Buddy Baker and the 1969 Dodge NASCAR drivers: where's Hollywood?

[Crazy Larry]

I was rereading "Supercars: the Story of the Dodge CHarger Daytona and the Plymouth Superbird" and it hit me - Chapters 2 and 3 read like a movie.

The story of how the engineers and rocket scientists got together and created this wing car in the wind tunnels  is intriguing.

When Buddy Baker breaks the 200 MPH barrier - has the same feeling as "The Right Stuff" when Chuck Yeager brakes the sound barrier.

Then there is the drama of the Taledega 500 - when half of the NASCAR drivers walk out on the race due to track conditions.

Then there is the further drama of how the new Daytonas were too fast, with too much down force and they were ripping their tires apart - so the evil Ford team in their Talladega's continued to defeat the Dodge team in the few races left for the year.

It isn't until the last race of the year December 7th 1969 (when the team, and its engineers, desperately needed a win to save face)- in a race full of action, suspense and drama (read the final paragraphs of Chapter 3) - Bobby Isaac's  Daytona finally took the checkered flag.

The rest is history as NASCAR is changed for ever.



WHERE IS HOLLYWOOD ON THIS ONE?!
This movie would play like "The Right Stuff" meets "Rudy"

[tan top]

  :iagree:i thought it was a excllent book, fascinating storeys & photos that i had never seen before, i also think it would make a good movie ,even if it is just for us MOPAR/CHARGER/ROADRUNNER, guys.

[Crazy Larry]

:iagree:i thought it was excllent book, fascinating storeys & photos that i had never seen before, i also think it would make a good movie ,even if it is just for us MOPAR/CHARGER/ROADRUNNER, guys.

I already have it down for a scrrenplay project - but it will have to get in line - God, so little time, so many damn things to do!

I could see it coming into reality as a somewhat smaller production - kind of like that made-for-ESPN movie "3" about Dale Earnhardt.

Very doable if the right script can be forged together.

....indeed!

[69_500]

Do able yes, but trying to get enough people with cars from that era that would allow you to shoot them running around a track is highly unlikely. Considering you'd probably have to buy enough cars and clone them into Daytona's, 500's, Superbirds, Talladega's, and Cyclone Spoiler's to have enough cars to make it look like a race. Not likely, but possible if you had a large enough budget.

[hemigeno]

So all we need to do then is get Steven Spielberg or Ron Howard hooked on Mopars!

[69_500]

I'd prefer Ron Howard personally. Or even better George Lucas. Considering Ron Howard was already a part of one of the greatest Automobile films ever made, in American Grafitti.

[hemigeno]

I'd prefer Ron Howard personally. Or even better George Lucas. Considering Ron Howard was already a part of one of the greatest Automobile films ever made, in American Grafitti.

As was Lucas - you're right, maybe they're a better combo.  Lucas to produce, Howard to direct.

[69_500]

Yeah I mean American Grafitti is awsome, and it was Lucas' first movie to do, and well Ron Howard is doing great as a director now too. They seem to be a very good combo.

Only thing is you know that Ron Howard would put his brother in the movie somewhere. Was any of the Nascar Drivers short and bald? If so i'm guaranteeing his brother would get that part.

[hemigeno]

Cale Yarborough...   

[hotrod98]

Clint Howard would be perfect for that part.
Maybe us cloners could put some stock car wheels on and a few decals and fake hood pins and get out there on the track. I'm sure they could speed the film up just a little for realism.
Would make for a nice vacation down in Forida. Count me in. Maybe I'll have both finished by then.

[Ghoste]

If they can make a giant ape climb a skyscraper and sink the Titanic, they can certainly recreate the glory of wing cars in NASCAR.

[Mike DC]

                               

I'd prefer Ron Howard personally. Or even better George Lucas. Considering Ron Howard was already a part of one of the greatest Automobile films ever made, in American Grafitti.

And then there was that guy who directed of "American Graffiti" . . .

               

[Crazy Larry]

Well, Geroge Lucas produced and Francis Ford Coppola directed "Tucker: the Man and His dream" which was outstanding in recreating the 1948 Tucker and the era in which the events occured.

Clint Howard as Cale Yarborough is perfect! I laughed out loud when I read that.

I was reading how, for the remake of Gone in 60 seconds (the crap one with Nicholas Cage) - they ordered 5 '67 Mustang G/T clones to be made by this Hollywood company and they delivered them all to the set.

There are Hollywood car companies that will make anything you want nowadays.

