bought me hotchkis front and rear bars

[1974dodgecharger]

I got my tears for 280 during an eBay sale  :icon_smile_big:summit was doing 30 percent off on ebay purchases.  Would of got my upper control arms but only had enough for one.

[Dino]

I dont know if I will feel the difference since I dont really turn corners that fast with these tanks we drive!!!!

Got a feeling you might be turning corners a lot faster after the bars go on. Have recently fitted these to both ends of my 69
Charger, with pretty much standard rebuilt suspension, the difference to just having the stock front bar is unbelievable.
The thing is so flat around corners, i love it, just have to upgrade shocks.
cheers

Small hijack...sorry...

I don't have the Hotchkis stuff but have a 1-1/8" bar up front and am trying to decide if I want the 7/8" bar on the rear.  Is the car now more prone to sliding when you throw it in a turn?  

I couldn't say its slides, the front and rear just stay so flat, instead of taking all the weight off the inside rear wheel.

Thanks!  Would you have any reservation driving it in pouring rain?  And I mean that hypothetically in case your car does not see rain.  Just trying to get a feel for this and wondering if it would be wise to install one on a driver.

My car is a driver all the way, rain, hail or shine, the bars will only help with handling wet or dry, the only thing to be careful of is the rear bar has to be smaller than the front one, you don't want the rear taking over/being stiffer than the front.
I think the stock front bar might be a bit small for the Hotchkis rear, but keep in mind the rear is adjustable, with 3 settings soft,med,hard, i have only tried mine on medium, works perfectly.

Once you drive with them you will be hooked.

I don't have the Hotchkis stuff but the old Addco's.  1-1/8" up front and the rear is either 3/4 or 7/8 but still in the box.  I'll bolt them on this spring and see what it does.  Thanks for the advice!   

All are expensive t bar wise pst are like 330 the hotchkis t bars are a better value they give dust boots and the end c clips which pst does not.

Yeah you're right about that; my projected expenses for the suspension upgrades are going to be around $3500 just in parts...

Are you going to race your car???  A stock rebuild would be adequate for a driver, the sway bars are just to make the drive a bit more interesting but if all you do is cruise you are wasting your money on this high priced race stuff.

I only have the big old style Addco front bar and the car already handles great.  Not to race but more than adequate on the open roads.

[1974dodgecharger]

I just got a good price on them  yes I agree I mentioned that before that hotchkis is gonna way beyond the average cruiser.  Will I ever do competitive racing NOPE, but if i can get upgraded parts for cheap I'm all for it.

[Dino]

Nothing wrong with that, I just hate to see people get all caught up in the wonderful world of aftermarket parts and spend a fortune on things they really don't need. 

If you drive the car often then build it so it makes sense for your use.  I'm at that stage where my drum brakes are no longer enough.  They work great but sometimes I'm in traffic for several hours and I do not want to meet Mr. Brake Fade.  ie I don't want to wait and find out when they might fail.  That doesn't mean I need to get 13" drilled and slotted rotors either though.  There's usually an intermediate solution.

[myk]

OK I'm going to say something here that's going to sound completely laughable but if I can't tell you guys then who can I tell?  I want to someday auto-X the Charger along with my Firebird; yeah I know it sounds stupid, but I'd like to see these two machines take to a road course some day.  My sensible side tells me to invest in the Firebird; between the two it's worlds better in the handling and overall performance but...what can I say?  Owning a muscle car means logic and rationale don't typically apply.  I know I'll never reach the levels of MS89Racing or Mr. Angry, but after all of these years I realize that I love my Charger and I want to take the car as far as I can.

With all of that being said, if you guys can recommend a list of parts that doesn't involve something as costly as the entire Hotchkis TVS or the entire list of QA-1 pieces but can still see us to that auto-X course I'm all ears...

[1974dodgecharger]

Myk hotchkis all the way u can buy it one piece at a time which I'm doing. 

The components are meant to compliment each other vs a mis match unless u want to really fine tune your car which is rare in our case unless your msracing who does it competively. I personally say shocks, leaf springs are minimal to enjoy the car better and the  t bars the  go from there.  If your sway bars are in good shape keep em they are fine for daily driver.

Like dino saids don't get caught up in upgrading for the sake of upgrading.  Money on these cars can be spent elsewhere that is truelly needed first.

[myk]

Myk hotchkis all the way u can buy it one piece at a time which I'm doing. 

