Car stereo/amp questions

[Lord Warlock]

After finishing the majority of the body work, paint, interior and engine detailing, and moving from the outside of the car to the inside, thoughts have moved to the stereo system, amplifiers and speakers.  Back in the old days, I had an underdash cassette player installed in the car, it is long gone.  A few questions are popping up before i go out and spend a bit of coin on parts.  The car has the AM/FM stereo from the factory, and it still works just fine, but to be truthful it isn't a stereo, its pretty much a mono system with a front speaker and a rear speaker with the fader knob to balance between the two.  I recently bought a set of JBL 5x7 speakers for the rear deck and was surprised to find out that they didn't drop into the holes back there as i thought they would, if I wanted to mount them from underneath the package tray I would install 6x9's back there instead.  However, I have other options i'm considering.  The factory AM/FM will be hooked up and left alone.  I want to put together a different system that can be used remotely ala hidden stereo or something similar.  

Something I tried in my daughter's miata and was quite pleased with was installing two of these (Dayton Audio DAEX58FP Flat Pack 58mm Exciter 25W 8 Ohm) attached to the rear package tray underside to a support structure, which basically made the entire package tray act like a speaker, it actually sounds pretty good for normal listening to full range sound.  
http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-daex58fp-flat-pack-58mm-exciter-25w-8-ohm--295-210
What I'd like to do is mount one of these to the upper door panel frame from the inside, using double sided tape (worked well before), one on the left and one on the right, and mount two more in the rear behind the door panel and possibly two more on the rear package tray area.  This will provide pretty good sounding stereo sound for midrange and highs, but it will be lacking in bass, so i'll have to install a subwoofer in the trunk as well.  I do have an amplified 8" bazooka tube I can install back there behind the seat and under the package tray, but will consider other bass systems, as I don't trust the old bazooka much after not using it for so long.

My main question is whether the charger's factory alternator can handle the load of a modern stereo system without getting the upgraded alternator.  I assume I'll have to install at least a 4 or 5 channel amplifier in the trunk, as well as use the speaker level outs to drive the exciters (speakers).  the exciters have a 25 watt rms limitation  so the speaker outs should work fine there, but I'd have to use the external amp to drive the rear speakers and sub.  Keep in mind that i will NOT cut door panels or modify the package tray other than drilling a few holes.  The exciters actually make the entire panel they are attached to act like a speaker, and would work either on the metal structure of the doors without interfering with the windows, or i could mount them to the door panel themselves on the backside and the whole door panel would act like a speaker without cutting a hole.  

I've used these previously in another car and was happy enough with the performance with just the head unit built in power.  I also use bass shakers in my home theater system with a large one mounted in the frame of my reclining chair, I already have a set of the dayton puck style bass shakers i could mount under the seats in the charger as well to provide bass you could feel without the thump thump sound being heard outside the car.  I do have to wait for the exciters to be restocked, or search elsewhere for them as they are sold out at the link shown earlier.

If the charging system can handle an aftermarket system (a reasonable system not a whole hog power robbing system that kids would like better), any ideas how to wire more than 4 speakers successfully?  Understand wiring in series or parallel but not sure what i should be looking for in an amp if i want to drive a sub on one channel for bass, and the rear deck speakers to the hidden stereo, as well as getting the factory am/fm to continue working with the front middle dash speaker and rear deck speakers.  

Also, what circuit would i tap into from the fuse box to run a power wire to the trunk area?  Very soon i will be pulling the new seats out and the rear door panels so i can run the wires prior to getting all the components. 

