I just found a Unicorn (68 R/T 4-speed with factory air)....

[RallyeMike]

Good sleuthing here. Seeing as how it has a 70 deck lid, replaced trunk floor, 8-3/4 axle, wacky numbers 4-speed, and as how some of the AC stuff isnt original either, it looks to me everything is in question now.

Considering that these flaws are obvious, and how good the fender tag looks, the follow up question to ponder is: If a fake fender tag can be made that well, and someone takes the time NOT to make obvious mistake, how many cars out there are being put together that are not what they appear to be? Scary.

[69CoronetRT]

Considering that these flaws are obvious, and how good the fender tag looks, the follow up question to ponder is: If a fake fender tag can be made that well, and someone takes the time NOT to make obvious mistake, how many cars out there are being put together that are not what they appear to be?

A LOT. Unsuspecting buyers are often ripped off by 'clones', 'tributes' and cobbled together messes this this one with bad tags. You see it happen on the boards all the time. It sucks to help people realize they got ripped off. What if a proud new owner of this car would have joined the board and shown off his new find? "Never say never. Look what I found!" What if the new buyer shows up at your next car show?

This car is a good example of why subscribing to the idea, "It's your car do what you want and to hell with the rest of the world thinks" can be dangerous. Somebody, probably, rebodied this car at some point. Somebody, possibly, bought this car not knowing that. Somebody, probably, will buy this car not knowing it. A lot of somebodies get burned because somebody 'wanted' to do something.

[TUFCAT]

This car is a good example of why subscribing to the idea, "It's your car do what you want and to hell with the rest of the world thinks" can be dangerous. Somebody, probably, rebodied this car at some point. Somebody, possibly, bought this car not knowing that. Somebody, probably, will buy this car not knowing it. A lot of somebodies get burned because somebody 'wanted' to do something.

Very well put. 

[familymopar]

Car was re-listed and seller says "NUMBERS MATCHING CAR, NO BUILD SHEET PLEASE DON'T MESSAGE AND ASK THESE QUESTIONS!!!!! ALSO WILL ONLY SHOW IN PERSON WITH PROOF OF FUNDS, DON'T HAVE TIME FOR GAMES, THANKS."

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&vxp=mtr&item=131137691635

[A383Wing]

has anyone told the seller that this car is a total mistake?

[familymopar]

has anyone told the seller that this car is a total mistake?

Doesn't seem like it

[1974dodgecharger]

Car was re-listed and seller says "NUMBERS MATCHING CAR, NO BUILD SHEET PLEASE DON'T MESSAGE AND ASK THESE QUESTIONS!!!!! ALSO WILL ONLY SHOW IN PERSON WITH PROOF OF FUNDS, DON'T HAVE TIME FOR GAMES, THANKS."

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&vxp=mtr&item=131137691635

yup sounds like a scammer and sounds like that one seller that has a barn full of chargers in Alabama who only shows his cars if you give him 200 dollars first before you guy etc....all on ebay.

[myk]

Considering that these flaws are obvious, and how good the fender tag looks, the follow up question to ponder is: If a fake fender tag can be made that well, and someone takes the time NOT to make obvious mistake, how many cars out there are being put together that are not what they appear to be?

A LOT. Unsuspecting buyers are often ripped off by 'clones', 'tributes' and cobbled together messes this this one with bad tags. You see it happen on the boards all the time. It sucks to help people realize they got ripped off. What if a proud new owner of this car would have joined the board and shown off his new find? "Never say never. Look what I found!" What if the new buyer shows up at your next car show?

This car is a good example of why subscribing to the idea, "It's your car do what you want and to hell with the rest of the world thinks" can be dangerous. Somebody, probably, rebodied this car at some point. Somebody, possibly, bought this car not knowing that. Somebody, probably, will buy this car not knowing it. A lot of somebodies get burned because somebody 'wanted' to do something.

I see.  So...classic cars, as a hobby, wherein a car owner customizes their car to their liking is now "dangerous?"  You know what's dangerous?   Poking a lion with a sharp stick-I think that's relatively dangerous.  The only real "danger" is the one that people bring upon themselves by not being informed and educated, but NOW I'm supposed to own my car a certain way too?  Why?  Just so some ignoramus that's too lazy and too stupid to perform a little research before they throw away their money on a unicorn of a car can be "saved?"  

*BULL*

I will build my car the way I want, I will call it what I want (short of any attempts to defraud potential buyers), and if I sell it, then it's the BUYER'S responsibility to make sure they know what they're getting into; caveat emptor and all of that.  If someone buys into something that is being mis-represented, and they fail to perform the necessary research to prevent fraud , then it's no one's fault but their own!  There's this thing called "personal responsbility" guys; I know it's a dated concept, especially in a world where everyone has become dependent on someone else to take care of them and to provide all of the answers, bundled up in warm blankets of guarantees and good cheer, but I suggest that we try it sometime.  