But to keep the budget down and resonable, you'd have to find a way to gel both old Stock Car racing footage from the day with close-up real time action of the actors racing the clone cars.

In a way, since the wing cars are new in the movie - all you need is 6 or 7 of them made (and re-use them with different decals and paint). Remember the movie ends when they win the first race in Dec 1969 - so the dozens of wing cars on the track don't come around until the next year 1970.
From there, you'd just need 2 or 3 of the rival Ford or Chevy cars each - those plus the you movie wing cars should make for some pretty realistic pit scenes and tight cameras shots of the bumping and drama of the track.

Ultimately, you need about 15 cars made for the movie - not cheap, but doable.

[Crazy Larry]

Just slap on a small blonde hairpiece - you're good to go!

[hemigeno]

Nah, just a blonde dye job and a '70s comb-over hairstyle will do the trick...

[THE CHARGER PUNK]

 do the movie on the winged warriors hell i would go see it in theatres like 30 times over call it ''DAYTONA:what speed looks like''

[69_500]

Well there was plenty of the Daytona's on the track in 69, after the Talladega race anyways. Not as many as there were in 1970, but I'd think you'd want to have about 15 or so total, with about 10-12 of the Talladega's on the track at the same time and a few Cyclone Spoilers. Throw in a chevy or two at the back of the field and call it realistic for the era.

[Crazy Larry]

Well there was plenty of the Daytona's on the track in 69, after the Talladega race anyways. Not as many as there were in 1970, but I'd think you'd want to have about 15 or so total, with about 10-12 of the Talladega's on the track at the same time and a few Cyclone Spoilers. Throw in a chevy or two at the back of the field and call it realistic for the era.

I was thinking that to ull it off, you could go to historical footage when showing the entire field - and just use your 7 real Daytonas built for the film for closer shots with the actors/stuntmen.

The same with the Talledega's - go with half of them for the action shots - the wide shots will utillize historical footage.

But that is for the action shots - I was think when it came to pre-race scenes or post-race scenes - then you could put out a nationwide call for wing car clones - and line them up, so you could have dialogues sequences with the background of 15 Daytonas. That would work out pretty good 'cause the owners of the clones wouldn't have to worry about their cars getting banged up or scratched.


I love the crack on the Chevy's - that was funny 

[69_500]

I see what your saying about the historical footage. But I don't know who has a lot of historical footage of when the winged cars were actually on the tracks. I know that the races that were run back then were cut and then shown on TV, wasn't the first live race shown in full later on in the 70's?

[Mike DC]

             
It would be cool, but the price would be pretty high for the potential box-office take.  In the last 25 years, Hollywood has lost the ability to do action stuff cheaply. 

Seriously, they spent over $50 million dollars making last summer's big-screen "Dukes of Hazzard" movie.  (And even after you add up the price of Jessica Simpson and buying the whole fleet of Dodge Chargers and other cars, all that stuff probably accounts for less than $10 million of it.)

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Wanna talk about movies waiting to happen?

Why the hell aren't they doing a major A-list starring biopic on Dale Earnhardt?

             

[Crazy Larry]

I see what your saying about the historical footage. But I don't know who has a lot of historical footage of when the winged cars were actually on the tracks. I know that the races that were run back then were cut and then shown on TV, wasn't the first live race shown in full later on in the 70's?

There are copanies that make huge profits off of leasing or renting out historical footage of different events. If you want footage from Superbowl II, for a price you can have it. The same goes for NASCAR throughout the years.

In movies such as "Vanishing Point", or "Speedway" - historical NASCAR footage was used, and those were races from the mid 60's. I know that whenever there was a NASCAR race, many cameras were rolling with 16mm film (which was the popular medium of the day). I think the reason why we haven't seen much wing car historical footage is because no one has found a project which would allow them to sift through the millions of feet of 16mm film that has been archived from these races.

You are right, I don't think they went "live" or aired ful races until the 70's.

So, all it takes is the right project with the budget to get access to the sports memorabilia companies that own the rights to old NASCAR footage from 1969.

and remember, Richard Petty was driving for Ford at the Time, and it wasn't his best of years, so most racing documentaries that are made - usually skip right over the 1969 year, because they aren't usually covered in-depth.

