This world is going straight to hell...

[Tilar]

The only plausible scenario for serious domestic trouble today is major civil unrest at home being put down by our own forces, possibly with some outside help depending on the circumstances. 

You won't see that happen by our military or local police either one. The only ones that will even try are the generals that obama put in place this last year when he replaced the ones he knew might take his ass out of office, but even replacing those generals still leaves a lot of military personnel that will stand true to the oath they took.

[bull]

At some point troops would have to be put on the ground. It would be interesting to see some kind of study or report on how it might happen. Assuming our soldiers would agree to killing us would this hypothetical war be fought at a distance from other countries? Because with every fort being surrounded by civilians you'd think the military would be plagued by logistical problems and widespread guerrilla-style attacks. Seems to me it's been a long time since a country has been wildly successful in putting down a domestic uprising.

Sadly I think too many people in this country are too lazy, disconnected and in denial to concern themselves with protecting the ideals the Founders put in place. We have extremists on both ends of the spectrum who care about their agendas and the rest are caught in the middle feeling so helpless that their give-a-damn has broke. Meanwhile the governments work tirelessly to incrementally erode our freedoms under the guise of security. It seems like a no-win scenario.

[twodko]

All of our observations as to any scenario are moot because the government has Sats. There is little the population could do that would go unobserved. If you can see it, you can hit it. As to "outside" help I believe this would come from Cuba and Mexico.

In other news.....

I just brought home my new Mossberg SA 20 auto loader 20 gauge with a synthetic pistol grip stock. Getting tagged by 20 gauge steel shot or a slug is probably real unpleasant.

[myk]

I've met more than one policeman or military person who has stated that they would back the government regardless of how contraversial their orders would be.  I don't know if this is just local gun-shop macho-talk or what, and personally I don't see America's own troops turning on its civilians, however the idea that some men and women in this country would have no problem turning their weapons on another for the sake of the government is unnerving...

[ws23rt]

I've met more than one policeman or military person who has stated that they would back the government regardless of how contraversial their orders would be.  I don't know if this is just local gun-shop macho-talk or what, and personally I don't see America's own troops turning on its civilians, however the idea that some men and women in this country would have no problem turning their weapons on another for the sake of the government is unnerving...

The sad truth is people will turn on their own when told to. Even if it is just an experiment to test the notion.

I recall an experiment with students split into two groups---jailed and jailer--  This was an around the clock test and after a few days the experiment was called off due to over the top abuse of the jailed.  When one is given power the risk of abuse is tough to control and when all on the side of the power work together they tend to cover for each other to hide what they have done.

When power is given it must be independently monitored and checked as needed.  A persons vow or oath to do the right thing is not enough.

Remember the folks that engineered the production style of killing to maximize the productivity of it?  They were people given the power and the propaganda that allowed them to do their work and do it well.

BTW when someone takes an oath and is given power and they abuse that power and those that should check that power do nothing about it it makes sense that many will get angry enough to put their life on the line to fix the cancer.

[twodko]

Bottom line.......drink the coldest beer, enjoy the best BBQ, love your family and do others as you'd want them to do you.

[ws23rt]

Bottom line.......drink the coldest beer, enjoy the best BBQ, love your family and do others as you'd want them to do you.

 It is as simple as that.  Let's start voting for regular folks to do what us regular folks vote for them to do and if they misbehave spank them with a recall vote.

[bull]

Regardless of our odds at winning, if we hold.firm to our 2nd Amendent rights we'll be in a much better position than if we don't. I wouldn't necessarily fight knowing we would win but I would fight on principle hoping to win. I wouldn't just lay on my back and piss myself.

[twodko]

Ws, your heart is in the right place.......IMO. Recall means nothing as you know. "Spank them" must be a metaphor for disappearing them. I see little other choice. This speaks clearly to Bull's bottom line. Once committed it must be to win despite the futility of any such endeavor.