[twodko]

I'll admit I'm absolutely sold on SecretAudio products. With this said, I installed 5x7 Polk Audio coax speaks in the package tray. Use or borrow a Dremel tool to grind away the sheet metal until the speaks drop in.....not much work required. I used 5.5" Polk Audio coax in the door panels too (pre existing holes I'm sad to say).
I drive these with a SecretAudio head unit that includes and am/fm tuner and accommodates an iPod, external CD changer and outboard amps. Since installation I've found this unit provides more than enough "ear bleed" power and plenty of solid bass so no sub woofer for me and I like robust bass.
I have an iPod in the center console I use as a primary feed source. This unit comes with a small screen control head I mounted to the bottom edge of my ashtray. Full system control from this alone but this system also includes a wireless remote good to 40+' ops beyond the car. I chose to mount this remote on my console just behind the shift lever. Much more convenient system control and I don't have to take my eyes off the road. I used double sided tape for this. My reason for semi-permanently mounting the remote is because I didn't want to lose it.
I retained the OEM AM radio which works fine and maintains the dash the way it came from the factory. Banana Dan installed the same system, when I read his thread I was sold. Haven't looked back since. I paid $300 for this system from a Texas source. Search Dan's stereo install thread.

[Lord Warlock]

Plan on doing quite a bit of research before committing,  the exciters i want to add won't be in till early march so have till then to decide what to do speaker wise.  Looking at subs tonight, but haven't picked anything out yet.  The 5x7's should provide enough bass overall.  The exciters actually do produce mid bass, just no real low bass freq.  Was looking at amps and found a kenwood amp that looked like it might work.

The secret audio systems i saw tonight actually look like they'd more than suit my purpose, I have no need for a cd player, as all my tunes are on mp3 now.  I just picked up a portable speaker box with a built in FM stereo, bluetooth (that didn't work as far as I could tell) and USB/SD card inputs that could be plugged into the cigarette lighter in the car, i'm currently using it in the garage out back, only cost 44 bucks at pep boys and was an impulse buy.

I have a dremel tool and the new package tray board is currently out of the car so i have full access to the panel, I plan on installing the speakers in a way that the board hides the speakers, I just had hoped to avoid cutting metal out of the tray, its survived this long uncut, and even though it will be hidden by the package tray board, I still didn't want to cut it if I didn't have to.  I had considered cutting into the doors or kick panels as a youth, but managed to live without door speakers till now,  that's one reason why I'd like to use the exciters, they'll easily fit behind and attach to the metal of the door behind the upper door pad, and should sound pretty good there, but I won't know till i can get a few to play with.  Plan on buying 4 or 6 of them. 

I figure I should be able to hook up the exciters to the built in amp outputs, and the rear shelf + sub to an external amp.  Could always just buy a premade woofer box and put it in the trunk behind the seat, and hook it to the external amp. 

[cudaken]

War Lock, I sold my AM FM radio out of my 69 Charger for $600.00 and I still have the fader system. That was 10 years ago, used the money toward the blower drive.
Might be worth parting with if they are still worth that.

Ken

[bill440rt]

SecretAudio user here as well. 
http://www.casmfg.com/Secretaudio.htm

Dan became a believer after seeing/hearing it installed in my car.
It is a great unit, but I went a little further with two amps. One to power just the two subs, and another to power the 6 cabin speakers. I chose to install speakers in the doors & pillars, but you don't have to place them there if you don't want to.
The control unit is hidden in the console along with the iPod hookup, and I can control it with a little hand held remote. Another jack was put in the ashtray housing for an mp3 player. Original thumbwheel radio is in the dash as a dummy.
It is crystal clear, & strong bass with the amps/subs but I have full control of that.
I've posted this before, but here is a link to the audio install starting on pg4:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,64641.75.html
SecretAudio then begins on pg9 of this thread:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,64641.200.html

If you are looking for something clean, compact, and versatile the SecretAudio system is hard to beat.

[Mopar Nut]

SecretAudio user here as well. 
http://www.casmfg.com/Secretaudio.htm

Dan became a believer after seeing/hearing it installed in my car.
It is a great unit, but I went a little further with two amps. One to power just the two subs, and another to power the 6 cabin speakers. I chose to install speakers in the doors & pillars, but you don't have to place them there if you don't want to.
The control unit is hidden in the console along with the iPod hookup, and I can control it with a little hand held remote. Another jack was put in the ashtray housing for an mp3 player. Original thumbwheel radio is in the dash as a dummy.
It is crystal clear, & strong bass with the amps/subs but I have full control of that.
I've posted this before, but here is a link to the audio install starting on pg4:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,64641.75.html
SecretAudio then begins on pg9 of this thread:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,64641.200.html

If you are looking for something clean, compact, and versatile the SecretAudio system is hard to beat.

