do you believe in sorcery/witchcraft ?

[XH29N0G]

......I think fear of what happens after life keeps most people in check...

Interesting point.  

I have been wrestling with many of the issues being discussed and really want there to be a god, the God.  Unfortunately I was not raised into religion as a kid, and am trapped by a philosophy of observation, reason, and testing.  I continually search for evidence and have not found sufficient evidence for, or for that matter, against what I seek.  

As a result of my view, and relevant to your point, I have thought about what is appropriate to do with my life should I only be a collection of chemical reactions.  A few days ago, I came to the conclusion that it should be something that helps humankind or living things continue.  I had reached this conclusion before, but not with the same clarity.  This time it came from a realization that I may never know the answer to what I seek.  

Why did my thinking headed this direction, rather than another? I think it is because I have family and kids, and I want them to have OK lives.  It was not driven by thinking there is a consequence for me after death if I don't.  For some that may be the case, but it need not be universally so.  

 

[Dino]

 
This life isn't very fair.  It's not much fun believing there are no consequences for anyone's good & bad actions beyond it.

I was talking to someone recently about fair and how we humans really invented that, and ironically...that's really not fair.    
There is no denying that what you say is 100% true.  It is no fun!  Of all that theology offers, the afterlife seems the most soothing.  If only I can get through this pos life, I'll be alright.

I wish it was true, I really do.

The good news is, when you die, it really won't matter anymore.  The more I realize my insignificance, the more I want to live and consequentially do...dammit I need to get the Charger fixed!   

[ws23rt]

Our ultimate demise is a hard pill to swallow.  But it is the way that we make way for those that follow.  The young don't see this the same way the old do and of course they don't. They are not ready yet.

Those that have lived a long and full life usually want to tell those that care for them that they are just fine with where they are and moving on is best.

Fearing death is something that I think religion was created for.  It was to put one at ease with the inevitable before they were experienced in life enough to know better.

[polywideblock]

so were does karma come into this 

[Nacho-RT74]

Now, onto more serious matter:  in a fight who would kick butt.  Gandalf or Merlin?

  I believe i will go with Merlin here...

why they would fight? both are suposelly on same side


.......

interesting how this become on a religion stuff, and interesting is coming nice ( yet )

aaand, even I'm Catholic, still dunno what believe abouth this specific topic, the original question... Have I ever loose my faith in? ANYTHING? dunno.

There are some testimonials about exorcism too, and that's on Catholic/Christianism side. Does it have something related with original question? dunno

[moparsr2fast]

Fearing death is something that I think religion was created for.  It was to put one at ease with the inevitable before they were experienced in life enough to know better.

  How experienced would one need to be before making  such a life altering decision....  going from  an eternal  being to just having a corporeal  existence 

[Chargerguy74]

I know I know, we are not supposed to talk about religion or politics so we don't fight...yet that is all we do as a society, is fight over those things.  I say to hell with that and let's talk dammit!   

But seriously, we tried converting the other side which led to more other sides so don't we started killing each other, but we're like bunnies and we multiply faster than we die, so that didn't work either.  What's wrong with talk?

Anyone can get emotional but grown people do have the capability to wake up, smell the roses and say we need to sit down and work this out.  That's not bound to happen in any type of government I've ever heard of, but we the foot folk sure can.

Take it or continue to annihilate yourself because you read different books.

Now, onto more serious matter:  in a fight who would kick butt.  Gandalf or Merlin?

  I believe i will go with Merlin here...

Yup, that's what I'm thinking.   

Yeah Dino, I kind of skipped through to find out, but I don't believe he came to Christ, or any theology (even though the book is touted as a winner of the Christianity today book award).

Dino, if you'll read it, I'll send you a copy. Just send me a PM with your info if you're game. Open offer.

That is very generous of you but I politely decline as I simply cannot see a time where I will be reading anything but college text books.  I have to many books collecting dust as it is.

Still, I thank you kindly for the offer.   

Not a problem 

[Tilar]

I don't know, but... witches fly

you?

I believe that there can be spirits or "ghosts" of you will... Hell we have a couple right here on the board.     Actually I believe that there are demons within this world that Satan controls, which can be within a living person. A flying person... I've never seen nor heard of one but that doesn't mean they don't exist even if it's in another plane, which brings up another point... I think that man would be foolish to think we are the only ones here and this includes other forms of life we might call aliens  UFO's. I also believe another plane of existence is very possible and actually probable and maybe right here on our own earth.

