Vector Rims

[comet_666]

So here is a pic of the older vector rims and the new one..other than color, do you notice a difference?

[Bobs69]

Just the small rise on the outside diameter.

[tsmithae]

Clearancing indentations for the lug nuts.

[ACUDANUT]

They look good to me. 

[comet_666]

Looks like there is a lip of some sort there, is it the angle or shininess of the rim?

[Ghoste]

I think thats just the lighting.

[comet_666]

Not a big fan of the sizing or the shiny finish really. I actually sent an email to American Racing Wheels and here is what he told me.

Good afternoon, how you doing?

The old Vector and the new one does match very very closely.  IN fact, they are pretty much the same finish.  We basically just changed the finish name (used to be "natural black" vs "athractite" but they are the same).

I don't think there are any plans in making them in other sizes to be honest with you.

Thanks

[sanders7981]

Not a big fan of the sizing or the shiny finish really. I actually sent an email to American Racing Wheels and here is what he told me.

Good afternoon, how you doing?

The old Vector and the new one does match very very closely.  IN fact, they are pretty much the same finish.  We basically just changed the finish name (used to be "natural black" vs "athractite" but they are the same).

I don't think there are any plans in making them in other sizes to be honest with you.

Thanks

I don't think he understood what you meant by "old".  I think the rim they are talking about is the one released in 2005, not the vintage one released 30-40 years ago. 

[Mike DC]

  
The old ones from decades ago (at least the ARs if not all the knockoffs) were painted with semigloss black.  

The aluminum was rough-cast finished in the painted areas on the originals, as opposed to smoother finished 21st-century reissues because of how modern ones are made.  That may be why the newer ones seem shinier.


If that's a big deal then you could hit the newer painted areas with a textured or hammered paint finish.  Then go over that with semigloss or satin. 

[myk]

I would've liked to see a Vector in 17 or 18 inches...

[comet_666]

This is what I wrote him:

Is there any way you can inquire on my behalf or point me to the correct person on either custom sizes or having American Racing look into making a more modern size in these wheels, 17in and above? I am part of many Mopar groups and the interest in these wheels in the different sizes is sky high.

Thanks!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is their reply:

That would be me actually – the guy to talk to.

I will bring up this suggestion to my multiple bosses though and they will take a look at it and take it into consideration.

Thanks

[ACUDANUT]

I would've liked to see a Vector in 17 or 18 inches...

Not me. 15 inches is the look.  Chargers are not rice burners.

[comet_666]

I like them all, I just prefer the more modern look with larger rim and lower tire sidewall.

[WHITE AND RED 69]

I would've liked to see a Vector in 17 or 18 inches...

Here is a set, but you don't want to know what they cost.   

[sanders7981]

I would've liked to see a Vector in 17 or 18 inches...

I'd buy a set in that size for my wifes challenger. 

[Mike DC]

 

If they're gonna make larger-scale Vectors (I doubt the demand is very big to be honest) then they oughtta style them better.


When the rim size is dramatically bigger than the original Vectors but the inner circle around the bolts stays the same size, they come out looking too much like wagon wheels.  They need to enlarge that inner bolt circle more in proportion to the outer size.  Maybe they can't re-create the older "dish" offset in modern sizes but they could do this part.

[comet_666]

oh come on!  how much do they cost!

[myk]

I would've liked to see a Vector in 17 or 18 inches...

Not me. 15 inches is the look.  Chargers are not rice burners.

Yeah, because anyone rolling with anything bigger than 15 inches is a "rice burner," just like these guys:

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/1203phr_1968_dodge_charger/

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/744737/1968-dodge-charger/

Freaking rice burners man...

[Dino]

If they're gonna make larger-scale Vectors (I doubt the demand is very big to be honest) then they oughtta style them better.


When the rim size is dramatically bigger than the original Vectors but the inner circle around the bolts stays the same size, they come out looking too much like wagon wheels.  They need to enlarge that inner bolt circle more in proportion to the outer size.  Maybe they can't re-create the older "dish" offset in modern sizes but they could do this part.

Exactly!  I would love a scaled up version of the originals.

[Cooter]

17" would bout far as I'd take them....anything ed lse, and they look stupid...see pic above....

[ACUDANUT]

If they're gonna make larger-scale Vectors (I doubt the demand is very big to be honest) then they oughtta style them better.


When the rim size is dramatically bigger than the original Vectors but the inner circle around the bolts stays the same size, they come out looking too much like wagon wheels.  They need to enlarge that inner bolt circle more in proportion to the outer size.  Maybe they can't re-create the older "dish" offset in modern sizes but they could do this part.