That's freakin awesome!   

[Lord Warlock]

I'm pretty much a packrat when it comes to the original parts on the charger, I haven't disposed of anything in over 15 years.  Last thing I let loose i regretted soon afterwards,  i gave away a full instrument cluster with a tic toc tach that went with the motor i have in my car, i took it out of the donor car when i took the motor out, but a local car club member needed one and it was sitting in my attic so i gave it away for free....considering how much those things go for now I wish i hadn't given it away-I'd love to have it now to send in for a rebuild.  I won't be selling the am/fm, i'll leave it in the dash mainly since the woodgrain radio plate will only fit the thumbwheel radio and not an aftermarket one, without hacking it up, and i'm trying to avoid that.  

From the sound of it, your car running multiple amps and speakers, the alternator and battery seem to be doing ok with it.  I know it will handle an aftermarket stereo, but i was worried about powering multiple amps.  Unfortunately,  I don't have a console, my car has a column shift and buddy seat.  I've been considering building a custom console to house front speakers and the Head unit, but haven't gotten to that stage yet.  Always wanted a B&M star shifter mounted on the floor but I'd have to take the buddy seat out to do it, or cut a hole in the cushion to have the handle stick thru it (not likely to happen now)

Your green charger is awesome bill,  been watching it for a couple years now, used old threads for references for installing headliners and glass.  Is it a basecoat/clearcoat or a single stage with clear over the top?  I'm contemplating clearing my single stage...arms are getting tired sanding

[b5blue]

Read:  http://www.bcae1.com
You must A: figure total Alt. output @ idle B: total load demand including all systems.

[bill440rt]

LW, the alternator was upgraded to a Powermaster 1-wire Ford-style unit. Ammeter was also converted to volts.

The head unit for the SecretAudio can go anywhere: trunk, glovebox, under the seat, etc. There is no need to custom build anything for the head unit. Mine is stashed under the seat. The faceplate (controller) is small & thin and can be mounted multiple ways. This is really the only thing you need access to, other than the remote. Brackets are included in case you want to mount it under the dash. I chose to put it in the console. It is so slim you could even have it custom mounted into the sunvisor. It is connected by cable to the head unit.
Lots of good reading on their website, check it out.

Paint on the green car is PPG DBU base with Concept 2002 clear. 

Tom, do you have any pictures of your SecretAudio in your car?

[Dino]

Can I run a smartphone straight to an amp and get tunes this way?  Many of them have FM radio built in even.  My stock AM radio still works and plays through the dash speaker and I like to keep it that way just for fun.  I don't really care to add another head unit.

[twodko]

Plan on doing quite a bit of research before committing,  the exciters i want to add won't be in till early march so have till then to decide what to do speaker wise.  Looking at subs tonight, but haven't picked anything out yet.  The 5x7's should provide enough bass overall.  The exciters actually do produce mid bass, just no real low bass freq.  Was looking at amps and found a kenwood amp that looked like it might work.

The secret audio systems i saw tonight actually look like they'd more than suit my purpose, I have no need for a cd player, as all my tunes are on mp3 now.  I just picked up a portable speaker box with a built in FM stereo, bluetooth (that didn't work as far as I could tell) and USB/SD card inputs that could be plugged into the cigarette lighter in the car, i'm currently using it in the garage out back, only cost 44 bucks at pep boys and was an impulse buy.

I have a dremel tool and the new package tray board is currently out of the car so i have full access to the panel, I plan on installing the speakers in a way that the board hides the speakers, I just had hoped to avoid cutting metal out of the tray, its survived this long uncut, and even though it will be hidden by the package tray board, I still didn't want to cut it if I didn't have to.  I had considered cutting into the doors or kick panels as a youth, but managed to live without door speakers till now,  that's one reason why I'd like to use the exciters, they'll easily fit behind and attach to the metal of the door behind the upper door pad, and should sound pretty good there, but I won't know till i can get a few to play with.  Plan on buying 4 or 6 of them. 