Our ultimate demise is a hard pill to swallow.  But it is the way that we make way for those that follow.  The young don't see this the same way the old do and of course they don't. They are not ready yet.

Those that have lived a long and full life usually want to tell those that care for them that they are just fine with where they are and moving on is best.

Fearing death is something that I think religion was created for.  It was to put one at ease with the inevitable before they were experienced in life enough to know better.

I do not fear death... Not at all. It's that transition from living to death that has me a little concerned. 

[ws23rt]

I don't know, but... witches fly

you?

I believe that there can be spirits or "ghosts" of you will... Hell we have a couple right here on the board.     Actually I believe that there are demons within this world that Satan controls, which can be within a living person. A flying person... I've never seen nor heard of one but that doesn't mean they don't exist even if it's in another plane, which brings up another point... I think that man would be foolish to think we are the only ones here and this includes other forms of life we might call aliens  UFO's. I also believe another plane of existence is very possible and actually probable and maybe right here on our own earth.

Our ultimate demise is a hard pill to swallow.  But it is the way that we make way for those that follow.  The young don't see this the same way the old do and of course they don't. They are not ready yet.

Those that have lived a long and full life usually want to tell those that care for them that they are just fine with where they are and moving on is best.

Fearing death is something that I think religion was created for.  It was to put one at ease with the inevitable before they were experienced in life enough to know better.

I do not fear death... Not at all. It's that transition from living to death that has me a little concerned. 

  The dying part can be a downer

[ACUDANUT]

No

[Dino]

If mods deleted the posts, I'm not going to start over and make them work twice.

[Dino]

I do not fear death... Not at all. It's that transition from living to death that has me a little concerned. 

That's a healthy way of looking at it, very funny as well.   



Apparently someone came in and cleaned this thread up a bit.  I apologize for my part in it, I'm allergic to some types of behavior so hence the outbreak.  I'll be good.   

[bull]

Bull I quote you here but please do not see this as a reply to you alone.  I am in no way trying to attack you.  I'm not going to turn this into a pissing contest, as I said you believe whatever you want.  However, all the things you mention can readily be explained, but it takes an effort on your part to want to learn.  And with you, again, I mean all of us.  I will also respect you by capitalizing God.

If cars and life forms were made the same way then intelligent design would the only explanation, but they have nothing in common.  Cars also do not evolve, not without more design.  Life does.  If someone does not agree with that statement, you're going to have a ball trying to refute the few million facts we have to support it.  It is all around us.  

If you knew biology and chemistry, then evolution becomes so in your face that it is really hard to ignore.  Life is not this flash bang, happened in 20 minutes, deal.  Our roots were laid down millions of years ago.  Emotions are chemical reactions, most life forms have it.  It's not that hard to induce an emotion in anyone with the right cocktail of chemicals.  

You are talking how and I'm talking why. Science doesn't answer the overall why in anything, only the how. I'm not just talking about the categorical aspect of cells and chemicals and synapses, etc. I'm talking about the spark of life, soul and the reason for existence. People believe there's more depth to our being because most of us feel as though there is a purpose for our life, and not just because our brains fire off a certain sequence of chemicals to make us feel that way. There is evidence of it that cannot be put into a box. Like the topic of this thread, how could science explain ghosts or scorcery? It can't other than to dismiss is as superstition or mass hysteria. Some sort of mind trick anyway. There are elements to life science can never explain because by definition, science is a practical and measured discipline and not everything can be "programmed, categorized or easily referenced."

[Nacho-RT74]

I just say that with all the science trying to proove all around STILL we can think half ( or more ) of ppl around the world still handles this topics like a thruth, or a way of live.

[John_Kunkel]

I have been wrestling with many of the issues being discussed and really want there to be a god, the God.  

Man has always felt that way, that's why man created God.

[Indygenerallee]

There was a case in Gary Indiana just this past summer where the children were believed to be demon possessed and there was witnesses watching the little boy walking up the wall backwards!?? How does Science explain that?? Three people are not gonna trip out at the same time and experience a "slight of the imagination" I believe it stated one of the witnesses was a police officer or the CPS case worker. But the scientific community relegates these happenings to "psychosis" even though there can be many witnesses to a event.

