This world is going straight to hell...

[Tilar]

I hope Nacho is safe.

http://caracaschronicles.com/2014/02/20/the-game-changed/


EDIT: I saw he was just on. I wonder what the hell is happening?

[myk]

Why hasn't the world gone ga-ga over what's happening there? 

[twodko]

Same same in Kiev. The people just want to align with the west not the old eastern bloc way of life. Both governments are deathly afraid of losing their strangle hold over the citizenry. The fat cats want to keep their 1%.

The same oppression is building in the U.S. IMO

[bull]

This story emphasizes once again the need for protecting our 2nd Amendment rights. Some say the Founders' ideals were fine for the time but outmoded today, yet here it is 2014 and governments continue to rise and fall with the general population taking the brunt of the violence. I don't know about you all but I'm not giving an inch toward further gun control measures in any way, shape or form.

[twodko]

X2

[redmist]

x3

After watching video of protesters getting a successful mobility kill on an APC with nothing but gas and bottles...  Imagine if each of them was armed with an AR-15 as well.

The Government is afraid if it's citizenry.

[Mopar Nut]

This story emphasizes once again the need for protecting our 2nd Amendment rights. Some say the Founders' ideals were fine for the time but outmoded today, yet here it is 2014 and governments continue to rise and fall with the general population taking the brunt of the violence. I don't know about you all but I'm not giving an inch toward further gun control measures in any way, shape or form.

You need to move to Utah then, we are one of the last states protecting our 2nd Amendment rights.

[hawkeye]

"When governments fear the people, there is liberty, when the people fear the government, there is tyranny".  Thomas Jefferson

[Cooter]

From my cold, dead, fingers.......come and get me copper.....

[MoParJW]

I had no idea, the only thing I hear from the media is about Ukraine.

[myk]

This story emphasizes once again the need for protecting our 2nd Amendment rights. Some say the Founders' ideals were fine for the time but outmoded today, yet here it is 2014 and governments continue to rise and fall with the general population taking the brunt of the violence. I don't know about you all but I'm not giving an inch toward further gun control measures in any way, shape or form.

You need to move to Utah then, we are one of the last states protecting our 2nd Amendment rights.

I just might do that; I'm sick of looking at my neutered Colt AR-15 and matching Beretta 92F.  How's the snow over there? 

[skip68]

   x10.   stay safe Nacho.   

[Old Moparz]

You won't hear about it if you follow the major media corporations. (There's only about 6 anyway) Besides, relations between Venezuela & the US is in shambles. You want to see US media coverage or involvement? Wait until the chaos escalates & everything is even more unstable than it is now. The US will pay attention at that point because there is big profit for the media & the military contractors on the horizon.   

[Dino]

Nacho please tell us you're in Spain right now...

[myk]

Nacho please tell us you're in Spain right now...

I can't even fathom the idea of stepping out into the streets and facing the very real possibility of being beaten to death by your neighbors or the government that was supposed to protect and serve you; if there's a hell on earth it would be THAT situation...

[Tilar]

x3

After watching video of protesters getting a successful mobility kill on an APC with nothing but gas and bottles...  Imagine if each of them was armed with an AR-15 as well.

The Government is afraid if it's citizenry.

As it should be.

Same same in Kiev. The people just want to align with the west not the old eastern bloc way of life. Both governments are deathly afraid of losing their strangle hold over the citizenry. The fat cats want to keep their 1%.

The same oppression is building in the U.S. IMO

I agree. I really expected things to erupt a couple years ago. I just don't see another year going by without a serious uprising. All that would need to happen is organization and it would be on.

[Mike DC]

  
Would we worry about the US military's ability to handle a foreign nation, just because the citizens have widespread pistols & rifles?  Hell no.  So why would be radically different if the USA were the nation being "handled?"  It wouldn't.  Personal firearms won't do much.  Not against a reasonably well-funded modern military that is willing to inflict some collateral damage on noncombatants to get the job done.  Just ramp up the drone strikes on anything that even resembles trouble, send in the special op forces for specific jobs, keep the soldiers & tanks highly visible in the streets, and maintain it.


Now, other civilians?  Local & small time police/military activity?  
Yeah, that is a very legit reason to want personal firearms in a chaotic situation.  I'm as much in favor of gun rights as the next guy here.  

[Mopar Nut]

This story emphasizes once again the need for protecting our 2nd Amendment rights. Some say the Founders' ideals were fine for the time but outmoded today, yet here it is 2014 and governments continue to rise and fall with the general population taking the brunt of the violence. I don't know about you all but I'm not giving an inch toward further gun control measures in any way, shape or form.

You need to move to Utah then, we are one of the last states protecting our 2nd Amendment rights.

I just might do that; I'm sick of looking at my neutered Colt AR-15 and matching Beretta 92F.  How's the snow over there? 

It's almost gone here in Northern Utah.

