Four speed conversion kits - Passon or Brewer?

[Troy]

Now that Passon's 5spd is being made, does anyone know the fate of his earlier offering, the improved OD 4spd gearset for the A-833?  (It drops right into an existing 4spd case but is better built than the 1970s factory deal.)  Is that still going to be available?  I actually prefer fewer gears on a big torque motor.

They still have both. It's significantly cheaper to replace the gearset than to buy the 5-speed. Of course, if you buy the aluminum case and parts to match you may just be better off buying the 5-speed. Jamie apparently builds a lot of those for road racers (SCCA maybe?).

Troy

[JB400]

Only problems with the 833's that I've heard of is twisting the splines on the tail shafts.

[Mike DC]

Big torque motor really doesn't need a 3.09 first gear of  the early units, if they are still being produced that way.

Put tall gears in the axle and you've got a drivable street car with a very low cruising RPM in overdrive, even though the OD ratio is only like .80 or something.  It's natural that the ratios are widely spread down low and get closer together as they go up.    

 

[Cooter]

3.35 in first,  with T5 in GL. 3.23 gear. Shakes so bad in OD @75 mph you could churn butter on the dash.
first gear useless. I take off in second most times. OD @.68, I have to downshift on hills with 440..

Maybe I screwed up somewhere.

[Troy]

Why are you running 3.23s with an OD? How fast do you plan on going?

With the stock 26" tires and a non-OD trans the engine should be turning at 2,504 RPM at 60 mph. With 28" tires that drops to 2,326 RPM. Factor in the .68 OD and those fall to 1,702 and 1,581. Can you say "lugging the engine"?

Changing to 3.90 rear gears gives 3,024/2,056 OD RPM with stock tires and 2,808/1,909 OD RPM with 28" tires.

FYI - The "go to" rear tire for a second gen Charger is a 275/60-15 which is approximately 28" tall.

Troy

[Mike DC]

 
I don't know what in the hell the OEMs are thinking with some of the ratios they use.   My (5spd 318) Dakota's 1st gear is so low that you literally don't even roll forward the entire length of the vehicle before you start wanting to shift up.  WTF is with that?  And it's not like the gearing is just low in general, the jump to 2nd is so dramatic that it practically demands double-clutching. 

Yeah there's something to be said for a low 1st in a truck, but this is TOO low.   And this spacing seems to be typical for practically everything anymore, truck or car. 

[Cooter]

Why are you running 3.23s with an OD? How fast do you plan on going?

Not very 'fast' at all. Have you seen the price tag on 3.91 8 3/4 chunks today? I can convert a Dana 60 cheaper.
if it vibrates terribly now, with drive shaft speeds in the "sane" area....I can just bet how bad it will vibrate when drive shaft speeds are in the "insane" area...btw: that response was a tongue in cheek reply to OP post.

[darkside]

Has anyone on here ever got a  4 speed from passon?  I'm about ready to buy a hemi 4 speed from either brewers or passon ? Brewers is 6 weeks behind on orders.

[Troy]

Has anyone on here ever got a  4 speed from passon?  I'm about ready to buy a hemi 4 speed from either brewers or passon ? Brewers is 6 weeks behind on orders.

Brewer's is closer to me (only 45 minutes away) so I tend to use them for heavy stuff but I'd have absolutely no problem buying a rebuilt 4-speed from Passon. Pretty much anything at all really.

Troy

[fy469rtse]

Cooter you missed the point , Jamie at passons is like you , he doesn't like hack jobs, his five speed is a stock looking modern internals, fith gear is in the tail section, of unless you had two cars side by side, you wouldn't know, one friend of mine has one in one of his chargers , worth the wait, order it early, the only problem is speedo cable moved to the wrong side to make room for overdrive, he was working on a gear elbow to link speedo cable , otherwise you have to use a C body cable,
If I was doing a manual this is the one I would buy order now to have sitting here for when needed
Light weight machined case
All cnc machining
Overdrive
Stock fitting
I think you don't have mess with your tail shaft length,
My friend hooked up a seqential ratchet shifter, you can't engage reverse only from first, you can't miss a gear, mounted in stock location , he modified linkages to suit, I had a drive and it's great , no noise , smooth feels strong,

[Cooter]

Fy469rose, I think you missed MY point. Drive shaft speeds and vibrations go up once someone decides to dump 3.55-4.10 gears and run an OD trans. I cannot believe this is so hard to grasp that people will spend over 5k to only to find out their stuff vibrates anyway. Even with Passon's bolt in unit.

But you guys go ahead. I'll stick with my $300.00 OD vibrating like hell.

[fy469rtse]

Didn't mean to offend you cooter, great modern retro 5 speed is all that I was getting at , modern internals to get rid of a lot of those vibrations in the original units , especially when older and worn
Passons extra gear and shafts in tail section with all the needed bearings shafts etc to surport those gears sets, thus eliminating slop in out put shaft,
I drove it and it was so smooth , no vibrations , almost like a modern car

[Ghoste]

And 4:10's are precisely why I want one.

[Cooter]

No offense taken. Btw: vibrations have nothing to do with "slop" in gears. Has to do with trying to do the impossible in a car that was never designed to travel at speeds in excess of 90 mph for more than a few seconds.
once the drivetrain begins to turn INSANE  RPMs, poor machining/balancing of stock parts shows up quickly. But, you guys keep trying. I'd be interested in hearing from the one who finally pays out the ass for the latest thing only to find out it shakes horribly like my ole $300.00 swap, and gets it To stop vibrating..

Drive shaft speeds are crazy in OD with 4.10 gears. Not to mention, pinion bearings catch hell. But ya'll keep trying.

[Ghoste]

I'm going to, thanks.

[Cooter]

I'm going to, thanks.

See ya on here whinning bout vibrations.....

[Ghoste]

Wanna bet?  And not only am I going to do it anyway but I'm not going to do it with a 300 pos, I'm going to spend the huge money on the Passon one. 

[66FBCharger]

Did the guys who put the Keisler five speeds into cars with 4.10s have vibration problems? How about the Gear Vendors units? I never read any complaints.

[Ghoste]

I have 4:10's in my 67 right now and I don't have overdrive in it.  How many rpm do you think that driveshaft is turning?  And it doesn't vibrate.  The same rearend ratio at the same speed will turn the same rpm with with or without the overdrive.  The overdrive will mean the engine turns fewer rpm to get the rest spinning at the same speed as before so how do you figure just adding an overdrive will cause vibration?  How fast do y ou think I plan on going?  I'll tell you how fast.  The same speed as before but now at a lower engine rpm and therefore easier on fuel and the engine.

[Cooter]

I don't get it. Why hasn't anybody figured out lower the first three or four gears like many are today to keep drive shaft speeds down?
Doug Nash 5 speed non of comes to mind.

[Cooter]

Wanna bet?  And not only am I going to do it anyway but I'm not going to do it with a 300 pos, I'm going to spend the huge money on the Passon one.  

I hope so, but if what you say is true, I believe his screen name here is 'Paul G' spent 'the big bucks' and has at least one thread on vibrations..... $300.00, or $4k both still vibrate.

[Ghoste]

How fast do you think I plan to go?

[Cooter]

How fast do you think I plan to go?

Lemme see.....$5500.00 for an overdrive. And you plan on driving around town? Most of the stories/threads i see are from driving what's considered 'normal' today @75-85 mph.  Only two reasons people go with OD trans.
1. Lower rpms at higher speeds
2. Better mpg

[Ghoste]

Then you've made assumptions in my case that are wrong.

[Cooter]

Ok Ghoste, whatever. I'll be sure to bring the ketchup AND Mustard for my words.....