Gear Vendors

[7TTA]

DodgeCharger members,
I have a 69 RT/SE (440 4 bbl, 727 with 3.55)  that I am digging out of storage after a long and messy divorce. 
It's a horrible silver green (originally A4 silver) so I am giving it new paint, most likely B7 blue.
I want to keep the original 727 so I am installing a Gear Vendors OD.

My question is regarding the manual control, or gear splitting.
If I understand this correctly, for manual control I would need to install a 2nd foot switch.
GV recommends installing this where the current dimmer is and then moving the dimmer to the right.

To manually shift through the 6 available gears I would need to shift the 727 and GV simultaneously.
1st I don't think I'm that coordinated to do this smoothly.
2nd I don't know if I really need this other that the 4th gear.

If you have a GV unit, how did you configure the shifting controls and what do you recommend?
thank you
Mike

[red79]

As I understand it, while it is technically possible to split each gear and end up with 6 forward gears with the GV, the acrobatics required make this clumsy for everyday driving, and largely unnecessary. As you stated, the main benefit of the box is for OD cruising at highway speeds. It can also be nice to split *one* gear at WOT at the track, letting you fine-tune your rear end/tire size/converter combo etc to a more specific powerband and gear spread. 

[7TTA]

Thank you for response.
My understanding is that the GV unit does not "communicate" with the main transmission.
It operates completely independently.
It engages at 47, then disengages at 35 (in the auto mode)
my current thought is to dispense with the manual mode entirely, so the rocker switch would be "auto/off" rather than "auto/manual"
I could add a dash mount manual rocker, as well, but I am uncertain that I would ever use it.

[Kern Dog]

The marketing guys at GV try to sell people on the gear splitting aspect but I see no benefit to it. Who has the lightning fast responses to switch back and forth like that???
I switch manually. Sometimes I leave the OD on all the time. This keeps the 3.91 at a 3.05 ratio. The car has enough torque to run around at that ratio fine. For more "giddyup", I'll leave the OD off and then engage OD at cruising speeds.

[68X426]

Mike - I leave mine in the "on" position all the time, have never shifted manually (gear split).  I don't see the point except to use the OD as intended (4th gear, and the 4.10s become 3.20).  The builder mounted the switch on the dash.  I don't like it but it's done, and always on.

[RECHRGD]

The marketing guys at GV try to sell people on the gear splitting aspect but I see no benefit to it. Who has the lightning fast responses to switch back and forth like that???
I switch manually. Sometimes I leave the OD on all the time. This keeps the 3.91 at a 3.05 ratio. The car has enough torque to run around at that ratio fine. For more "giddyup", I'll leave the OD off and then engage OD at cruising speeds.

X2.  That's exactly what I do.  If you have a B&M or Hurst shifter, GV has those handles with a built in switch for the OD.  I had one for awhile and really liked it.  When I changed my shifter I went with the foot switch and it's fine once you get used to it.....

[John_Kunkel]

Decide the gear-splitting advantage for yourself, here's the numbers:

1st gear = 2.45
1st gear with GV=1.91
2nd gear= 1.45
2nd gear with GV= 1.13
3rd gear= 1.00
3rd gear with GV= .78

[7TTA]

thank you guys
my thinking is crystallizing, as they say.
the ratios really tell the story.
I'll set this up for the 4th speed overdrive, but skip the gear splitting

[Kern Dog]

Decide the gear-splitting advantage for yourself, here's the numbers:

1st gear = 2.45
1st gear with GV=1.91
2nd gear= 1.45
2nd gear with GV= 1.13
3rd gear= 1.00
3rd gear with GV= .78

For an engine with a very narrow power band, the gear splitting would help. Also, if it were done automatically in conjunction with the transmissions own shifting function. I'm simply not quick enough to switch around so fast AND I doubt I'd need to.

[Brass]

One possible advantage I see to splitting gears might be the ability to kick down into 2nd overdrive when you're already cruising outside the RPM range to drop all the way down into 2nd.   