A lot of somebodies get burned because somebody 'wanted' to do something...  That has to be the most fascist thing I've heard all year, komrades.  Sorry, but my right to express myself through my car and this hobby trumps the vain, elitist ideals of the divine authority of the Mopar VIN plate correctedness police, or the people that have more money than sense in buying a risky car...

[Mytur Binsdirti]

Car was re-listed and seller says "NUMBERS MATCHING CAR, NO BUILD SHEET PLEASE DON'T MESSAGE AND ASK THESE QUESTIONS!!!!! ALSO WILL ONLY SHOW IN PERSON WITH PROOF OF FUNDS, DON'T HAVE TIME FOR GAMES, THANKS."

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&vxp=mtr&item=131137691635

With a new starting bid of $38,000.00, at least he has a sense of humor. 

[1974dodgecharger]

Car was re-listed and seller says "NUMBERS MATCHING CAR, NO BUILD SHEET PLEASE DON'T MESSAGE AND ASK THESE QUESTIONS!!!!! ALSO WILL ONLY SHOW IN PERSON WITH PROOF OF FUNDS, DON'T HAVE TIME FOR GAMES, THANKS."

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&vxp=mtr&item=131137691635

With a new starting bid of $38,000.00, at least he has a sense of humor. 

Im gonna put up an ebay auction for my car as a joke one day.....at 1 million dollars and make up all the stories I have heard through the years from other sellers that were funny such as, "ill crush it before I sell it to you' etc..

[bakerhillpins]

I will build my car the way I want, I will call it what I want (short of any attempts to defraud potential buyers), and if I sell it, then it's the BUYER'S responsibility to make sure they know what they're getting into; caveat emptor and all of that.  If someone buys into something that is being mis-represented, and they fail to perform the necessary research to prevent fraud , then it's no one's fault but their own!

Ill risk stepping in a pile but the key point you make is highlighted.  At least from my point of view you are both making the same point.  I don't think anyone is really saying that doing your own think with your charger is the problem. It always boils down to someone who is unscrupulous.

Your second statement stands on its own... because down the road someone is just selling what they were sold because they don't or didn't care to know any better.

[TUFCAT]

That's why people need actual (not -faked) paper documentation if they really want to make any undisputed claims.  

That's why many well-heeled buyers walk away from cars without paper. This is not to say they have been burned by fake documentation, I'm sure they have! ....but paper almost always accompanies the most high dollar, high-quality cars these days.

[dyslexic teddybear]

Hate fakes.

Anything that is represented as something it is not.

Yet I want to build a "clone" of one of the aero cars.  

However, I will take precautions to make sure it can NOT be mistaken for a real one. Even if that means bead welding "clone" into every flat surface only visible from underneath.

If someone isn't interested enough to crawl under it......my conscience will be clear.

[Troy]

Considering that these flaws are obvious, and how good the fender tag looks, the follow up question to ponder is: If a fake fender tag can be made that well, and someone takes the time NOT to make obvious mistake, how many cars out there are being put together that are not what they appear to be?

A LOT. Unsuspecting buyers are often ripped off by 'clones', 'tributes' and cobbled together messes this this one with bad tags. You see it happen on the boards all the time. It sucks to help people realize they got ripped off. What if a proud new owner of this car would have joined the board and shown off his new find? "Never say never. Look what I found!" What if the new buyer shows up at your next car show?

This car is a good example of why subscribing to the idea, "It's your car do what you want and to hell with the rest of the world thinks" can be dangerous. Somebody, probably, rebodied this car at some point. Somebody, possibly, bought this car not knowing that. Somebody, probably, will buy this car not knowing it. A lot of somebodies get burned because somebody 'wanted' to do something.

I see.  So...classic cars, as a hobby, wherein a car owner customizes their car to their liking is now "dangerous?"  You know what's dangerous?   Poking a lion with a sharp stick-I think that's relatively dangerous.  The only real "danger" is the one that people bring upon themselves by not being informed and educated, but NOW I'm supposed to own my car a certain way too?  Why?  Just so some ignoramus that's too lazy and too stupid to perform a little research before they throw away their money on a unicorn of a car can be "saved?" 

*BULL*

I will build my car the way I want, I will call it what I want (short of any attempts to defraud potential buyers), and if I sell it, then it's the BUYER'S responsibility to make sure they know what they're getting into; caveat emptor and all of that.  If someone buys into something that is being mis-represented, and they fail to perform the necessary research to prevent fraud , then it's no one's fault but their own!  There's this thing called "personal responsbility" guys; I know it's a dated concept, especially in a world where everyone has become dependent on someone else to take care of them and to provide all of the answers, bundled up in warm blankets of guarantees and good cheer, but I suggest that we try it sometime. 