[John_Kunkel]

Just because science can't explain a phenomenon why does it have to be the work of God? Some things are simply unknowable.

[Nacho-RT74]

yeap, maybe, but still...

[Mike DC]

  
I agree it can get frustrating when the scientific community isn't willing to just admit they have no clue about something.  

But on the other hand I think that can be partly due to our interpretation of the response.   Did they really say "That's definitely psychosis, clear as day"?  More likely they just weren't commenting until pressed and then offered psychosis as basically the only scrap of idea they could give.  

You can't expect the sci community to shrug their shoulders and say, "I dunno, maybe the Devil did it.  The church's explanation is as good as ours."  Their belief system is different and many scientists don't like publicly giving up ground on the creation/evolution debate any more than the other side does.   
   

[Paul G]

I am not an overly religious man, but I do believe in the supreme being. I believe that that our existence was the result of our creator.

Let me ask a question. What is love? Explain love. It cant be seen, heard, tasted, or physically felt. Yet it is real. If a person has never been in love they may not believe love is possible, one may think those that are in love are foolish. Why does the woman or man you decide to spend your life with mean so much to you? Why does that one person mean so much over any other? A group of children playing, why is the one that belongs to you mean more to you than the others?

The belief in a supreme being is exactly the same as the feeling of love. Neither can be proven, there is no scientific evidence. But when you experience the warmth and comfort, the feeling inside you that tells you there is more than flesh and blood, when you know there is a God, life gets better. It just does. Cant explain the reason for that either.     

[Dino]

Bull I quote you here but please do not see this as a reply to you alone.  I am in no way trying to attack you.  I'm not going to turn this into a pissing contest, as I said you believe whatever you want.  However, all the things you mention can readily be explained, but it takes an effort on your part to want to learn.  And with you, again, I mean all of us.  I will also respect you by capitalizing God.

If cars and life forms were made the same way then intelligent design would the only explanation, but they have nothing in common.  Cars also do not evolve, not without more design.  Life does.  If someone does not agree with that statement, you're going to have a ball trying to refute the few million facts we have to support it.  It is all around us.  

If you knew biology and chemistry, then evolution becomes so in your face that it is really hard to ignore.  Life is not this flash bang, happened in 20 minutes, deal.  Our roots were laid down millions of years ago.  Emotions are chemical reactions, most life forms have it.  It's not that hard to induce an emotion in anyone with the right cocktail of chemicals.  

You are talking how and I'm talking why. Science doesn't answer the overall why in anything, only the how. I'm not just talking about the categorical aspect of cells and chemicals and synapses, etc. I'm talking about the spark of life, soul and the reason for existence. People believe there's more depth to our being because most of us feel as though there is a purpose for our life, and not just because our brains fire off a certain sequence of chemicals to make us feel that way. There is evidence of it that cannot be put into a box. Like the topic of this thread, how could science explain ghosts or scorcery? It can't other than to dismiss is as superstition or mass hysteria. Some sort of mind trick anyway. There are elements to life science can never explain because by definition, science is a practical and measured discipline and not everything can be "programmed, categorized or easily referenced."

Bull I agree 100% with you on this!  You are absolutely correct in all that you say here.  Chemicals do not explain everything, science attempts a lot but it is true, there is a butt load we just do not know about.  I know nothing about ghosts or spirits and although I need to be a skeptic, I can also not be biased and thus I am open to the subject.  I watched a few of those ghost shows once and I saw one that was really awesome but now I forget which one it is and none of the others seem all that well made.  I actually like the subject and hope one day to devote time to it.  

I do not feel that part of our world needs to have anything to do with religion though.  Ghosts and religion do not really go hand in hand.  They hae lack of support in common but there's a lot science hasn't figured out so that's not the fairest of comparisons.  I have seen stuff myself that I cannot explain in any way no matter how hard I try.  For the longest time I swore I saw a ufo but it has been a very long time and my memory is now tarnished by stuff my brain makes up to fill in the blanks.  I hate it when it does that and it's damn hard to catch.