[Mike DC]

 
Is it possible to make the GV stay in either of its ratios all the time, no matter what speed you are running, even from a stop? 

Somewhere I got the idea it wouldn't engage the OD gear until a certain minimum speed.  Like it was a mechanical requirement because of the necessary fluid pressure or something.

The device would appeal to me a lot more if you could choose to manually leave it in one or the other gear and not have it jumping up & down on its own as your speed changes.  You could just think of it as an electrical switch to change the axle gear. 

   

[7TTA]

I believe that you are correct, that you cannot engage the overdrive if the vehicle speed falls below 5mph.
If you have the OD manually set, the computer will disengage the unit and light the red light.
I don't know why they wont let you run it as a 2 speed rear.

[Kern Dog]

Mine has a panel with a green light and an amber one. Green means the GV is in OD. Amber is direct drive non OD. I am able to keep the OD on at all times, switch off at any time for passing, turn on at any speed....It is that way with mine anyway. I have a 3.91 diff, 3.05 in OD. I sometimes forget I'm in OD when leaving a traffic light, wondering why the car feels slower....

[John_Kunkel]

 
Is it possible to make the GV stay in either of its ratios all the time, no matter what speed you are running, even from a stop? 

No OD at a stop because the OD is engaged by fluid pressure from a pump inside the GV unit, if the trans output shaft ain't turnin' the pump ain't pumpin' and no pump means no OD. There is a road speed at which the internal pump won't supply enough pressure to keep the OD engaged.

[hemi68charger]

Here's the GearVendor installation in my '69 Charger Daytona. It was relatively painless.......

As far as the configuration, leave it simple. Yes, you can "split" the 3 gears, but that's a pain in the butt...... I have it in either of two modes; on or off. Also, I didn't use the floor-mounted-dimmer-switch-looking-thing. I used the harness, but routed it under the dash and used a small black toggle switch next to the steering column mounted to the bottom of the dash frame. That way, it is easily accessible, out of the way/sight and you don't have a 2nd "dimmer switch" down there on the floor.

When I'm cruising around the streets of my community, i just leave it off. When I'mgoing to go cruising on the highway, then I just flip the switch on. It automatically shifts into OD at around 45 mph. With the 4.10's I have, I get into 3rd real quick. The GV was the best thing I did to the car to make it more enjoyable..

[7TTA]

Guys
thank you for your input
this is a great forum

[hemi68charger]

opps..

I forgot to paste my installation thread..   

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,76597.0.html

[Kern Dog]

 
Is it possible to make the GV stay in either of its ratios all the time, no matter what speed you are running, even from a stop? 

No OD at a stop because the OD is engaged by fluid pressure from a pump inside the GV unit, if the trans output shaft ain't turnin' the pump ain't pumpin' and no pump means no OD. There is a road speed at which the internal pump won't supply enough pressure to keep the OD engaged.

I can't say how it works, but the car leaves the line in 1st OD if I leave the OD on. Explain that one.....

[hemi68charger]

 
Is it possible to make the GV stay in either of its ratios all the time, no matter what speed you are running, even from a stop? 

No OD at a stop because the OD is engaged by fluid pressure from a pump inside the GV unit, if the trans output shaft ain't turnin' the pump ain't pumpin' and no pump means no OD. There is a road speed at which the internal pump won't supply enough pressure to keep the OD engaged.

I can't say how it works, but the car leaves the line in 1st OD if I leave the OD on. Explain that one.....

Mine leaves from true 1st gear and shifts into overdrive at 45mph. At about 15 mph, it downshifts/releases, into the 727's lower gears. 9 times out of 10, you don't even know it's happening......

[flyinlow]

So with a G.V. do you get a Hi and low reverse?   

[John_Kunkel]

Gear-splitting explained:

http://www.gearvendors.com/operationtips.html

[1974dodgecharger]

So with a G.V. do you get a Hi and low reverse?   