I figure I should be able to hook up the exciters to the built in amp outputs, and the rear shelf + sub to an external amp.  Could always just buy a premade woofer box and put it in the trunk behind the seat, and hook it to the external amp. 

You won't be "cutting" metal from the package tray panel. It's really just girding away a bit here and there so the speaks will drop right in.
The PolkAudio units I used sat almost flush with the PT. When I set the YO PT board place it was perfect. The board I used has a thin layer of jute insulation on it but even if it didn't the panel would still have laid flat. Lots of pix during your install so we can enjoy it too!

[twodko]

Forgot to mention this SecretAudio system also offers Serius Sat radio and an Aux capability to add something else......small kegerator......seat vibrators......pass. seat ejector.  

[twodko]

Bill,

I'll shoot a couple pix today while I'm reinstalling my seats and post up today or tomorrow.
I installed my head unit on the tray in the truck just behind the rear seat frame to the right of the spare tire. I bought some 2" wide black Velcro to mount it with.....gives it a slight cushion.

IIRC I posted my install in the same thread a Banana Dan. 

[twodko]

Bill,

Here are the pix of my SecretAudio install.

[twodko]

One more....Ipod in my console

[b5blue]

You could just add this.... 
  http://www.crutchfield.com/p_105KDX210/JVC-KD-X210.html?tp=5684

  That would give you AM/FM a plug for phone output and a USB port for a flash drive. If you installed the Polk speakers and bought the small mounting box they sell for single DIN Stereos (To put somewhere.) all you need extra is an antenna wire splitter to feed both radios. Many modern stereos come with remotes now also so they could be hidden under a seat or someplace.
  I tested an AM/FM CD USB 1/8th stereo jack in my Cherokee. It was 120.00 from Walmart made by Sony and it works great! I really like having the USB. I picked up some real tiny SanDisk 8 GB "Cruser Fit" flash drives to load off my computer. Hours and hours of my favorite tunes, I just hit shuffle on the stereo and I'm only listening to what I like. No need to compress files there is so much memory you can get really good sound quality and the phone is out of the loop. (Even with the factory 1989 speakers it's not bad until high volume.) Unlike 10 years ago there are lots of options, if your careful matching RMS ratings and selecting high sensitivity speakers I doubt you'll need a large draw Amp to add for higher volume. 

[bill440rt]

Nice clean install, Tom! 

Yep, those are the underdash mount brackets. You can mount the faceplate anywhere: under dash, recessed in the visor, console, etc.
It's perfect for classic cars, hot rods, etc.

[twodko]

Thanks Bill. I only posted this up because Banana Dan now owes me a royalty
for touting his most excellent original install. 

[Lord Warlock]

I appreciate the suggestions, the secret audio solution is very likely what i will eventually go to in the future, i like the fact that it has the smaller controllers that can be hidden out of sight while also making it compatible with apple products (don't have an Iphone, although i do have an Ipad Mini and an old Itouch that won't hold a battery charge anymore.)  Meanwhile, I was checking the parts express site to see if the exciters were in yet and ordered a few items from them.  

Ordered 6 exciters (basically a speaker without a cone)
ordered a 4x50wpc RMS BOSS amp, small and not that powerful but will likely suit my needs for the occasional times i take the charger out
also ordered a Dual media HU (https://www.parts-express.com/dual-xr4115-usb-sd-media-receiver-with-35mm-input-remote--267-5002) that has AM/FM, USB, and SD inputs (no cd-which i don't use anyway), only reason why i got that item was that it was on clearance for less than 50.00  and I can use it till I get the secret audio stereo after I get the car back on the road.  Currently the car doesn't even have a battery so won't be playing much in it for a while.  But it will allow me to mount the amp and run the wires with the seats out while getting it ready for the road.  