This is why I am so intrigued by this 1969 Dodge team story - it doesn't feature Richard Petty, who in my opinion, was a great driver but doesn't need to be covered in EVERY NASCAR movie/documentary ever made.
In fact, did you see the "American Muscle" episode on the Seed Channel hosted by Brian Goldberg - they covered the Superbird and told of its story, but NEVER mentioned the Charger Daytona once. They just picked up with the Richard Petty Left Plymouth storyline, and Plymouth created this wing car to get him back. They totally forgot to tell why he left Plymouth - the Charger Daytona. That made me so mad to see the engineers and the car get overlooked for a big shot name.

That's why, if this movie were to get made, it should be only about 1969 and the Charger Daytona - the start of it all that would change history in NASCAR forever.

[Crazy Larry]

             
It would be cool, but the price would be pretty high for the potential box-office take.  In the last 25 years, Hollywood has lost the ability to do action stuff cheaply. 

Seriously, they spent over $50 million dollars making last summer's big-screen "Dukes of Hazzard" movie.  (And even after you add up the price of Jessica Simpson and buying the whole fleet of Dodge Chargers and other cars, all that stuff probably accounts for less than $10 million of it.)

agreed - that is why this movie would have to be made outside of Hollywood. It seems that over inflated salaries usually take for 60% of the total budget.

But today, there are ways of getting hstorical pictures done.

Walk the Line - $29 million
Tucker: The Man and His Dream - $25 million

granted these are racing action pics - but we aren't trying to remake "Days of Thunder" here (and that was made for $60 million)
If you tone down the action to select parts of the film, and make it outside of Hollywood - it is doable.

And the movie "3: The Dale Earnhardt Story" staring Barry Pepper is about as big budget and A-list of a film that you will get. IT's actually nto that bad, has its flaws, but it could've been much worse.

[Mike DC]

       
I liked the Barry Pepper Earnhardt movie.  Barry himself did a very good job. 

But it should've had twice the budget, some script improvements, and a full theater release.  Dale's death was also kind of roughly tacked-on at the end.  (You could tell it was still too recent & painful for the filmmakers to really know how it should be handled yet.)

The movie would have sold a lot more tickets than some of the high-profile Biopics (like "Ray") that have been given lots or prestige lately.

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I just looked it up, and "Herbie: Fully Loaded" took $50 million to make according to the estimates.  I think that's comparable to what it would take for Hollywood to make a decent wing-car movie. 

For "Herbie" they had to buy a lot of customized cars to use on some big-oval racing scenes, some computer effects, and a reasnably low-budget movie otherwise.  The stars had to be sorta recognizeable and act decently, but they probably didn't amount to much money. (Yeah Lindsay Lohan & her boobs are minor stars, but she probably still wasn't very expensive at the time they bought her.  That was probably 2-3 years ago when the contracts were being signed.)

           

[Crazy Larry]

       
I liked the Barry Pepper Earnhardt movie.  Barry himself did a very good job. 

But it should've had twice the budget, some script improvements, and a full theater release.  Dale's death was also kind of roughly tacked-on at the end.  (You could tell it was still too recent & painful for the filmmakers to really know how it should be handled yet.)

The movie would have sold a lot more tickets than some of the high-profile Biopics (like "Ray") that have been given lots or prestige lately.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
   
I just looked it up, and "Herbie: Fully Loaded" took $50 million to make according to the estimates.  I think that's comparable to what it would take for Hollywood to make a decent wing-car movie. 

For "Herbie" they had to buy a lot of customized cars to use on some big-oval racing scenes, some computer effects, and a reasnably low-budget movie otherwise.  The stars had to be sorta recognizeable and act decently, but they probably didn't amount to much money. (Yeah Lindsay Lohan & her boobs are minor stars, but she probably still wasn't very expensive at the time they bought her.  That was probably 2-3 years ago when the contracts were being signed.)

           

Oh she was expensive enough - plus Michael Keaton and Matt Dillon costaring aren't that cheap either. But the movie had 4 screenwriters - 'cause that is how Hollywood tries to save a piece of junk (throw more writers in the mix) and also 7 producers (who all get paid a 6 figure salary for the film).

Then you have to add all the scheduling and filming of the real NASCAR drivers and the big names (jeff gordon, dale jarrett, etc.).

But, I would estimate that at least 20% of the budget was spent on advertising/after production costs - the movie was plastered all over major media prime time outlets for months. That's how it got exposure enough to pull in just enough money to break even and then some (65 Million reported was the total gross before DVD).

"Days of Thunder" cost $60 to make back in 1990 - all for the same reasons - high price actor (Cruise), producers (Bruckheimer/Simpson) and modern day NASCAR scheduling/stars.