I bet they do.....

Nothing against GV but for the price vs rpm saved is very expensive.  It would be a very last item for me after my hood turn signals.


Based in what people are saying they spin 3k going 80mph in 2nd gens.  I can spin that with 30 diameter rears in mine then again I have a manual. 

[7TTA]

30" rears ??
what tires are you running on your 74?

[lukedukem]

DodgeCharger members,
I have a 69 RT/SE (440 4 bbl, 727 with 3.55)  that I am digging out of storage after a long and messy divorce. 
It's a horrible silver green (originally A4 silver) so I am giving it new paint, most likely B7 blue.
I want to keep the original 727 so I am installing a Gear Vendors OD.

My question is regarding the manual control, or gear splitting.
If I understand this correctly, for manual control I would need to install a 2nd foot switch.
GV recommends installing this where the current dimmer is and then moving the dimmer to the right.

To manually shift through the 6 available gears I would need to shift the 727 and GV simultaneously.
1st I don't think I'm that coordinated to do this smoothly.
2nd I don't know if I really need this other that the 4th gear.

If you have a GV unit, how did you configure the shifting controls and what do you recommend?
thank you
Mike

Let's see some pics of this car

Luke

[7TTA]

OK I'll post em up

[Cooter]

30" rears ??
what tires are you running on your 74?

I think he was just making a point about how he can Dr o the same thing a helluva lot cheaper with uber tall tires.

[1974dodgecharger]

What cooter said 

With 30inch tall tires I spin 2700 at 80mph I now have 28inch tires and spin 3k at 80mph just to show u a diff a rear size tire makes vs a OD unit and its price.

[John_Kunkel]

Tire size isn't changeable on the fly.

[Troy]

Tire size isn't changeable on the fly.

We need a "completely missing the point" smiley...

Troy

[68X426]

A 30 inch tall tire is great for highway travel, but wouldn't it kill street driving/hot rodding?  And hurt the efficiency of the combined motor/gearing/shift points?

What's the point of a hot motor when the effective final gearing (30 inch tire) is well under a 3.00 ratio?  Would not the engine be lugging around in too low an rpm range most of the time, and be a laggard right when you want applied power?

I think the obvious answer is that one has to be sure to match tire height to the selected gear ratio, the cam's effective rpm range, and the type of driving one does.  30 inch tires can have consequences on performance and streetability.

[1974dodgecharger]

Tire size isn't changeable on the fly.

But i dont have 4k cash either on the fly  

[1974dodgecharger]

Uu uhhh yeah, but i was giving OP some options thats all.  U guys act like we have tons of money lying around and sleeping in it like magic Johnson here.


Sure if i had cash just like that i would get GV but i dont unless u guys want to give it to me so i dont hurt performance on my car  ill be more than happy to take yo cash and put a GV unit in my vehicle.

A 30 inch tall tire is great for highway travel, but wouldn't it kill street driving/hot rodding?  And hurt the efficiency of the combined motor/gearing/shift points?

What's the point of a hot motor when the effective final gearing (30 inch tire) is well under a 3.00 ratio?  Would not the engine be lugging around in too low an rpm range most of the time, and be a laggard right when you want applied power?

I think the obvious answer is that one has to be sure to match tire height to the selected gear ratio, the cam's effective rpm range, and the type of driving one does.  30 inch tires can have consequences on performance and streetability.

[Troy]

Uu uhhh yeah, but i was giving OP some options thats all.  U guys act like we have tons of money lying around and sleeping in it like magic Johnson here.


Sure if i had cash just like that i would get GV but i dont unless u guys want to give it to me so i dont hurt performance on my car  ill be more than happy to take yo cash and put a GV unit in my vehicle.

A 30 inch tall tire is great for highway travel, but wouldn't it kill street driving/hot rodding?  And hurt the efficiency of the combined motor/gearing/shift points?