The components are meant to compliment each other vs a mis match unless u want to really fine tune your car which is rare in our case unless your msracing who does it competively. I personally say shocks, leaf springs are minimal to enjoy the car better and the  t bars the  go from there.  If your sway bars are in good shape keep em they are fine for daily driver.

Like dino saids don't get caught up in upgrading for the sake of upgrading.  Money on these cars can be spent elsewhere that is truelly needed first.

Are you going to install all of the Hotchkis pieces, or are you going to mix and match? 

I was thinking about stages as well.  I was thinking Hotchkis sway's, UCA's, strut and steering rods first as my current upper and lower CA's need new bushings anyway.  Then, t-bars, leafs and shocks, since those components on my car are still OK.  To top it all off, a new steering box from one of the aftermarket vendors.  What do you think of my horrific plan?

[HPP]

I don't have the Hotchkis stuff but the old Addco's.  1-1/8" up front and the rear is either 3/4 or 7/8 but still in the box.  I'll bolt them on this spring and see what it does.  Thanks for the advice!  

Depending on how they mount and the layout of the rear bars, they may be close to the same resistance. For example, many of 7/8" bars i've seen mount in such a way and they have such long arms on them that they produce a very similar amount of force as a 3/4" bar. Without getting into all the math, you can always bolt them up and give them a shot. If the rear slides too easily with it on, then either take it off, or step up the size of the front bar to better match.

I want to someday auto-X the Charger along with my Firebird; yeah I know it sounds stupid, but I'd like to see these two machines take to a road course some day.  My sensible side tells me to invest in the Firebird; between the two it's worlds better in the handling and overall performance but...what can I say?  

With all of that being said, if you guys can recommend a list of parts that doesn't involve something as costly as the entire Hotchkis TVS or the entire list of QA-1 pieces but can still see us to that auto-X course I'm all ears...

That really depends. If its a first gen Firebird, then the Charger is actually a better platform to start with. If its a second gen 'Bird, then the Charger still isn't far off, but the bird will be better in size and weight potential.  However, if your going to pursue competitive driving, the rule book will dictate much more of what you can or can't do. For instance, the relocated pick up point on a Hotchkis upper control arm will bump you up a class in auto-x because it is a forbidden mod in stock classes.

You can build up a system that is decent for auto-x. It won't necessarily be cheaper than the entire Hotchkis kit if you use good parts, but again, it depends on how serious the effort is you want to pursue and what the rules say.

Auto-x is about managing body roll and weight transfer, so bigger t-bars, s-bars, and adjustable shocks are the primary recipe. However, if your talking road course, then it is probably just doing open track days which have pretty wide open rule sets. The requirements between aut-x and road course actually do differ an amount so what works great for one may not work the best for the other.

[garner7555]

OK I'm going to say something here that's going to sound completely laughable but if I can't tell you guys then who can I tell?  I want to someday auto-X the Charger along with my Firebird; yeah I know it sounds stupid, but I'd like to see these two machines take to a road course some day.  My sensible side tells me to invest in the Firebird; between the two it's worlds better in the handling and overall performance but...what can I say?  Owning a muscle car means logic and rationale don't typically apply.  I know I'll never reach the levels of MS89Racing or Mr. Angry, but after all of these years I realize that I love my Charger and I want to take the car as far as I can.

With all of that being said, if you guys can recommend a list of parts that doesn't involve something as costly as the entire Hotchkis TVS or the entire list of QA-1 pieces but can still see us to that auto-X course I'm all ears...

Awesome to hear MYK!  I'm all for driving it like you stole it!  I know there are a lot of trailer queen, all original, #s matching, high dollar cars that rarely get driven, and that's fine.  I personally just can't get into that.  I love these cars because of "muscle car" and everything that goes with it.  Its nice that we can improve the handling of these old cars.
Now for parts -
I used PST 1.03 T-bars                 (same diameter as some Hotchkis but way cheaper)
POL (performance On Line) tubular UCA             (Magnum Force brand when they came)
I know these are small things, but every dollar saved is a dollar toward more parts!!!
Also all the chassis stiffening that you can through at it.

[Dino]

Myk if you want to seriously race the Charger then you have to go all the way.  I suggest pm'ing those members that do this because there is a whole lot more involved than just buying some parts, and you may want to know the total package cost when all is said and done before you decide.  I think you may be surprised just how high the cost will have to be to be a contender.

