knows the in and outs of Mopar engines. Sadly the people that built our cars, well to them it was a job and I am sure 80% of them hated. So if a bolt fit and it does not blow up in front of them it was good to go!

Cuda Ken

LOL I suppose you are right, I didn't really think of it that way. Some good reading and guidelines if you are planning a rebuild on your 383 or 440 tho....

[BSB67]

I will have to look in my magazine pile but mopar muscle done a 383 resto to rad engine build up and they built a 383 to 69 model specs with 9 to 1 flattops, and basically it was all original or close to except for the old points distributor. They used a mopar electronic dizzy and ran an original 625 AVS carb and stock iron intake with the hi-po manifolds and it kicked out 338hp if I remember correctly. They were quoted saying the 383 was in fact a 335hp engine. They did a 440 the same way and the numbers on it were 367hp which was slightly shy of its supposed to be 375hp. The thing about the 440 was that it took to the changes/upgrades much better than the 383. With a small cam, headers,intake swap and carb swap the 440's numbers were way up over 400hp but the 383 took more to get it up to the same hp numbers. These were both freshly rebuilt engines too tho...

If there was only one thing that you should not trust in magazine articles,  it is their dyno hp numbers.