[Old Moparz]

 
Would we worry about the US military's ability to handle a foreign nation, just because the citizens have widespread pistols & rifles?  Hell no.  So why would be radically different if the USA were the nation being "handled?"  It wouldn't.  Personal firearms won't do much.  Not against a reasonably well-funded modern military that is willing to inflict some collateral damage on noncombatants to get the job done.  Just ramp up the drone strikes on anything that even resembles trouble, send in the special op forces for specific jobs, keep the soldiers & tanks highly visible in the streets, and maintain it.


Now, other civilians?  Local & small time police/military activity?  
Yeah, that is a very legit reason to want personal firearms in a chaotic situation.  I'm as much in favor of gun rights as the next guy here.  

True, the 2nd Amendment won't mean much in regards to the current abilities of the US military. If anyone thinks otherwise, they may as well be living in a cave in Afghanistan.

[twodko]

All true Mike DC. There will be a large percentage of our armed forces, state and local LEO's that will refuse to take up arms against fellow Americans. It will still be a bloodbath that will decimate this country.
The hardcore military and political hawks will deploy what military resources that WILL kill the citizenry, use drones and turn lose the private security and/or corporate armies to kill us.

It won't be a race war either it will be a class war.

The idea of people moving to pro-freedom/2nd amendment friendly states will be seen as "containment" areas by the government especially in interior states. Corral us kill us. Seaboard areas would have to be taken and secured otherwise outside supply just won't happen.

[bull]

The 2nd Amendment was instrumental in preventing the Japanese from.launching an invasion on the  US mainland during WWII. Remember the "gun behind every blade of grass" quote? I don't believe the US military would walk over its populous as easily as some think. In addition to the mammoth number of weapons and ammo rounds in the hands of private citizens there's a huge number of ex-military who know exactly how it would go down. Also, how many short-timers will be willing to bomb the crap out of grandma's hometown?  Trying to maintain peace is one thing but all-out civil war is quite another. We are Americans and our military is not comprised of socialist yes-men (yet) so you can expect many orders to kill American citizens to be questioned or ignored. Even assuming that a tyrannjcal government could coax the military into killing US citizens the privat sector has got a huge advantage in numbers. And who supplies the military? The private sector does. The US military would face huge problems trying to defeat a domestic uprising and there would likely be few people left to govern if it could.

[Mike DC]

Yes, agreed.

[chargerboy69]

The 2nd Amendment was instrumental in preventing the Japanese from.launching an invasion on the  US mainland during WWII. Remember the "gun behind every blade of grass" quote? I don't believe the US military would walk over its populous as easily as some think. In addition to the mammoth number of weapons and ammo rounds in the hands of private citizens there's a huge number of ex-military who know exactly how it would go down. Also, how many short-timers will be willing to bomb the crap out of grandma's hometown?  Trying to maintain peace is one thing but all-out civil war is quite another. We are Americans and our military is not comprised of socialist yes-men (yet) so you can expect many orders to kill American citizens to be questioned or ignored. Even assuming that a tyrannjcal government could coax the military into killing US citizens the privat sector has got a huge advantage in numbers. And who supplies the military? The private sector does. The US military would face huge problems trying to defeat a domestic uprising and there would likely be few people left to govern if it could.

And Bull beat me to it.  Well said Curtis. . . beers and pizza sent to you. 

[Mopar Nut]

The 2nd Amendment was instrumental in preventing the Japanese from.launching an invasion on the  US mainland during WWII. Remember the "gun behind every blade of grass" quote? I don't believe the US military would walk over its populous as easily as some think. In addition to the mammoth number of weapons and ammo rounds in the hands of private citizens there's a huge number of ex-military who know exactly how it would go down. Also, how many short-timers will be willing to bomb the crap out of grandma's hometown?  Trying to maintain peace is one thing but all-out civil war is quite another. We are Americans and our military is not comprised of socialist yes-men (yet) so you can expect many orders to kill American citizens to be questioned or ignored. Even assuming that a tyrannjcal government could coax the military into killing US citizens the privat sector has got a huge advantage in numbers. And who supplies the military? The private sector does. The US military would face huge problems trying to defeat a domestic uprising and there would likely be few people left to govern if it could.

too.

And Bull beat me to it.  Well said Curtis. . . beers and pizza sent to you. 

[Mike DC]

                                         
Its true that invading the USA wouldn't work very well in the conventional sense, partly because we do have a lot of guns.   But that's not how modern warfare & occupations work.  Did the USA do a classic World-War-size invasion in any of the middle-eastern countries?  We do that kind of occupation much shorter on manpower and longer on weapons/vehicles/communications/cooperation with local govts/parties.  

20th century warfare is obsolete today.  Just like cavalry charges & smoothbore muskets were obsolete in the WWII.  It's not just that the weapons have changed, the entire set of priorities about when & where big countries go to war has changed.  



A large scale occupation of a place like the USA is not going to happen, not by some outsider nation.  Russia or China wouldn't do it to us for the same reasons we wouldn't do it to them - it's simply not an efficient way to control/steal resources from a large nation these days.  It's much easier to take over "legally" with economic efforts, as China is doing to us now.  

The only plausible scenario for serious domestic trouble today is major civil unrest at home being put down by our own forces, possibly with some outside help depending on the circumstances.