The Bird is going to be the better choice in cost and performance, there is no contest between the two but you make one hell of a statement when you pick the Charger, no doubt.   

I don't have the Hotchkis stuff but the old Addco's.  1-1/8" up front and the rear is either 3/4 or 7/8 but still in the box.  I'll bolt them on this spring and see what it does.  Thanks for the advice!   

Depending on how they mount and the layout of the rear bars, they may be close to the same resistance. For example, many of 7/8" bars i've seen mount in such a way and they have such long arms on them that they produce a very similar amount of force as a 3/4" bar. Without getting into all the math, you can always bolt them up and give them a shot. If the rear slides too easily with it on, then either take it off, or step up the size of the front bar to better match.

Good point, never thought of it that way.  These are the typical rear bars that were the only ones available 20 years ago, that's how long it's been in the package.  I'm pretty sure you can tweak the feel of this bar depending on where you bolt them to the axle itself as it increases or decreases from center and the mounting points on the rails.  I may have to do some experimenting.  Once it warms up I can lay under the car again, I have the rear shocks out so it's the time to add this puppy!

[Cooter]

I did for the first time, upgrade the T-bars, sway bars, and added a rear sway bar to the Challenger.

I don't do the 'canyon carving' thing either, but I did notice a much more responsive feedback.
did make it a better 'driver' IMO.

What sized t-bars did you install?  I'm not sure what size to use, although I just may go with the Hotchkis set ($$$$$)...

Went with one up from stock 440 R/T stuff. Bars and sway bars alike.

[myk]

That really depends. If its a first gen Firebird, then the Charger is actually a better platform to start with. If its a second gen 'Bird, then the Charger still isn't far off, but the bird will be better in size and weight potential.  However, if your going to pursue competitive driving, the rule book will dictate much more of what you can or can't do. For instance, the relocated pick up point on a Hotchkis upper control arm will bump you up a class in auto-x because it is a forbidden mod in stock classes.

You can build up a system that is decent for auto-x. It won't necessarily be cheaper than the entire Hotchkis kit if you use good parts, but again, it depends on how serious the effort is you want to pursue and what the rules say.

Auto-x is about managing body roll and weight transfer, so bigger t-bars, s-bars, and adjustable shocks are the primary recipe. However, if your talking road course, then it is probably just doing open track days which have pretty wide open rule sets. The requirements between aut-x and road course actually do differ an amount so what works great for one may not work the best for the other.

4th Gen LS-1 Firebird.  Yes, it's an F body but IMO it's not a bad platform to start with, and the entire car responds to 'mods very well.  I appreciate the information on the auto-x'ing and the road course racing.  I'm not planning on pursuing this professionally or competitively like MSRacing89, just " recreationally."  For example, the local stadiums host auto-X'ing and road course racing type events for fun.  There's no media, no hype, no supermodels in sponsor labeled spandex outfits ready to give you a big kiss at the finish line, but there is the satisfaction of having run against other machines and their equally arrogant owners.

Awesome to hear MYK!  I'm all for driving it like you stole it!  I know there are a lot of trailer queen, all original, #s matching, high dollar cars that rarely get driven, and that's fine.  I personally just can't get into that.  I love these cars because of "muscle car" and everything that goes with it.  Its nice that we can improve the handling of these old cars.
Now for parts -
I used PST 1.03 T-bars                 (same diameter as some Hotchkis but way cheaper)
POL (performance On Line) tubular UCA             (Magnum Force brand when they came)
I know these are small things, but every dollar saved is a dollar toward more parts!!!
Also all the chassis stiffening that you can through at it.

Thanks for the heads up!  As I save my pennies I'll be looking at other options besides the QA-1 and Hotchkis deals.  It's good to know there are options; I just like the QA-1 and 'Kis packages because it feels less like mixing and matching parts but going with a matched system instead.

[myk]

Myk if you want to seriously race the Charger then you have to go all the way.  I suggest pm'ing those members that do this because there is a whole lot more involved than just buying some parts, and you may want to know the total package cost when all is said and done before you decide.  I think you may be surprised just how high the cost will have to be to be a contender.

The Bird is going to be the better choice in cost and performance, there is no contest between the two but you make one hell of a statement when you pick the Charger, no doubt.   

These cars are statements on wheels and I love it.  Again, I won't be doing this professionaly, just recreationally.  I know the costs will be rather high, but I'm trying not to think about it lol...