QA1/Hotchkis/DrDiff install.

[2Luke2]

 What we have done so far is removed all suspension parts including brakes and steering box as they are being replaced as well. With much effort and many returns we have replaced our stock k frame with a QA1 kframe(It's so pretty) It came damaged a couple times and after it got there without damage we tried to install it only to find out it was the wrong part. Long story short QA1 took care of us and we are more than happy with them as a company.


Weight savings so far:
-8.0lbs.... Our stock K frame with grease and dirt was 43.8lbs and our new QA1 K frame was 35.8lbs. So a weight savings of 8lbs; not bad at all! We actually thought it was going to be the same weight.
-5.8lbs.... Old iron disc/drum master cylinder weighed 8.6lbs and DrDiff aluminum master cylinder was 2.8lbs.
-4.8lbs....Stock LCAs were 11.2 and the QA1 LCAs are 8.8.
+4.0lbs....Old .93 torsion bars were a bit lighter, but the new Hotchkis ones are 1.1. I think a total weight gain of around 4lbs
-25lbs power steering box to manual
-?lbs power steering reservoir and hoses
-2lbs fox shocks




We are still waiting on our calipers, but they will probably weigh the same since we didn't get an aftermarket kit per say. We just didn't want to reuse the old calipers on the car so we got a complete stage 2 kit from DrDiff. Though they did come with a larger rotor so they should be a bit heavy, but maybe help brake just a bit better.

We are also waiting on the manual steering box from Firmfeel so that should be a nice chunk of weight saved since we are converting from power steering. We ended up opting for the 20:1 box.


These are the parts we are installing (Broken down by brand for those who are curious):
Hotchkis: torsion bars, strut rods, UCAs, and tie rods
Fox: shocks
QA1: LCAs
DoctorDiff spindles, calipers and rotors
MOOG: Lower ball joints
FirmFeel: Manual steering box(still in route)
Factory: Centerlink(We couldn't find a new one) and factory sway bar as far as we know. It only weighs 14lbs and I think it was an inch and a 1/8 or something close. I will update this when I get time to weigh and measure it again. We are planning to upgrade it, but as you can see from the parts list this already took us quite a while to save up for.

We got started yesterday, but ran into a few snags already. This is our first suspension install on a car this old so bear with us.  

The first HUGE snag was installing the QA1 lower control arms. Though we give partial credit to QA1 for the install instructions, but mostly our fault for not doing more research. The install portion of the instructions say simply "1. Install control arm.". So that's what we did... only did we find out later that the pivot bolt that gets pulled through the kframe doesn't move, period. Well that causes a problem when you were just letting it hang while you were installing it. The reason being is because when you try pull up on the arm to put it in position to connect to the rest of the parts... well it doesn't move up or you are putting tension on the pivot shaft. Well trying to get this LCA out took up half our day and will end up costing us some more money because we damaged the top of the bolt on removal. We first used a 3lb sledge and try to knock it out, that didn't budge it and it's also what damaged it. We then got created and took apart our hydraulic press so we could use the bottle jack to wedge in between the frame and the bolt and to jack. It took quite a bit to push it back out.

So with the first snag of the day behind us we did a bit more research and decided to start at the top. So we started to install the Hotchkis UCA on the passenger side. It has a bracket you use to relocate the mounting position of the arm and we had to clearance old mounting area so the bolt that holds UCA to the new bracket would fit with washers. Once we had the bracket we tried to install the UCA into the new bracket. Well... that didn't work because part of the body was in the way and wouldn't let the eyebolt fit past into the bracket. So at first we used a pair of pliers and bent the sheet metal back a bit and then inserted the front arm of the UCA into the new bracket. Once it was in we installed the bump stop and then noticed that the arm bottoms out on the sheet metal before it even gets close to the bump stop. So we took the UCA off and then took out the bracket. We double checked everything and it was all as required. So we pulled out the dremel and adjusted the sheet metals position haha. We then ground it down so it looked pretty and covered it up with some paint. Oh and almost forgot to mention that we also cleaned out about a pound or more of dirt off the frame rail right below where the UCA attaches. We thought it was rough metal at first, but then we picked at it and it came out it huge clumps of dirt. We took great care to make sure we cleaned it all out so it doesn't trap any moisture and start to rust. Once the sheet metal was out of the way we reassembled the UCA and everything was well. Nothing was bumping or hitting that wasn't supposed to.