They are reading as we type. Please prepare my bail......if I'm given one.

[ws23rt]

Ws, your heart is in the right place.......IMO. Recall means nothing as you know. "Spank them" must be a metaphor for disappearing them. I see little other choice. This speaks clearly to Bull's bottom line. Once committed it must be to win despite the futility of any such endeavor.

They are reading as we type. Please prepare my bail......if I'm given one.

I agree that recall means--little-- but not nothing. It is the first step in expressing a point.  The spank them would be the result of a recall which is they are gone from power.  It is unfortunate that all of this is just symbolic but we the public have a tool box that is just a cresent wrench and a screw driver.  That we are individually weak does not mean inaction. Those in power bank on the weakness of the individual.  When we vote we are using the tools in our box. When we protest we are starting to use tools that make those given power nervous. When we start to die they get very nervous but still hang on.  It's a tough call when those in power abuse it. Our system is supposed to protect us from this.  It seems that it is not working like designed.

[twodko]

Proof of your words live in the hearts of the people of Kiev.

[Tilar]

I've met more than one policeman or military person who has stated that they would back the government regardless of how contraversial their orders would be.  I don't know if this is just local gun-shop macho-talk or what, and personally I don't see America's own troops turning on its civilians, however the idea that some men and women in this country would have no problem turning their weapons on another for the sake of the government is unnerving...

I believe that there will be some that will back government, but I'd put money on at best 25% might. That gives you roughly 250,000 that potentially would go against the citizens. There are probably 150 million Americans that would fight back. Odds are in Americas favor.

Besides, Even if it did come down to our military going against the citizens, Your goal would not be to beat the military; that would be futile and a waste of time because the people pushing their agenda are still there. The goal would be to get at and do away with those pushing this agenda.

[Mike DC]

  
Ultimately it's all more of a gun lover/survivalist fantasy than a real threat to happen.  The country has problems but this kind of civil unrest is not the shape things would take to manifest it.  Not in the foreseeable future.

[myk]

Regardless of our odds at winning, if we hold.firm to our 2nd Amendent rights we'll be in a much better position than if we don't. I wouldn't necessarily fight knowing we would win but I would fight on principle hoping to win. I wouldn't just lay on my back and piss myself.

Agreed.  Disarmament or any form of it to even the slightest degree is the biggest mistake any people can make.  Whenever people say that it wouldn't be so bad I ask them to think if disarmament was a great thing for the Jews of the 30's and 40's in Germany or anywhere else in the world.

I've met more than one policeman or military person who has stated that they would back the government regardless of how contraversial their orders would be.  I don't know if this is just local gun-shop macho-talk or what, and personally I don't see America's own troops turning on its civilians, however the idea that some men and women in this country would have no problem turning their weapons on another for the sake of the government is unnerving...

I believe that there will be some that will back government, but I'd put money on at best 25% might. That gives you roughly 250,000 that potentially would go against the citizens. There are probably 150 million Americans that would fight back. Odds are in Americas favor.

Besides, Even if it did come down to our military going against the citizens, Your goal would not be to beat the military; that would be futile and a waste of time because the people pushing their agenda are still there. The goal would be to get at and do away with those pushing this agenda.

I hope you're right.  Nevertheless, this topic brings up the equally unnerving conversations I've had with military and law-enforcement personnel who staunchly believe that citizens should not be able to bear arms of any sort.  Gives me the freaking shivers....

[bull]

 
Ultimately it's all more of a gun lover/survivalist fantasy than a real threat to happen.  The country has problems but this kind of civil unrest is not the shape things would take to manifest it.  Not in the foreseeable future.

Maybe. It may also be.that too many people are in denial or too proud to believe what's happening in Vevezuela and the Ukraine can happen here. It won't happen here? When it comes to liberty I think it best to err on the side of caution.

[Tilar]

   
Ultimately it's all more of a gun lover/survivalist fantasy than a real threat to happen.

