do you believe in sorcery/witchcraft ?

[ACUDANUT]

Good grief. ? look at his virtue's and lack of moral character. That is like releasing a Condemned insane inmate into the free world.  

[polywideblock]

so does this super duper moral compass of yours work on the person holding it
             

                           

[ws23rt]

Is this not a public forum?  And are these comments not of a personal nature?

[ws23rt]

the troll strikes again

I for one appreciate your non escalating restraint.

[polywideblock]

    spur of the moment typing   all fixed

[bull]

This is all moot anyway. We're all going to go through life not fully understanding 99% of what goes on and why. The smartest among us might know 1% more of what there is to know than the dumbest, bottom-feeding mouth-breather on the planet so arguing about what things we really know next to nothing about is pretty silly.

Regarding John Kunkel's IQ crack, IQ doesn't really amount to much IMO since it's just a man-made test to test men. My IQ tested out at one point higher than Stephen Hawking's alleged IQ so now John is laughing at me because I believe in the Bible. I don't care, and I don't think IQ matters much in the grand scheme and I certainly don't think I'm dumber because of my faith. Some people see faith in God as a crutch but many of those naysayers can't go 18 hours without drinking or smoking or doing drugs. Even if certain habits are not additive everyone I know has something they enjoy and/or believe in or rely on to give them comfort in life.

[moparsr2fast]

  people like me find it laughable that anybody with a 3-digit IQ could believe the fairy tale known as the Holy Bible.

  And yet, it happens all the time....

[Chad L. Magee]

While there is thinking about things moving about by magic, there is a question that I wonder if you guys can answer.  It has been bugging me lately.

My question has to do with ions that have a charge field in water.  Water has a structure
and sets up an electrostatic field.  If we take an ion like sulfite (it is a pointy space ship looking like thing.), does it move through the water because of the interactions between its charge field and the field that is set up by the constantly changing structure of water?  How wrong am I envisioning the ions as (sort of) a mini space crafts navigating through the water?

Sorry for replying late, I have been preoccupied with grading an exam I gave this week....

Yes, you could look at it that way.  I look at the electrostatic charges a bit different though:  Sulfite ions, SO3 with a 2- overall charge, has a trigonal pyramidal molecular shape (think pyramid with the S on top and O on bottom corners).  The apex of the pyramid is actually a lone pair of electrons (non-bonding pair).  Certain ions can be dissolved in water because water has polar bonds (ie. unequal sharing of electron density between O and H, with O getting the majority at any one time) which allow for charge attraction (hydrogen bonding) with ions.  Hydrogen on water is attracted to negative ions, so SO3 2- would likely have two hydrogen bonds at any time.  Because of this, the molecule would appear larger, like the spaceship, than it would if it was in something that did not hydrogen bond.  Oxygen atoms are attracted to positive charged species.  Water molecules are constantly moving around due to thermal energy, much like a crowded bar full of people, with many bumping into each other at any time.  When ions are put into the mix, they bump around just the same with the attached waters....  

For the layman:

If water was non-polar, we would soon die because we could not move ions around in our body.  We have to have a certain percentage of salt dissolved up in our blood plasma to live...

[Chad L. Magee]

This is all moot anyway. We're all going to go through life not fully understanding 99% of what goes on and why. The smartest among us might know 1% more of what there is to know than the dumbest, bottom-feeding mouth-breather on the planet so arguing about what things we really know next to nothing about is pretty silly.

Regarding John Kunkel's IQ crack, IQ doesn't really amount to much IMO since it's just a man-made test to test men. My IQ tested out at one point higher than Stephen Hawking's alleged IQ so now John is laughing at me because I believe in the Bible. I don't care, and I don't think IQ matters much in the grand scheme and I certainly don't think I'm dumber because of my faith. Some people see faith in God as a crutch but many of those naysayers can't go 18 hours without drinking or smoking or doing drugs. Even if certain habits are not additive everyone I know has something they enjoy and/or believe in or rely on to give them comfort in life.

IQ is just a measure of what you may be capable of, not nessicarly what you are capable of over your lifetime.  Having a high IQ is like having a performance engine to work with.  But, to make it run right, it must be put to task with the proper tools.  If you decide to be lazy and never use it, then it is like having that engine in a 20 ton tank.  It will move it but barely and have problems.  If you want to make it truely perform, you have to be able to use it properly within it's function.  Albert Einstein did not have the highest IQ known (it was high though), but he could use much more of his brain than an average person can.  That is like putting the performance engine in a ultralight weight frame vehicle, where it can perform.  One thing I have learned is that you should never underestimate the capabilites of a human brain.  I have known people who fall in both classes above.  I also know people with lower IQs that work really hard to study with what they have and can do much more than what people expected of them because of it.  Human drive has to be figured into the discussion on human intellegence to get the real picture of what is going on inside someone's head.  I don't think we can fairly judge how intellegent someone is simply by what they believe/don't believe in, because we are not in their shoes to see what they see.  BTW My crutch is a combination of iced tea, cartoons and quantum mechanics.  Figure that one out, I still am trying to.  ...