Exactly!  I would love a scaled up version of the originals.

That's because your a young _ _ _.

Never mind.

[Mike DC]

 
17" rims with decent tire sidewall height looks more old-school than 15" rims wearing rubber bands. 

[ACUDANUT]

Why not go with 22 inch rims.  Big pimpin.

[lukedukem]

They're different.

Luke

[SwiftJonny]

Here's a close up shot of my classic vectors.  I've seen the new ones before, they look too pretty and smooth.  These suit the old beast much better.

[comet_666]

Yah, they look slightly textured. I broke down and ordered mine, will have them on Thurs. Sending rears out to be widened to 10.5 inches. I'll post pics.

[sanders7981]

 

[MaximRecoil]

I would've liked to see a Vector in 17 or 18 inches...

Here is a set, but you don't want to know what they cost.   

Those aren't Vector wheels, nor do they follow the Vector design. The only thing they have in common with Vector wheels is that they have 10 spokes. Every other aspect of the design is different, the most obvious being the mostly straight spokes instead of the curved/dished spokes of a Vector wheel. Also, the outer rim has a totally different contour, the inner ring/hub area is flat rather than dished like on Vector wheels, and the trapezoidal-shaped cutouts between the spokes are way off too; they are proportionally too large (as well as extending completely to the sides of each spoke) and they aren't rounded on the corners.

As for original Vector wheels from the '70s and '80s, they came from the factory completely unpainted, or with the recessed rough-cast areas painted black, gray, or gold (matte [or "satin" at the most] paint regardless of the color). It wasn't the rough-cast surface that made the paint look matte, because if you paint a rough-cast surface with glossy paint, it will look glossy, just look at the vintage Vector wheels that Detroit Vintage Wheels refurbishes:



By comparison, here is an original Vector wheel with its original paint:



As of about a year ago, the re-reissued Vector wheels that American Racing is making are finally available with a proper matte/satin black finish (though the glossy "anthracite" that the 2005 reissues had is still available as well). This is what the new black ones look like:



They are smooth-cast rather than rough-cast, but that's a minor difference I could live with. However, they inexplicably refuse to put the raised lip on the outer edge of the rim like the originals had, and that's a difference I couldn't live with.

I find it bizarre that any Charger owner would want these in a size larger than 15". Pretty much every Charger owner that wants this style of wheel got the idea from the "General Lee" (granted, there may be a few guys out there who put Vectors on second-generation Chargers prior to January 26, 1979, but I suspect they are rare as hen's teeth), but when you stretch them toward "dubs" status, they no longer look like General Lee wheels, but rather a caricature of such. So if someone doesn't want their wheels to look like General Lee wheels, what attracted them to Vectors in the first place?

[ACUDANUT]

"I find it bizarre that any Charger owner would want these in a size larger than 15". Pretty much every Charger owner that wants this style of wheel got the idea from the "General Lee" (granted, there may be a few guys out there who put Vectors on second-generation Chargers prior to January 26, 1979, but I suspect they are rare as hen's teeth), but when you stretch them toward "dubs" status, they no longer look like General Lee wheels, but rather a caricature of such. So if someone doesn't want their wheels to look like General Lee wheels, what attracted them to Vectors in the first place?"

AMEN

[WHITE AND RED 69]

I would've liked to see a Vector in 17 or 18 inches...

Here is a set, but you don't want to know what they cost.   

Those aren't Vector wheels, nor do they follow the Vector design. The only thing they have in common with Vector wheels is that they have 10 spokes. Every other aspect of the design is different, the most obvious being the mostly straight spokes instead of the curved/dished spokes of a Vector wheel. Also, the outer rim has a totally different contour, the inner ring/hub area is flat rather than dished like on Vector wheels, and the trapezoidal-shaped cutouts between the spokes are way off too; they are proportionally too large (as well as extending completely to the sides of each spoke) and they aren't rounded on the corners.

I find it bizarre that any Charger owner would want these in a size larger than 15". Pretty much every Charger owner that wants this style of wheel got the idea from the "General Lee" (granted, there may be a few guys out there who put Vectors on second-generation Chargers prior to January 26, 1979, but I suspect they are rare as hen's teeth), but when you stretch them toward "dubs" status, they no longer look like General Lee wheels, but rather a caricature of such. So if someone doesn't want their wheels to look like General Lee wheels, what attracted them to Vectors in the first place?

Yes, they are not true vectors but you can't fault people for trying something new. There are thousands of generals on 15" vectors, if someone wants to go with a different look and make it their own then why not? 