That brings us to our next part of the install which is the spindle. Since we got the stage two brake package from DrDiff they came included with the brakes. This is our next snag point. The reason being is because the spindles are labeled L and R on the back of them. We assumed that the L and R were meant to be viewed as if you were sitting in the car. So we put the spindle labeled R on the passenger side which is what we have been working on. Well when you look on DrDiffs website it states:

"Install calipers facing the front on B-bodies equipped with aftermarket sway bars, no sway bars or '70 and newer factory sway bars."

Well we are working on a 70 B body with a factory sway bar... or at least we think it's factory because the old LCAs have the sway bar mounts. So when we look at the spindle that is marked 'R' on the back it has the bracket holes for the caliper bracket on the back of the spindle. So we aren't sure if we got the wrong spindles or if we are trying to put them on the wrong side of the car. We have the same issue with the Hotchkis torsion bars. They are labeled R and L and we aren't 100% sure which side to put them on.

The last snag for the day is the brake lines we ordered with our brake kit from DrDiff. We spoke on the phone and we ordered the master cylinder, the brake kit, brake lines, and a prop valve that it supposed to switch out our three blocks to one block. Only issue is after we installed the master cylinder none of the lines fit at all. I mean not even close. So we have to call back and see what we were supposed to be sent.

So right now all we have really accomplished is some clearancing of sheet metal and also learned how not to install LCAs.  

Hopefully once we get the parts back in we won't screw things up and get this car back together.


Here are a few pics of the progress. The red arrows picture is where we had to trim for the UCA.

[2Luke2]

Yes I know wall of text lol... almost forgot to say we don't have anything tightened down. We still need to do more research on what to set the initial adjustments to.

[1974dodgecharger]

Now that looks fun. ....

[2Luke2]

Okay, just to keep the progress going. I called DoctorDiff about the brakes and spindle issues. I had to send him pictures it looks like they might have sent me lines for the engine side not the other. On the spindles the L and R don't mean anything according to him and they are interchangeable. So we are just going to swap spindles and that will be that. As for the LCA we broke we are still waiting for a call back from QA1 to get that taken care of hopefully. Wednesday is when more of the parts come in so hopefully we can make some more progress. We will update as we make progress.

[2Luke2]

So apparently we have a rare Bendix booster and the place where Doctordiff orders his brake lines doesn't make lines for our application. So we aren't sure what we are going to do there. The spindles markings on the back don't matter according to what we were told. So we are going to put the one marked 'R' on the driver side and the 'L' on the passenger side so we can have our brakes hang off the front of the calipers.

We are still waiting to hear back from QA1 to see if they will let us buy just one control arm to replace the one we damaged upon removal. We tried to make it work, but it just didn't work out. This is the current holdup for the entire suspension being put back in. We have the driver side all in place and nothing tightened down yet. We want to make sure everything lines up before we doing anything else that could cause us issues.

We will update as it progresses next week.

On the off chance someone is actually reading these walls of text haha.. anyone know what we should be setting our camber, caster, toe in, and torsion bars to for initial install so we can get it to an alignment shop?

[WHITE AND RED 69]

Going to be a killer setup!   

Why put the calipers on the front of the spindle? I'd leave them as pictured, brake line routing will be easier.

[2Luke2]

Going to be a killer setup!   

Why put the calipers on the front of the spindle? I'd leave them as pictured, brake line routing will be easier.