My entire point here is that it is okay to not know, but it is not okay to make stuff up to explain what you cannot and force others to follow.  That is the part that pisses me off.  And I know that doesn't mean you are one of those, I hate generalizing as well.  I have plenty religious friends I love to death but you know as well as I do there's always that nut that just won't stop ramming some stuff down your throat.  

I will never know a whole lotta things I want to know, mostly because I'll be long gone by the time we're that advanced, but I'm not going to make something up to sooth me either.

I know a lot of people have a problem with that, but I have the right to live as a free thinking man and I'll say it again: you're not better than me and I'm no better than you.  Actually since we both have Chargers we're technically both better...  

[Chad L. Magee]

I agree it can get frustrating when the scientific community isn't willing to just admit they have no clue about something.  

But on the other hand I think that can be partly due to our interpretation of the response.   Did they really say "That's definitely psychosis, clear as day"?  More likely they just weren't commenting until pressed and then offered psychosis as basically the only scrap of idea they could give.  

You can't expect the sci community to shrug their shoulders and say, "I dunno, maybe the Devil did it.  The church's explanation is as good as ours."  Their belief system is different and many scientists don't like publicly giving up ground on the creation/evolution debate any more than the other side does.   

As a member of the scientific community, I can tell you that we do not have all of the answers to every question proposed to us.  Our overall goal is the search to find the truth about something in whatever area that we are working in.  We do not like to just say "I don't know" and drop it at that because that would be admiting the problem bested you.  How many times did you start working on your car and just give up and pay someone elso to do it?  It did not feel too good when it happened, did it?  Scientists are a very stubborn lot.....  

Part of our scientific method of problem solving is to hypothesize (educated guess) about what could be happening to cause this problem and how to solve it.  We then try to test our ideas to see if they work or not.  If not, then we go back and rehypothesize again until we have an answer that fits.  However, there exists things that we simply just cannot test for, so we are left with an untested hypothesis as a possible answer.  Could we be better at relating to the public on things?  Yes, we could do a better job at that on some things, but there has to be a basic level of scientific knowledge to work with for this to happen.  This is currently lacking in America today from the general public.  If you do not believe me, check where we land on the world's ranking of scientific learning, we are quite far down the list (we used to be on top not so long ago).  But, most people are too caught up in their own lives on a cell phone to care about anything else.  Ask them who won the Nobel prize in chemistry or physics this last year and you will likely just get a blank stare, until they start looking it up on their phone or computer.  The problem is really about using your brain and being less reliant on technology to think for us.  Until this changes, I can only see a downward slope of all of us collectively. ...

One must also realize that many of the brightest scientists are introverts who really cannot relate to an average person on many different levels.  (I went to grad school with many people that acted much like the characters on The Big Bang Theory TV show.  I can say that I knew someone even quarkier than the "Shelden" character.)  I have come to realize that if there is too large of an IQ difference between individuals, it tends to lead to misunderstandings on both sides.  They will both tend to think that they know what the other is saying, but alas they do not because they are trying to put their words into the other persons's mouth.  That leads to problems.  So, the net effect is a disjunction between the two groups. ...

[Nacho-RT74]

Let me ask a question. What is love? Explain love. It cant be seen, heard, tasted, or physically felt. Yet it is real. If a person has never been in love they may not believe love is possible, one may think those that are in love are foolish. Why does the woman or man you decide to spend your life with mean so much to you? Why does that one person mean so much over any other? A group of children playing, why is the one that belongs to you mean more to you than the others?

The belief in a supreme being is exactly the same as the feeling of love. Neither can be proven, there is no scientific evidence. But when you experience the warmth and comfort, the feeling inside you that tells you there is more than flesh and blood, when you know there is a God, life gets better. It just does. Cant explain the reason for that either.     

you know? I was to post about this yesterday!!! but didn't because by LOVES FAULT I'm depressed right now ( REALLY DEPRESSED ), depressed enough to not make long post or even think good... and this is what actually took me to creat this topic. Something weird is happening around me related to love.

[Dino]

There are many facets of those feelings we can explain, but I for one care much more about what it does to us.  Love is good, and I don't care if anyone ever explains it as long as I have it!

Chad you're right, there's a big gap between the groups and it's a shame. 

[twodko]

A closed mind is a wasted mind.