Yes, I am weird.  Always have been....

[XH29N0G]

Three things.....

Chad,  Thanks for the response.  I was wondering about the 'existence' of a directional force on large ions with polarity when surrounded by water molecules that results from an inherent instability in the water structure and that might show up when optimizing with electronic structure methods.  I was not referring to a thermal or turbulent motion component that may completely overwhelm such a force operating in many natural systems.  FYI - I'm not trained as a chemist, but have a curiosity about how the physical world works.

Bull, your post made me smile (in a positive way), but not because of arguments about the existence (or not) of God.  I smiled because it brought back a memory from a few years ago when I came home to find my wife with a huge grin on her face that implied she had something to say.  When I asked her what had happened, she explained that a friend of hers had been arguing the merits of IQ testing and this had been weighing on her, so she ultimately decided to take one.  I asked her the question on my mind "how did it go", hoping she would tell me more.  She wouldn't tell me....But she said it was higher than her friends (implying that I shouldn't try to take one), and she was not going to take another one.  I have always suspected that she (and the discontinuation of leaded gas) has something to do with my kids always being able to win most of their arguments with me - that is unless I say I'm the dad so what I say goes....

Now to wade back in.  Have we pondered the possibility that someone who is very smart may sometime in the future identify and recognize compelling and testable evidence for God?
I do not think this is a knowable either - because it is in the future... I would just like to take from this discussion that many people who believe do so for reasons they know (some may be compelling for them) but may not be knowable by others.  Others believe that god does not exist for their own reasons (the evidence they consider weighs against it).  Still others can be stuck between, looking for evidence for or against that is uniquely argues for or against.  I think a case was made that humanity (or inhumanity) can be reconciled with any of these perspectives. 

Can we get back to witches...

[Nacho-RT74]

 
Does that stupid tree in the woods make a sound when it falls? 

Why Yes, yes it does. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IhLJa7lYOY

actually ( and being serious, aside the video ) if nobody heard it, no... the sound is our brain response to the atmospheric pressure disturb waves. No Brain to translate the atmospheric pressure variation, no sound... just waves

[Steve P.]

It is very sad that some on this site cannot find a way to just get along or change the channel. I for one am tired of this and tired of having to oles or lock threads.

This is first and foremost a car site. It's great that many here have found long time friendships and very many have met in person from here. That said, my opinion is that we should lose the off topic area alltogether since we cannot seem to have a conversation without the rules being broken so often or battles between some members popping up.

Getting in before the lock is not a feather in anyones cap. Having to read and reread is a pain and having to lock threads should NEVER have to happen. It is a waste of all of our time and a knife in our backs.

Some think this is their own personal place to go and attack others. Some act as though this is a PAY SITE where you can say anything you want to anyone until the moderators come along and DO THEIR JOB!! Well let me tell you. It IS a job. One that has zero pay and little benefit anymore when compared to the work. Some feel it's their RIGHT to THEIR opinion and cannot let others opinions go. Again it becomes the moderators JOB to clean up and play referee for those that cannot seem to figure out that we have rules and other people have the same opportunity here as they do.

There are many sites everyone can go to for religion, politics, grocery coupons, sports and any number of other topics. We have set rules to curb the problem issue. If you cannot hold to the rules of this site, PLEASE FIND ANOTHER!!! All of us mods have other things going on in our lives just as you do. Our owner, Troy pays for every bit of this site out of pocket. His full time job pays for all of us to come here and talk about our projects and find answers to our car problems and buy or sell car, parts and just about anything you can think of. The rest of the mods are not PAID for the job they do. Playing referee is NOT FUN for us. It is a complete waste of our time and can be extremely aggravating. To the point of us not coming on as we normally would. Who the hell turns on their TV set to the STATIC CHANNEL??? NOT ME!!!!!

People begged Troy to repair the old site. Then when it went under even more begged Troy to start a new one. Now way too many are forgetting that this would not be here if it were not for TROY.. Do ANY of you think that Troy wants these idiotic fights??

I don't have time or interest in most off topic threads. That is not why I come on here. But I spend most of my valuable time in this area because of all the problems that we DO NOT WANT OR NEED!!!! The rest of the mods are stuck in this as well. That is pretty damned unfair to us as well.. I wish I had the power to lock the entire OFF TOPIC area. I am not alone in that thought either. I am simply the guy who is pissed off enough to tell all of you.

Now can we PLEASE get back to enjoying what this site is meant to be without this bickering and bitching?