They have factory disc in the front and the calipers were on the front. On doctordiff's website it said that the kit we got from them should be on the front as well.

Either way we don't have break lines so we have to figure out something. We may have to just buy and create our own lines.

[myk]

On the off chance someone is actually reading these walls of text haha.. anyone know what we should be setting our camber, caster, toe in, and torsion bars to for initial install so we can get it to an alignment shop?

Oh I'm reading your walls of text, for sure.  As for initial setup, I know that Hotchkis has some numbers to get you going, so I'd imagine that QA1 would have some numbers as well; call them and ask.  If not, you could always tow it?

[flyinbolts]

Just a stupid curiosity - where'd you score the k-member? I'm looking for a big block kmember and haven't had much luck.

[myk]

Just a stupid curiosity - where'd you score the k-member? I'm looking for a big block kmember and haven't had much luck.

Are you refering to Luke's aftermarket K-member?  There's no big block/small block application-one size fits all; I'm pretty sure that the stock K member is the same as well, someone correct me if I'm wrong...

[flyinbolts]

kmember from a '73 318 won't fit a '73 440 without hacking up... So yea

Aftermarket? Where from?

[myk]

QA-1, but I don't think they have a K-member for your application...

[flyinbolts]

Huh. I thought they were all about the tubular kmembers one you have looks stock.

And yea, i'd asked them before and '73 is just about the one year they don't do...

[dangina]

don't forget to take into account the weight savings from oem shocks to the fox shocks - man are they light!!!

also about the centerlink, I thought about this and asked around a year ago, why not make one out of aluminum? seems like some good weight savings. I asked many people and read on forums, you wont find anyone selling one out of a lighter material due to the amount of stress it goes through, eveyone is worried that you may break it under hard cornering.

another thing to add that made me mad, they sell boots for the rod ends to keep the elements out, even hotchkis sells them. They are called seals-it, I just finished ripping apart my front suspension (again) so i could get these boots on. The same company sells seals that go on the sides like washers so you don't have to tear it all apart, just a FYI

[myk]

I'm glad they're light, I just want to see how they perform.  We'll see once  I get the rear Fox's on...

[2Luke2]

Huh. I thought they were all about the tubular kmembers one you have looks stock.

And yea, i'd asked them before and '73 is just about the one year they don't do...

Sorry the picture at the top is with the stock one still on. I will have to take some more pictures once the garage is cleaned up a bit and ready for pictures to be taken haha. Right now it's a mess and embarrassed by it. It's just been a long process and we keep thinking that we are finally ready to put it back together and end up running into a wall.

A quick update...

We contacted QA1 to help replace the one control arm we damaged removing it due to poor instructions. Well we got the e-mail back finally and they quoted us $300 for one control arm. Mind you we paid $391 shipped for both arms. The only thing wrong with the first arm was the top of the pivot bolt was damaged due to us trying to beat it out with a hammer. We don't want to try to press out the bolt because it will get all scratched up in the process. We are looking for pretty and intend to keep it that way. We aren't sure what we are going to do, but we do not want to spend $300 for one arm when we feel it was the install instructions that had a big play in the wrong installment. So we will update as that moves forward.

As far as the brake lines go we were able to put the new lines on with a little tweaking. What Cass from DoctorDiff was asking us to do was to bend the lines until they fit and then send the lines back to have new lines made, but we are tired of the back and forth and just want to get the car back together. It's been down far too long. So we put all the new lines in and put in the new MC in as well. Now if we can just get this control arm taken care of we can put the rest of the front together and put the wheels back on the ground after months of being on jack stands.

[Cooter]

kmember from a '73 318 won't fit a '73 440 without hacking up... So yea

Aftermarket? Where from?

What exactly has to be hacked??
with Schumacher, a big block should bolt in.