Mike, I pray to God that you are right, but the realist in me says you're wrong.

[polywideblock]

the  Ukraine is free, opposition leader released from prison,  president has fled .but it not over yet

[Mike DC]

 
I'm not saying it's utterly impossible to happen in the USA.  I'm just saying it is not currently much of a threat.  Conditions are simply way too good right now and the inertia of world events probably wouldn't collapse them here in too rapid of a timeframe.  

People worry about the US dollar collapsing, being invaded by China, attacked by terrorists, etc. 
The people who actually could collapse our dollar are too far into bed with it to want that to happen in any rapid uncontrolled fashion.  Nobody is gonna invade us because nobody powerful enough to do would really be better off for trying.  Terrorists can be lethal but they are better at causing brief panics than genuinely threatening civilization.  

[Tilar]

 
I'm not saying it's utterly impossible to happen in the USA.  I'm just saying it is not currently much of a threat.  Conditions are simply way too good right now and the inertia of world events probably wouldn't collapse them here in too rapid of a timeframe. 

People worry about the US dollar collapsing, being invaded by China, attacked by terrorists, etc. 
The people who actually could collapse our dollar are too far into bed with it to want that to happen in any rapid uncontrolled fashion.  Nobody is gonna invade us because nobody powerful enough to do would really be better off for trying.  Terrorists can be lethal but they are better at causing brief panics than genuinely threatening civilization. 

  I hate to say it because of the potential to shut a good thread down, but you're messiah isn't on your side.

[twodko]

 
I'm not saying it's utterly impossible to happen in the USA.  I'm just saying it is not currently much of a threat.  Conditions are simply way too good right now and the inertia of world events probably wouldn't collapse them here in too rapid of a timeframe.  

People worry about the US dollar collapsing, being invaded by China, attacked by terrorists, etc. 
The people who actually could collapse our dollar are too far into bed with it to want that to happen in any rapid uncontrolled fashion.  Nobody is gonna invade us because nobody powerful enough to do would really be better off for trying.  Terrorists can be lethal but they are better at causing brief panics than genuinely threatening civilization.  

Precisely so. The global monetary system is just that....Global. If one country's financal system/stock market goes down, every country's stock market/financial system takes a similar hit. Our country is in dire financial straits because stupid people forgot what a costly mistake Vietnam was and used 911 to do it all over again......IN TWO COUNTRIES!

[Mike DC]

I hate to say it because of the potential to shut a good thread down, but you're messiah isn't on your side.

My Messiah?  

You mean that clown in the white house?  He's another useless career politician doing what they do best.  


I only ever defend BO because he scares me less than his predecessor and IMO he's constantly getting bashed for the wrong reasons.  I dislike biased viewpoints dominating the public discourse.  Far-biased viewpoints are fun but they aren't wise.  It leads to even worse decision making in the future.  

[moparsr2fast]

  Is it possible that there is an overall agenda to elminate the sovereignty  of this country in the long term, in order to evevtually set up a one world government?

[polywideblock]

Google   UN  Agenda 21   

[Tilar]

I hate to say it because of the potential to shut a good thread down, but you're messiah isn't on your side.

My Messiah? 

You mean that clown in the white house?  He's another useless career politician doing what they do best. 

I guess I took some of your posts as support for his actions, which is what brought on the above statement. Sorry for assuming.

 Is it possible that there is an overall agenda to elminate the sovereignty  of this country in the long term, in order to evevtually set up a one world government?

Not only is it possible, they are trying right now to make it happen without the masses going full tilt bozo all over them.

[twodko]

"I only ever defend BO because he scares me less than his predecessor and IMO he's constantly getting bashed for the wrong reasons.  I dislike biased viewpoints dominating the public discourse.  Far-biased viewpoints are fun but they aren't wise.  It leads to even worse decision making in the future."

Very well said Mike. My thoughts as well.