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With a wing car movie - you have a great story minus the high glamour and glitz of todays NASCAR. You could go to alternate tracks that don't have the advertisments and licensing fees of todays tracks - and make them over to look like 1969 for cheap.

It all can be done but outside of the Hollywood system - therefore you won't have to use up to half of your budget just to pay the big name stars, 7 producers, and 4 screenwriters.

My best guess is that a quality wing car movie could be made for $25 million - if filmed with a small budget mentality. Now that isn't cheap - but in a world where King Kong's can be made for $200 + that is a bargain and a half. And remember, "Tucker the Man and His Dream" was only made for $25 Millions - sure it was back in 1987 - but it was recreating 1948 America - not chep to do, but they pulled it off with great production planning and quality but affordable actors.

And best of all A Wing Car Movie has a built-in audience - EVERY NASCAR fan alive! Something "herbie Fully Loaded" never could have in a million years. So advertising is simple and easy - just one 30 second spot during a Superbowl would have every car enthusiast drooling at the box office with anticipation.

[tan top]

.

And best of all A Wing Car Movie has a built-in audience - EVERY NASCAR fan alive! Something "herbie Fully Loaded" never could have in a million years. So advertising is simple and easy - just one 30 second spot during a Superbowl would have every car enthusiast drooling at the box office with anticipation.

   

[Mike DC]

       
I get what you're saying.  That's true to an extent.  A lot of Hollywood's current $50 million dollar movies are really $25 million dollar movies with names & marketing added onto them.  (But a movie's marketing budget is usually talked about with a different statistic these days, separate from the direct production cost.  I think with "Herbie F/L" the $50 million bucks was just the direct production cost.)

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But you gotta remember that NASCAR fans are typically working/middle class, hetero, religious, and living in Red states.  Hollywood's market research software is programmed to automatically omit these groups from the statistics.

If we want a NASCAR movie to get made about the 1969 season, our best hope would be to write a story about a gay black driver who must overcome the sport's racism & confederate flags & homophobia.  Teaching bigoted hicks a lesson = Oscars.

         

[THE CHARGER PUNK]

i though richard petty left plymouht because of the charger 500?

[Ghoste]

The Daytona actually.  Fords extremely generous cash offer didn't hurt either.

[hemigeno]

The Daytona actually.  Fords extremely generous cash offer didn't hurt either.

I also read that the Pettys wanted the exclusive race/HP parts distributorship that Ray Nichels had at the time, and that this was part of the "package" that brought him back to Plymouth.

[Ghoste]

I hadn't heard that but it makes sense and certainly fits in timewise because that was exactly what he became around that time wasn't it?
Hard to believe they didn't hand it to him after 1967 without being asked.

[Crazy Larry]

But you gotta remember that NASCAR fans are typically working/middle class, hetero, religious, and living in Red states.  Hollywood's market research software is programmed to automatically omit these groups from the statistics.

If we want a NASCAR movie to get made about the 1969 season, our best hope would be to write a story about a gay black driver who must overcome the sport's racism & confederate flags & homophobia.  Teaching bigoted hicks a lesson = Oscars.

         

How true is that?! Now all you have to do is pitch it to someone in H'Wood and tack on a "based on a True Story" tag - you are now the current hot writer in movie land!

I always looked at Petty as being a bit of a downer this time in 1969 when the Daytona came into existence. That is why I like the cumulative story of all the Dodge drivers in 1969. It is one of the true NASCAR stories that doesn't include the name "Petty." Not knocking him, after all he did drive a Charger in 1972 - but it would be nice to see some of the other names like Buddy Baker, Richard Brickhouse, and Bobby Isaac get some big spotlight movie recognition for a change.

[69_500]

Well this topic sure went from a simple interview with some people to an all out Hollywood production. The whole task is definately do able that is true. Yeah it could be done for a lot less than $50 Million if you ask me. To me the prices of Hollywood movies are like the prices the White House puts out for their budget with $400 toilet seats and such. Much inflated from reality.

[69_500]

Something close to this will actually be shot here soon. It will be a sit down interview with many NASCAR drivers from the aero car era. Just to let you guys know.

[Ghoste]

Is there going to be anyone we know closely involved with the production??

[69_500]

Well its just more going to be a videotape of a few legends of the era sitting down and talking about that era. Hoping to get at least a 3 camera shoot of it.

[tan top]

awesome  , 

[WINGR]

Sounds great 69_500, can't wait.