[2Luke2]

Another quick update. Our old suspension/brakes/kframe parts sold on ebay so we broke down and bought another set of LCAs. They should be here tomorrow. So we should get to try attempt two on the install. We are going to sell our other arms since one hasn't been installed yet and the other just needs the pin pressed out and in. Hopefully that will help us recoup some costs of the new arms.

Cass from Doctordiff sent us an email and said he drop shipped us some lines that should fit from the MC to the district block. So we are waiting to get those and see what they look like. We already bent the ones we have to fit, but if the new ones fit better that will be awesome!

We still are undecided how we are going to wire up the battery in the truck and if we are going to use a remote starter solenoid.

to be continued this weekend...

[2Luke2]

So we ended up getting the new LCAs. We got them in Friday and test fit everything together before doing any tightening on both sides of the car. We then started on the driver side and pulled the LCA bolt threw the kframe with the nut on both sides. It's an extremely tight fit and we had to use a 22" breaker bar to drawn the bolt through with the nut. The passenger side was extremely easy and we just used a standard ratchet.

We then mocked up the torsion bar on the passenger side and for some reason the bolt moves freely inside the kframe so we were able to adjust it without any issues. Though on the driver side the pivot hole where the torsion bar enters the LCA would not budge at all! It doesn't move when we use the key under the control arm and push up the torsion bar adjustment. We managed to wiggle the torsion bar into the hole, but it was difficult.

We didn't tighten anything down, but it doesn't move anywhere compared to the passenger side where it moves freely and we were able to adjust it to slide the torsion bar right in. So we are hoping that once we snug everything down and put the car on the ground that it will loosen this up enough that the torsion bar adjuster key actually does something. The only thing we can think of is that we installed the LCA on the passenger side and damaged it and had to remove it. So it was a little broke in where as the driver side was the first install. We shall see...

Right now we had to take a brake because we went to install the DoctorDiff stage 2 disc brake kit and ran into a couple of issues. First off inside our new rotors it looks like someone pressed in bearing retainers, but inside our key were new bearings and retainers. The ones in the kit look very polished and the ones inside the rotors right now are very crude looking. We weren't sure if we were supposed to remove the ones in the rotor and replace them with the ones that came with the key or just put the bearings in after we packed them with grease. We also aren't sure which way the seal goes on the back of the rotor. There is a longer lip on one side and we believe that faces down into the rotor.

Last, but no least we got some rectangle pieces that get attached to the top of the calipers, but we don't know if they go up or down and what the rubber bands were for.. so we are trying to do some research for that.

Anyway to be continued. 

[MSRacing89]

So we ended up getting the new LCAs. We got them in Friday and test fit everything together before doing any tightening on both sides of the car. We then started on the driver side and pulled the LCA bolt threw the kframe with the nut on both sides. It's an extremely tight fit and we had to use a 22" breaker bar to drawn the bolt through with the nut. The passenger side was extremely easy and we just used a standard ratchet.

We then mocked up the torsion bar on the passenger side and for some reason the bolt moves freely inside the kframe so we were able to adjust it without any issues. Though on the driver side the pivot hole where the torsion bar enters the LCA would not budge at all! It doesn't move when we use the key under the control arm and push up the torsion bar adjustment. We managed to wiggle the torsion bar into the hole, but it was difficult.

We didn't tighten anything down, but it doesn't move anywhere compared to the passenger side where it moves freely and we were able to adjust it to slide the torsion bar right in. So we are hoping that once we snug everything down and put the car on the ground that it will loosen this up enough that the torsion bar adjuster key actually does something. The only thing we can think of is that we installed the LCA on the passenger side and damaged it and had to remove it. So it was a little broke in where as the driver side was the first install. We shall see...

Right now we had to take a brake because we went to install the DoctorDiff stage 2 disc brake kit and ran into a couple of issues. First off inside our new rotors it looks like someone pressed in bearing retainers, but inside our key were new bearings and retainers. The ones in the kit look very polished and the ones inside the rotors right now are very crude looking. We weren't sure if we were supposed to remove the ones in the rotor and replace them with the ones that came with the key or just put the bearings in after we packed them with grease. We also aren't sure which way the seal goes on the back of the rotor. There is a longer lip on one side and we believe that faces down into the rotor.