A lot of somebodies get burned because somebody 'wanted' to do something...  That has to be the most fascist thing I've heard all year, komrades.  Sorry, but my right to express myself through my car and this hobby trumps the vain, elitist ideals of the divine authority of the Mopar VIN plate correctedness police, or the people that have more money than sense in buying a risky car...

I also think you are saying the same thing. How's this for an example:
A guy decides he really wants a 4-speed so he finds all the parts and swaps it. He has a buddy with all the unique SE pieces so he puts them on his car. He runs across a rear defrost unit at a swap meet. Later an 8-track and 3 speaker dash. And so it goes with light package, recall wheels, and maybe even a trunk release the he found on a C body. Then one day he finds a place that makes reproduction fender tags and says: "Wouldn't it be cool if I made a tag to match the way my car is now? You know, just the way I would have ordered it! Of course I'll tell everyone what I've done and, if I ever sell it, I'll give the new owner the original. Besides, it's obvious that the car didn't come this way." Step forward 15 years and the guy passes away unexpectedly. His wife and kids - who have no interest in cars - sell the car to a broker. Perhaps they couldn't find the paperwork and original tag OR maybe the broker realizes that he could make a much bigger profit if he just doesn't mention it and it gets "lost". After 2 or 3 more owners the story gets embellished and the car becomes a legend.

As an extension to this story, when the guy has a 440 built for the car his machinist happens to mention that he can stamp any number on there that he wants. Yeah, sure, it would be neat to have a numbers matching car...

I ran into a guy a couple years ago with a Plum Crazy 70 440 Six Pack Charger. When I looked at the tag I saw that it was supposed to be black and I thought "who in their right mind would take a factory black Six Pack car and paint it purple?" I talked to the guy a bit. Turns out, he had two Six Pack cars! One black and one purple. The purple one had a nicer body and the black one had a good drive train so, in order to "keep it numbers matching" (his words) he swapped the fender tag with the drive train and sprayed on some fresh purple paint. Not exactly a financial genius here! He was actively trying to sell the car so I'm not totally sure what his plan was.

Troy

[dyslexic teddybear]

Well put.

Also suspect that as prices increased......the percentage of intentional adding options to increase resale value.....went up faster.

I have a great deal of respect for those that take the time and effort to research and put it back to as close to stock as humanly possible. Takes a dedication that seldom returns $$$ for $$$ and time spent.

For the profit orientated.....not so much.

Much rather be checking out and  over a subtle custom[added options] then something pushed as "special, 1 of 1".......

And survivors. Love survivors. Or near survivors.

[tan top]

Considering that these flaws are obvious, and how good the fender tag looks, the follow up question to ponder is: If a fake fender tag can be made that well, and someone takes the time NOT to make obvious mistake, how many cars out there are being put together that are not what they appear to be?

A LOT. Unsuspecting buyers are often ripped off by 'clones', 'tributes' and cobbled together messes this this one with bad tags. You see it happen on the boards all the time. It sucks to help people realize they got ripped off. What if a proud new owner of this car would have joined the board and shown off his new find? "Never say never. Look what I found!" What if the new buyer shows up at your next car show?

This car is a good example of why subscribing to the idea, "It's your car do what you want and to hell with the rest of the world thinks" can be dangerous. Somebody, probably, rebodied this car at some point. Somebody, possibly, bought this car not knowing that. Somebody, probably, will buy this car not knowing it. A lot of somebodies get burned because somebody 'wanted' to do something.

I see.  So...classic cars, as a hobby, wherein a car owner customizes their car to their liking is now "dangerous?"  You know what's dangerous?   Poking a lion with a sharp stick-I think that's relatively dangerous.  The only real "danger" is the one that people bring upon themselves by not being informed and educated, but NOW I'm supposed to own my car a certain way too?  Why?  Just so some ignoramus that's too lazy and too stupid to perform a little research before they throw away their money on a unicorn of a car can be "saved?"  

*BULL*

I will build my car the way I want, I will call it what I want (short of any attempts to defraud potential buyers), and if I sell it, then it's the BUYER'S responsibility to make sure they know what they're getting into; caveat emptor and all of that.  If someone buys into something that is being mis-represented, and they fail to perform the necessary research to prevent fraud , then it's no one's fault but their own!  There's this thing called "personal responsbility" guys; I know it's a dated concept, especially in a world where everyone has become dependent on someone else to take care of them and to provide all of the answers, bundled up in warm blankets of guarantees and good cheer, but I suggest that we try it sometime.  