What's the point of a hot motor when the effective final gearing (30 inch tire) is well under a 3.00 ratio?  Would not the engine be lugging around in too low an rpm range most of the time, and be a laggard right when you want applied power?

I think the obvious answer is that one has to be sure to match tire height to the selected gear ratio, the cam's effective rpm range, and the type of driving one does.  30 inch tires can have consequences on performance and streetability.

Yes BUT... the OP has already decided to use the Gear Vendors and was looking for specific answers about it. Throwing out irrelevant opinions just clutters the thread. One reason why I hate asking technical questions on a forum - I get 50 opinions about something I never asked.

Troy

[Sublime/Sixpack]

Agreed!

[68X426]

U guys act like we have tons of money lying around and sleeping in it like magic Johnson here.

Is your gas cheap?  Mine sure isn't.  Whether or not you have a ton of money lying around (I do hope times get better for you), you spend plenty on gasoline just like all of us.

My point is that the tall tire can (and probably does) hurt performance on the street, lugging the motor, and likely using more gas.  So as an "efficiency" option, the tall tire may not accomplish better use of your gas dollars.  Just needs to be investigated closely.  It's about bang for the buck, and GV is not the smartest purchase one can make, but it certainly works great.

Excuse me while I go sleep in my Larry Bird money.

[John_Kunkel]

Tire size isn't changeable on the fly.

But i dont have 4k cash either on the fly  

Where's the SOL emoticon when you need one?

[7TTA]

lets see if I can post jpg

[7TTA]

one more time

[7TTA]

Notice horrible silver green paint.  F3 I think.  I hate it.  I was going to paint car J6 1971 Green Go/Sassy Grass but son will get the car one day and he doesn't like the Green Go, so we compromised on B7 blue.
note tires are Goodyear Eagle short track race specials.  I had them retreaded with rain tire/hard tread so I could run them on the street.  Put them on stock car Bassett steel race wheels.  What I didn't know about this project was a lot. 
Race wheels take 45 degree lug nuts, not 30 degree lugs nuts.
Which they don't make in left hand thread, so I needed new studs on the left side of the car.
And you have to run inner tubes because they leak, they are not a 40,000 mile tire.
They looked stunning and were terrifying to drive.  Wanted to change lanes in the ruts.  Scary.
I was trying to sort out handling, but D came and ex-wife's boyfriend slashed them, so that was the end of that failed experiment.

I'm ordering BFG Radial T/As in 235 and 275 60x15s here in a couple weeks.
I'm also ordering 15x7 and 15x8 1968 Magnum 500 wheels.

will post some photos when I get car out of garage and in new rubber

[hemi68charger]

...
note tires are Goodyear Eagle short track race specials.  I had them retreaded with rain tire/hard tread so I could run them on the street.  Put them on stock car Bassett steel race wheels.  ....

will post some photos when I get car out of garage and in new rubber

How did that turn out? I was thinking of getting some Eagle Dirt Racing tires ( basically short track tires with tread ) on my Daytona for special occasions..... Did they get real soft with the heat generated from usual driving on the streets and sling rubber everywhere?

[7TTA]

I know the Ford Cobra guys will run race tires on the street.
I bought my tires and had them retreaded all in one step (Towel City Race Tires, NC) so I never ran them in the soft compound.
I talked to Goodyear about running race tires on my 70 Trans Am and they suggested running the Vintage tires which have a harder compound and tread.

I ran a 27x8 front on 15x8 wheel and 4.5BS and 28x10 rears on 15x10s with 5.5BS.
they fit and looked great, but like I said they tended to want to change lanes.

I think you would be fine with the hard factory tread

[randy73]

I put a rebuilt 46RH w/2200 stall converter for less than half of GV's cost and mine is .69 OD. I looked at a car with GV in it, I understand it is a pain to drive around town.

[Kern Dog]

The Mopar factory overdrive transmissions all require cutting and welding to properly fit our classics.