Last, but no least we got some rectangle pieces that get attached to the top of the calipers, but we don't know if they go up or down and what the rubber bands were for.. so we are trying to do some research for that.

Anyway to be continued.  

Man.....We had our whole front end together and on the ground in about an hour during the PHR photo shoot.  Bummer you are having so many issues.

We did run into ride height issues with our clocked 1.12 TB's.....we could not get the car low enough.  We disassembled the LCA's in house, re-clocked the key, re-welded everything (w/ some extra just because) and we were good to go.  I relayed all this information to QA1 ( as all this was free to help with R&D).  I can only hope they solved this issue for future buyers.  I believe the ride height issue will only be a problem with the larger CLOCKED TB's.  Maybe 1.10 and above.

Good luck going forward.  BTW. We beat the heck out of the front end last weekend at Laguna Seca.  Held up well.  Fought some toe issues ( all new parts can do that) but other then that the car felt great and was fast.

[2Luke2]

So we ended up getting the new LCAs. We got them in Friday and test fit everything together before doing any tightening on both sides of the car. We then started on the driver side and pulled the LCA bolt threw the kframe with the nut on both sides. It's an extremely tight fit and we had to use a 22" breaker bar to drawn the bolt through with the nut. The passenger side was extremely easy and we just used a standard ratchet.

We then mocked up the torsion bar on the passenger side and for some reason the bolt moves freely inside the kframe so we were able to adjust it without any issues. Though on the driver side the pivot hole where the torsion bar enters the LCA would not budge at all! It doesn't move when we use the key under the control arm and push up the torsion bar adjustment. We managed to wiggle the torsion bar into the hole, but it was difficult.

We didn't tighten anything down, but it doesn't move anywhere compared to the passenger side where it moves freely and we were able to adjust it to slide the torsion bar right in. So we are hoping that once we snug everything down and put the car on the ground that it will loosen this up enough that the torsion bar adjuster key actually does something. The only thing we can think of is that we installed the LCA on the passenger side and damaged it and had to remove it. So it was a little broke in where as the driver side was the first install. We shall see...

Right now we had to take a brake because we went to install the DoctorDiff stage 2 disc brake kit and ran into a couple of issues. First off inside our new rotors it looks like someone pressed in bearing retainers, but inside our key were new bearings and retainers. The ones in the kit look very polished and the ones inside the rotors right now are very crude looking. We weren't sure if we were supposed to remove the ones in the rotor and replace them with the ones that came with the key or just put the bearings in after we packed them with grease. We also aren't sure which way the seal goes on the back of the rotor. There is a longer lip on one side and we believe that faces down into the rotor.

Last, but no least we got some rectangle pieces that get attached to the top of the calipers, but we don't know if they go up or down and what the rubber bands were for.. so we are trying to do some research for that.

Anyway to be continued. 

Man.....We had our whole front end together and on the ground in about an hour during the PHR photo shoot.  Bummer you are having so many issues.

We did run into ride height issues with our clocked 1.12 TB's.....we could not get the car low enough.  We disassembled the LCA's in house, re-clocked the key, re-welded everything (w/ some extra just because) and we were good to go.  I relayed all this information to QA1 ( as all this was all free to help with R&D).  I can only hope they solved this issue for future buyers.  I believe the ride height issue will only be a problem with the larger CLOCKED TB's.  Maybe 1.10 and above.

Good luck going forward.  BTW. We beat the heck out of the front end last weekend at Laguna Seca.  Held up well.  Fought some toe issues ( all new parts can do that) but other then that the car felt great and was fast.

Glad to hear it's working out for you MSRacing89. We will work through the problems, just going to take a little bit of time. Do you have any advice on the initial settings we should be looking for once we get everything together?