Did they make an exact vector, well no but remember that these wheels are custom and are built to the owners specs. These are on offs, not mass produced one size fits all. I'm sure if the owner asked them to make the curves different they would have but that's how the owner wanted them. But with the width of these and how deep they are if the spokes went all the way to the lip then it would just look like a big salad bowl. 

Original vectors come in 15x7 and 15x8 and have 2 maybe 3 variations in backspaces. so by going custom the backspacing choices are unlimited, whether you want to do a general lee drag car with 15x15's inch wheels or a pro touring general with 18x12's, it just opens the market to do what the owners vision is.

I see nothing wrong with owners doing something different and running with new ideas 

[ACUDANUT]

That is a Bad Ass looking Charger !  
The rear end needs to come up about 3 inches.

[comet_666]

I think they look good either way..

[sanders7981]

^^^^^^Nice looking charger!  I am not entirely sold on the outer lip of the new Vectors and how they are smooth, but after seeing them on your ride above I am starting to like them.   I need to pick up a set before they disappear off the market again. 

[xoman60]

Never been a big fan of 10 spoke vectors but I have to admit they look good on that charger.

[WHITE AND RED 69]

I think they look good either way..

Looks killer!    

[c00nhunterjoe]

My origonal vectors restored.

[MaximRecoil]

My origonal vectors restored.

That wheel was originally "unilug", but the stud holes look round instead of oblong like unilug holes. Was it welded and redrilled to a direct 5x4.5 pattern?

[Cooter]

I'm surprized nobody's thought of putting the newer rim on a lathe and turning a slight 'lip' on the outer edge??

[MaximRecoil]

I'm surprized nobody's thought of putting the newer rim on a lathe and turning a slight 'lip' on the outer edge??

It has been thought of, but I don't know if anyone has done it, or even if it is doable. The lip on the originals protruded probably what, 1/8"? Is there enough thickness on the reissues to safely remove 1/8" of material from that area? Even if there is, it would make the spokes look weird in the area where they merge into the outer rim, i.e., it would put a little "shelf" onto each one, something like this:



It could probably be done by laying down a thick bead around the outer edge of the rim with a TIG welder and then smoothing it up / shaping it into a lip on a lathe.

[ACUDANUT]

My origonal vectors restored.

That wheel was originally "unilug", but the stud holes look round instead of oblong like unilug holes. Was it welded and redrilled to a direct 5x4.5 pattern?

I wonder what that cost to do this.  Great idea. 

[Cooter]

I have seen wheels that had the oval for what appeared to be uni lug, but were drilled for a specific pattern.
I believe the casting molds were just set up on uni lug.

[c00nhunterjoe]

My origonal vectors restored.

That wheel was originally "unilug", but the stud holes look round instead of oblong like unilug holes. Was it welded and redrilled to a direct 5x4.5 pattern?

These are not unilugged or repaired.

[MaximRecoil]

My origonal vectors restored.

That wheel was originally "unilug", but the stud holes look round instead of oblong like unilug holes. Was it welded and redrilled to a direct 5x4.5 pattern?

I wonder what that cost to do this.  Great idea.  

I don't know, but it can be done, and done so well that you'd never know it was done, too. You can see it being done in this video.

I have seen wheels that had the oval for what appeared to be uni lug, but were drilled for a specific pattern.
I believe the casting molds were just set up on uni lug.

These are not unilugged or repaired.

I'm referring to these crescent-shaped cutouts in the "ring" that surrounds the hub area:



Only unilug Vectors had those. Here's a closeup of an unaltered unilug Vector wheel:



And here's an unaltered direct bolt pattern Vector wheel:



So c00nhunterjoe's wheels were either converted to a direct bolt pattern from unilug by a previous owner (which would explain him not knowing about it), or they are a factory anomaly.

[c00nhunterjoe]

My origonal vectors restored.

That wheel was originally "unilug", but the stud holes look round instead of oblong like unilug holes. Was it welded and redrilled to a direct 5x4.5 pattern?

I wonder what that cost to do this.  Great idea.  

I don't know, but it can be done, and done so well that you'd never know it was done, too. You can see it being done in this video.

I have seen wheels that had the oval for what appeared to be uni lug, but were drilled for a specific pattern.
I believe the casting molds were just set up on uni lug.

These are not unilugged or repaired.

I'm referring to these crescent-shaped cutouts in the "ring" that surrounds the hub area:



Only unilug Vectors had those. Here's a closeup of an unaltered unilug Vector wheel:



And here's an unaltered direct bolt pattern Vector wheel:



So c00nhunterjoe's wheels were either converted to a direct bolt pattern from unilug by a previous owner (which would explain him not knowing about it), or they are a factory anomaly.

