Difference between standard 440 and the 440 magnum?

[lloyd3]

I think I know this one, but maybe I don't. It is my understanding that the first 440 blocks were cast in late 1966 for the 1967 model year (1st HP versions used in the GTX and R/T Coronet, but not in the Charger). Thru 1971, the 375 hp Magnums were cammed differently, had bigger intake valves, bigger carbs, and dual exhaust. The distributers were different as well (dual-points in the HP motors). The oil pans for the B and E bodies had a different sump location and had windage trays. Four speed cars had a bigger fuel line (same as the hemi).  Magnum blocks had either HP or HP2 stamped on the distributer pads. Six pack versions were a whole 'nuther story (outside of this inquiry).

What have I missed? 

[Cooter]

The 440 'Magnum' in 1967 ONLY had a ONE YEAR ONLY closed chamber '915' head with the larger 1.740 EXHAUST valve. The intake valves never went past 2.080 for the entire run through 1978.

The '440 LP' version was a 350 HP engine, while the '440 Magnum'  was rated at 375 HP.
there were TWO different '915' heads. LP and HP. The low perf. Head came through with 1.060 exhaust valves.

As far as I know, the 440 came through in auto or manual with a 3/8" fuel line.

[Sublime/Sixpack]

To the best of my knowledge only the Six Pack 440 Magnums came with the dual point distributor. The four barrel HP 440's had the single point unit.

[ITSA426]

In '67, at least, the dual point distributors were used only on the four speed 440s.  The 375 HP magnum engine was used in 132 four speed Chargers and, I believe, 568 automatic Chargers in 1967.  They are XP29L7 cars.  The 2806178 intake manifold can be found on 66 C bodies equipped with 350 hp 440s.

[don duick]

does anyone know how far below the deck the pistons sat on a 440 magnum and if they had valve cutouts. I know they had 10.25 compression

[Cooter]

I've seen all 8 pistons be at different measurements. One might be .030, one might be at .020.
I think they were like .020 in the hole.

[lloyd3]

Dual points for four speeds in '68 as well. Other than the smaller exhaust valves on the 350 HP motors, what added the additional horsepower for the Magnum motors?

[ACUDANUT]

"Magnum" was just a cool word back in the day. Most 440's back in the late 60's and early 70's could make 375 HP.  It really depended on your Cam, Carb and Exhaust.

[Cooter]

I think the thread was referring to stock engines, not modded. A 440 could make 375 hp with just a cam swap back then.

[John_Kunkel]

does anyone know how far below the deck the pistons sat on a 440 magnum and if they had valve cutouts. I know they had 10.25 compression

Piston deck height varied with the year, because of the lower volume closed chamber heads the '67 pistons were about .090" down, the '68-'69 with open chamber heads were about .050" down. In '70-'71 they lowered the compression to 9.7-1 by using the '67 piston in open chamber heads. In '72 the compression reached its lowest (8.2-1) and the piston was about .150" down.

The '70-'71 six pack was the only 440 piston with valve reliefs and the piston sat about .020" down.

True maximum horsepower numbers for the muscle car years is deceptive, while the 440 Magnum might have actually produced 375 horsepower at a certain RPM who's to say it didn't make more horsepower at a lower or higher RPM?

[tan top]

   found this on a 67 440  , while looking for stuff for another thread !!   

[Lord Warlock]

single point for 69 RT automatic. 

[lloyd3]

Thank you Tantop! That about covers it.  Acudanut's answer is shorter and easier to read, but is no less accurate.  Carb, cam, and exhaust seems to account for the reported additional 25 horses in essentially-stock trim. 

[cudaken]

Dual points for four speeds in '68 as well. Other than the smaller exhaust valves on the 350 HP motors, what added the additional horsepower for the Magnum motors?

Smaller exhaust valves where used on all BB and RB motors from (1967 except the 440 HP with 915 heads) and earlier. (Not Counting The Maxie Wedges) In 1968 and on forward all BB and RB blocks shared the same heads with the bigger exhaust valves. The 906's heads with larger exhaust valves where used on the 383 2 barrel, 4 barrel rather a 440 or 383 HP motor.