[MSRacing89]

So we ended up getting the new LCAs. We got them in Friday and test fit everything together before doing any tightening on both sides of the car. We then started on the driver side and pulled the LCA bolt threw the kframe with the nut on both sides. It's an extremely tight fit and we had to use a 22" breaker bar to drawn the bolt through with the nut. The passenger side was extremely easy and we just used a standard ratchet.

We then mocked up the torsion bar on the passenger side and for some reason the bolt moves freely inside the kframe so we were able to adjust it without any issues. Though on the driver side the pivot hole where the torsion bar enters the LCA would not budge at all! It doesn't move when we use the key under the control arm and push up the torsion bar adjustment. We managed to wiggle the torsion bar into the hole, but it was difficult.

We didn't tighten anything down, but it doesn't move anywhere compared to the passenger side where it moves freely and we were able to adjust it to slide the torsion bar right in. So we are hoping that once we snug everything down and put the car on the ground that it will loosen this up enough that the torsion bar adjuster key actually does something. The only thing we can think of is that we installed the LCA on the passenger side and damaged it and had to remove it. So it was a little broke in where as the driver side was the first install. We shall see...

Right now we had to take a brake because we went to install the DoctorDiff stage 2 disc brake kit and ran into a couple of issues. First off inside our new rotors it looks like someone pressed in bearing retainers, but inside our key were new bearings and retainers. The ones in the kit look very polished and the ones inside the rotors right now are very crude looking. We weren't sure if we were supposed to remove the ones in the rotor and replace them with the ones that came with the key or just put the bearings in after we packed them with grease. We also aren't sure which way the seal goes on the back of the rotor. There is a longer lip on one side and we believe that faces down into the rotor.

Last, but no least we got some rectangle pieces that get attached to the top of the calipers, but we don't know if they go up or down and what the rubber bands were for.. so we are trying to do some research for that.

Anyway to be continued. 

Man.....We had our whole front end together and on the ground in about an hour during the PHR photo shoot.  Bummer you are having so many issues.

We did run into ride height issues with our clocked 1.12 TB's.....we could not get the car low enough.  We disassembled the LCA's in house, re-clocked the key, re-welded everything (w/ some extra just because) and we were good to go.  I relayed all this information to QA1 ( as all this was all free to help with R&D).  I can only hope they solved this issue for future buyers.  I believe the ride height issue will only be a problem with the larger CLOCKED TB's.  Maybe 1.10 and above.

Good luck going forward.  BTW. We beat the heck out of the front end last weekend at Laguna Seca.  Held up well.  Fought some toe issues ( all new parts can do that) but other then that the car felt great and was fast.

Glad to hear it's working out for you MSRacing89. We will work through the problems, just going to take a little bit of time. Do you have any advice on the initial settings we should be looking for once we get everything together?

If you can get the ride height where you want it then that is half the battle.  You will have plenty of room for camber and caster adjustments assuming you are running the UCA's also.  Shoot for +5.5º to +6º caster, -.5º to -75º camber , 1/16 toe in for street.  Track go with +6º caster, -2º camber and 1/8" toe out for track.

[2Luke2]

Thank you! We will post pics up probably this week. We got a lot accomplished, but are taking it slow to make sure we don't screw anything up lol..

The only QA1 parts we are using is the kframe and LCAs, the UCAs are Hotchkis.. we got them before we got the QA1 parts, but if we had to do it all over again we would probably go all QA1 knowing that it was designed to work together.

[myk]

In theory, shouldn't all of the suspension parts from the various aftermarket companies be compatible with one another? 

[2Luke2]

I would hope so, but I know for a fact that the QA1 strut rods and the Hotchkis ones are different. They are both adjustable, but the Hotchkis ones are made to be held in place from spinning by a flat spot on a washer on the inside of the kframe. Well the QA1 frame doesn't really have a spot for that to go. So we aren't sure how well that's going to work out.