If they were welded and redrilled then there should be evidence of it either on the front or rear face. I assure you there are no tooling marks on them anywhere. Perhaps they are not american racing wheels? Carrol shelby's perhaps? I dont know enough of the history to tell you for sure. I only assume they are vectors. There is no label or stamp on them other then "15x8.5" and "load rating xxxx" i cant recall the number off the top of my head.

[MaximRecoil]

If they were welded and redrilled then there should be evidence of it either on the front or rear face. I assure you there are no tooling marks on them anywhere. Perhaps they are not american racing wheels? Carrol shelby's perhaps? I dont know enough of the history to tell you for sure. I only assume they are vectors. There is no label or stamp on them other then "15x8.5" and "load rating xxxx" i cant recall the number off the top of my head.

Do they have an emblem that looks like a Mercedes emblem? It can be faint, but to find it; if you look at the backside of the wheel and orient it so that the "15x8.5" is in the 6 o'clock position, and the "max load rating" in the 12 o'clock position, the emblem should be in the 3 o'clock position.

I have read that American Racing made the "Mercedes emblem" ones (I have no idea what that emblem signifies in this case, but I'm pretty sure it is not actually Mercedes). I have also read that American Racing was the OEM for Carroll Shelby Wheels too. I don't know of any vintage Vector-design wheels that weren't manufactured by American Racing. There were some imitations made by Western Wheel that were pretty close, but they had flat centers rather than dished:



And there were the Buick T-Type wheels made by "Modern Wheel" ...



... which were practically identical to Vectors, but they have a raised ring around the smaller hub opening to accept a center cap which pushes on from the front (the center caps for Vectors push through from the inside). Also, they were strictly GM bolt pattern of course.

I have a set of direct 5x4.5 bolt pattern Vectors; one actually has "American Racing Equipment" molded into it on the back, while the other 3 only have the size, max load rating, and the "Mercedes emblem". They are otherwise identical; you can't tell by looking which is the one marked "American Racing Equipment". None of them have the crescent-shaped cutouts in the hub ring.

Did you restore your wheels or did you buy them already restored? If they were restored by a company such as AKH Vintage Wheels or Detroit Vintage Wheels, or some other wheel specialist, they would likely have the skill and tools to fill and drill them without leaving any visual evidence behind. The incentive to do so lies in the fact that direct bolt pattern wheels tend to be more valuable than unilug, and the Ford/Mopar pattern tends to be the most valuable of all for Vectors, because that's what fits a "General Lee".

Of course, it could just be a factory anomaly. Stranger things have happened. I can imagine that if they needed to fill an order for 5x4.5 wheels and they were out of the ones from the direct bolt pattern mold, they might have grabbed some that had come from the unilug mold and drilled a direct bolt pattern into them.

[c00nhunterjoe]

I restored them myself. They were in "70's" condition when i got them. Looked like they came out of a swamp. I dont recall the markings. I will have to pull them off the car to look. I am extremely curious as to what i actually have now.

[MaximRecoil]

I restored them myself. They were in "70's" condition when i got them. Looked like they came out of a swamp. I dont recall the markings. I will have to pull them off the car to look. I am extremely curious as to what i actually have now.

Do all 4 of your wheels have the crescent-shaped cutouts that I circled in the picture I posted earlier?

I painted one of my wheels today (they were all unpainted when I got them). I have 3 more to go:



The unpainted one in the picture is the one that has "American Racing Equipment" molded on the back; the one I painted is one of the 3 that just has the size, max load rating, and the "Mercedes emblem" on the back.

[Cooter]

I could swear I see little 'ledges' at the end of the painted wheel's spokes like it was machined like I suggested...

[MaximRecoil]

I could swear I see little 'ledges' at the end of the painted wheel's spokes like it was machined like I suggested...

Yes, all Vector wheels have slight "shelfs" or "ledges" there (including the new reissues), because the outer rim is machined after being cast (as are the spokes and the "ring" around the hub area), so a little bit of material is removed. In the case of the old ones, the raised lip would have been included in the casting mold, so the machining is only to smooth things out, not to create a lip from a flat surface (which would require removing a lot more material).

With your suggestion, you are starting with ones that have already been machined at the factory (so they already have slight shelfs), and they are completely flat, so you'd have to remove say, 1/8" of aluminum (which is quite a bit), and it would make those shelfs much larger and much more noticeable.