A lot of somebodies get burned because somebody 'wanted' to do something...  That has to be the most fascist thing I've heard all year, komrades.  Sorry, but my right to express myself through my car and this hobby trumps the vain, elitist ideals of the divine authority of the Mopar VIN plate correctedness police, or the people that have more money than sense in buying a risky car...

I also think you are saying the same thing. How's this for an example:
A guy decides he really wants a 4-speed so he finds all the parts and swaps it. He has a buddy with all the unique SE pieces so he puts them on his car. He runs across a rear defrost unit at a swap meet. Later an 8-track and 3 speaker dash. And so it goes with light package, recall wheels, and maybe even a trunk release the he found on a C body. Then one day he finds a place that makes reproduction fender tags and says: "Wouldn't it be cool if I made a tag to match the way my car is now? You know, just the way I would have ordered it! Of course I'll tell everyone what I've done and, if I ever sell it, I'll give the new owner the original. Besides, it's obvious that the car didn't come this way." Step forward 15 years and the guy passes away unexpectedly. His wife and kids - who have no interest in cars - sell the car to a broker. Perhaps they couldn't find the paperwork and original tag OR maybe the broker realizes that he could make a much bigger profit if he just doesn't mention it and it gets "lost". After 2 or 3 more owners the story gets embellished and the car becomes a legend.

As an extension to this story, when the guy has a 440 built for the car his machinist happens to mention that he can stamp any number on there that he wants. Yeah, sure, it would be neat to have a numbers matching car...

I ran into a guy a couple years ago with a Plum Crazy 70 440 Six Pack Charger. When I looked at the tag I saw that it was supposed to be black and I thought "who in their right mind would take a factory black Six Pack car and paint it purple?" I talked to the guy a bit. Turns out, he had two Six Pack cars! One black and one purple. The purple one had a nicer body and the black one had a good drive train so, in order to "keep it numbers matching" (his words) he swapped the fender tag with the drive train and sprayed on some fresh purple paint. Not exactly a financial genius here! He was actively trying to sell the car so I'm not totally sure what his plan was.

Troy

yeah I bet that goes on more than you think ,  certainly over the 40 plus years    no telling what owners have been up to

[RallyeMike]

Quote from: familymopar on Yesterday at 06:49:21 PM
Car was re-listed and seller says "NUMBERS MATCHING CAR, NO BUILD SHEET PLEASE DON'T MESSAGE AND ASK THESE QUESTIONS!!!!! ALSO WILL ONLY SHOW IN PERSON WITH PROOF OF FUNDS, DON'T HAVE TIME FOR GAMES, THANKS."

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&vxp=mtr&item=131137691635

yup sounds like a scammer and sounds like that one seller that has a barn full of chargers in Alabama who only shows his cars if you give him 200 dollars first before you guy etc....all on ebay.

What you can claim not to know won't hurt you. Just the next guy. 

[lookin@my68]

I thought the tag was a fake too but not because of the reasons already mentioned ( I'm not that knowledgeable! )

I thought it was fake because the top right hand corner was not folded up where they just removed 1 screw and swung the tag around to paint underneath it...were all 68's done like this or just ones built at a certain plant or was it totally random and depended on who was painting the car??

If you look at the other 3 legit tags they all have the fold... what was correct??

[1974dodgecharger]

[Ghoste]

The bent corner isn't hard and fast, most were but some not.

[69CoronetRT]

Were all 68's done like this or just ones built at a certain plant ...

Different plants handled the tag differently. Some bent the corner, some didn't.

[ws23rt]

Well put.

Also suspect that as prices increased......the percentage of intentional adding options to increase resale value.....went up faster.

I have a great deal of respect for those that take the time and effort to research and put it back to as close to stock as humanly possible. Takes a dedication that seldom returns $$$ for $$$ and time spent.

For the profit orientated.....not so much.

Much rather be checking out and  over a subtle custom[added options] then something pushed as "special, 1 of 1".......

And survivors. Love survivors. Or near survivors.

I'm with you on this ---survivors are more important now than ever before and they are rusting as we speak.

As the clock ticks all fades into the past.

The future value of survivors is for reference and perhaps the museum.  Every time a survivor is restored it reduces the the  number of remaining pieces of history.

We can build a charger as we want it to be and have fun driving it. Their is no need to violate the few originals that are left.   These are 45 years old now and were not made to last

[Ghoste]

100%!  And of the drivers, get out there and do so because we weren't made to last either.

[maxwellwedge]

I will!!!      As soon as this darn winter from hell goes away!!   

[Ghoste]

No kidding, after a two day thaw so I could see bare concrete on my driveway again we got nailed hard again yesterday.  (as did you)