It will be interesting seeing if the exciters actually work anywhere in the charger, I was surprised how well they sounded when i put them in the daughters car, and they didn't fall off even when she jumped a parking curb and took out a tire.  Right now I figure I'll put one on each door panel on the inside, two behind the rear seat side panels, and two more either on the package tray itself, or on the bracing for the rear seat...or maybe mount a couple under the dash when I take it apart to install the new dash pad I got. 

They should arrive in about 5-10 days so we'll see what they sound like after they get here.  I can always add other speakers if i'm not happy with them.  At 12 bucks apiece they weren't that expensive to start with.  

[Lord Warlock]

Is the round puck thing a wireless controller?  Picked up a cheapo 3 way speaker box from pep boys today to fit under the package tray, hope it fits, if it doesn't I'll get the smaller 2 way box instead,  it has 2 10 inch woofers 2 midranges and 2 horn tweeters, hate the fact that its chinese, but pretty much everything is these days, but at 59.95 it fit into the discount stereo plan fairly well.  I don't mind spending the price for the secret stereo, but want to have the car drivable before i spend money for that system.  Its almost drivable now.  Only have to finish minor paint sanding and buffing, put the brake fluid in and bleed the brakes then seal off the fuel tank return line at the tank and get some gas and a battery.  Have an old battery but not sure if it will turn the 440 over. 

[bill440rt]

Is the round puck thing a wireless controller?  

Yes, that is the remote for the SecretAudio.

[BrianShaughnessy]

Years ago I hacked the crap outta the rear deck on Sinnamon to put some 6x9 Jensen co-axs in there....    it was ugly.  But the package tray had old shag carpet and speaker grills so nobody saw what I did     I probably did the same hackjob crap to Black Betty 10 years ago but ...  eh...  it's covered up by the package tray.

So when I got her back we saw my old handiwork and at the same time my old wrecked jeep was getting parted,  another friend was parting some POS honda that had this nifty metal frames for 6x9 speakers in the back.    Cut. cut, weld, weld and now they're in there.    I don't have a real good pic of them specifically.    This is just a crop from a pic when we sprayed the truck bed liner inside a few weeks ago.   

Anyway,  this time around I won't be spending $400 on a retro radio conversion - it just wasn't worth it.    I'll just buy $100 clarialpisonyasonic from best buy and hack up a old radio plate. 

 

[bill440rt]

Years ago I hacked the crap outta the rear deck on Sinnamon to put some 6x9 Jensen co-axs in there....    it was ugly.  But the package tray had old shag carpet and speaker grills so nobody saw what I did     I probably did the same hackjob crap to Black Betty 10 years ago but ...  eh...  it's covered up by the package tray.

So when I got her back we saw my old handiwork and at the same time my old wrecked jeep was getting parted,  another friend was parting some POS honda that had this nifty metal frames for 6x9 speakers in the back.    Cut. cut, weld, weld and now they're in there.    I don't have a real good pic of them specifically.    This is just a crop from a pic when we sprayed the truck bed liner inside a few weeks ago.   

Anyway,  this time around I won't be spending $400 on a retro radio conversion - it just wasn't worth it.    I'll just buy $100 clarialpisonyasonic from best buy and hack up a old radio plate. 

 

I've got the same hack/shag carpet combo in my '68 as well, Brian.
I can see the speaker opening mods in your pic a little, I think. Great idea. One of these days I'll get around to fixing my package tray, too.

[Lord Warlock]

Sadly, the speaker enclosure I picked up yesterday doesn't fit, its too tall to get into position, the two sections from the package tray that stick down inside the trunk keep it from getting into position, even though the box itself is probably short enough to sit there, it won't go into position so will have to rethink it.  They have a smaller unit that should fit ok,  but now I have a box i can't use, suppose i can always stick it in the challenger instead. 

It looks like i'll have to cut the speaker holes a little to get the speakers into the rear deck, just trial fitted them, they only need to sink in further about a quarter inch to sit flush so it shouldn't be too much cutting, but i want them to sit flat under the package tray board so will do what i have to. 

[twodko]

Dremel tool will show you the path grasshopper.