Cuda Ken

[lloyd3]

You folks are always a wonderful resource, thank you. I see I was wrong about no 440s in '67 Chargers, my apologies. I'm fairly comfortable with the fact about dual-points in all the 440 4-speed cars. When I researched putting a hemi crate motor in my car in the early 2000's, the only difference I could find between the factory 4-gear hemis and the 440 4-speed cars was the boxed-in frame rails on hemi bodies. Otherwise, they had the same 18-spline transmissions, 9 3/4 rear-ends, brakes, fuel-lines, radiators, etc. Ma Mopar knew how the 4-gear cars were going to be used and tried to design around it.

[ACUDANUT]

I think the thread was referring to stock engines, not modded. A 440 could make 375 hp with just a cam swap back then.

What gets me is, some people are looking for a HP block.  They think they are better. Really ?

[lloyd3]

Are there any really bad 440s? By bad I mean less-desireable.

[hemigeno]

You folks are always a wonderful resource, thank you. I see I was wrong about no 440s in '67 Chargers, my apologies. I'm fairly comfortable with the fact about dual-points in all the 440 4-speed cars. When I researched putting a hemi crate motor in my car in the early 2000's, the only difference I could find between the factory 4-gear hemis and the 440 4-speed cars was the boxed-in frame rails on hemi bodies. Otherwise, they had the same 18-spline transmissions, 9 3/4 rear-ends, brakes, fuel-lines, radiators, etc. Ma Mopar knew how the 4-gear cars were going to be used and tried to design around it.

Here are a couple of differences between the two engine applications:

> In 1969, 440 / 4-speed cars used a 5/16" fuel line (even though they used a 3/8" pickup at the tank) while the 426 / 4-speeds used a 3/8" fuel line

> Same year - 440 w/ 3.54 Dana (i.e. 4-speed) cars received a 2-row 26" radiator (055) and 426 / 4-speed / 3.54 cars were bumped to the 3-row 26" radiator (054).  Both 440 & Hemicars, when equipped with a 4.10 Dana, got the 054 radiator.

As for the differences in '69 Hemi vs. Wedge unibody frame construction, there are several - all on the back half of the car.

[green69rt]

Maybe more info than you want to read....

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/383.html

[lloyd3]

Lots of information, for sure. Thank you for that. I believe I've read that engine history before somewhere, many years ago.  

I didn't mean to say that the hemi and 440 4-speed cars were exactly the same, just surprisingly similar. Unless you were intent on creating a fraudulent clone, you wouldn't need all of the hard points, snubber-plates, and hanger brackets mentioned in Hemigeno's excellent illustration.  Interesting that the 69 4-gear cars fuel-lines shifted from 3/8th at the fuel tank to 5/16th at the front of the car. Did the 68s do that as well (I suppose I could go out and measure mine sometime)?  

The snow is gone and it was 66 degrees here today. It's supposed to snow again tomorrow, but it seems we're through the worst of it now.  Time to contemplate what needs to be done this Spring to get going for the season again.  My car is overdue for a complete tuneup (plugs, points, wires and cap/rotor) and either a carb rebuild kit or a complete re-do with new bushings pressed into the body at the pivots to repair 45-years of wear and tear.  Would that a tuneup on my own body was so easy.

[ACUDANUT]

You folks are always a wonderful resource, thank you. I see I was wrong about no 440s in '67 Chargers, my apologies. I'm fairly comfortable with the fact about dual-points in all the 440 4-speed cars. When I researched putting a hemi crate motor in my car in the early 2000's, the only difference I could find between the factory 4-gear hemis and the 440 4-speed cars was the boxed-in frame rails on hemi bodies. Otherwise, they had the same 18-spline transmissions, 9 3/4 rear-ends, brakes, fuel-lines, radiators, etc. Ma Mopar knew how the 4-gear cars were going to be used and tried to design around it.

Here are a couple of differences between the two engine applications:

> In 1969, 440 / 4-speed cars used a 5/16" fuel line (even though they used a 3/8" pickup at the tank) while the 426 / 4-speeds used a 3/8" fuel line

> Same year - 440 w/ 3.54 Dana (i.e. 4-speed) cars received a 2-row 26" radiator (055) and 426 / 4-speed / 3.54 cars were bumped to the 3-row 26" radiator (054).  Both 440 & Hemicars, when equipped with a 4.10 Dana, got the 054 radiator.

As for the differences in '69 Hemi vs. Wedge unibody frame construction, there are several - all on the back half of the car.

Are we talking engines or bodies ?.  Nobody said anything about a numbers matching machine.

[lloyd3]

No numbers matching here. Just comparisons.  The post drifted from engines to bodies.