date correct engine

[gunner60927]

I am looking for your thoughts if a date correct 440 engine adds substantially more value to a restoration of a 69 charger than a 1974 440 engine. If so, what would be a fair estimate of increase value.

[myk]

Did the car come with a 440 to begin with?

[XH29N0G]

   Don't think I would care, but still curious about the answer.   

[gunner60927]

Yes, it came with 440 magnum

[Homerr]

If you're restoring it to original condition, then yes I'd say it adds value.  Depends on the whole package.  If you're selling a junker with a date correct engine then it might be worth a couple hundred dollars in the whole deal. 

If you're selling a restored car done correct, or very near, and the engine is date correct, there is maybe some history why the original engine isn't there - well then I'm probably more likely to offer nearer your asking price instead of dickering more.  Basically if it there because you, as the owner, care about the car then that is worth some peace of mind and I could part with a little more cash.  How much?  I don't know really, it really is adding validity to your restoration and, therefor, indirect monetary value.

[69CoronetRT]

If you're restoring it to original condition, then yes I'd say it adds value.  Depends on the whole package.  If you're selling a junker with a date correct engine then it might be worth a couple hundred dollars in the whole deal.  

I agree. It's all context.

If you want to swap in a 'date correct' 440 in place of a 383. It doesn't mean a lot. Probably the value of a rebuilt 440 over a rebuilt 383.

If you do the above and throw on a bunch of aftermarket parts. I don't care at all. It adds no value to me.

If you want to find a date correct 440 for a true 'restoration' on a car (not a 'clone' 'tribute' or whatever word is trick this week) AND the engine compartment is stock to go with the rest of a 'stock' car, then I care. Not because it is a date correct block but it tells me you went to great pains to find a date correct block to be as accurate as you could be given the circumstances. It tells me you probably did a lot of other things to the best of your ability and I won't find any surprises in the car. In and of itself, the date correct block is still not original but it speaks to the integrity and character of the person that put it together. THAT adds value.

[1974dodgecharger]

What's considered date correct?

[DixieRestoParts]

If you're restoring it to original condition, then yes I'd say it adds value.  Depends on the whole package.  If you're selling a junker with a date correct engine then it might be worth a couple hundred dollars in the whole deal.  

I agree. It's all context.

If you want to swap in a 'date correct' 440 in place of a 383. It doesn't mean a lot. Probably the value of a rebuilt 440 over a rebuilt 383.

If you do the above and throw on a bunch of aftermarket parts. I don't care at all. It adds no value to me.

If you want to find a date correct 440 for a true 'restoration' on a car (not a 'clone' 'tribute' or whatever word is trick this week) AND the engine compartment is stock to go with the rest of a 'stock' car, then I care. Not because it is a date correct block but it tells me you went to great pains to find a date correct block to be as accurate as you could be given the circumstances. It tells me you probably did a lot of other things to the best of your ability and I won't find any surprises in the car. In and of itself, the date correct block is still not original but it speaks to the integrity and character of the person that put it together. THAT adds value.

I agree. Cars are only original once. However, if you're truly restoring a car, then a date coded correct engine helps. I believe the dates acceptable would be around 2 weeks to 3 months prior to the build date of the car. I could be wrong there, but I think that's the dates they originally ranged from. Anyway, If you have a 69 440 car and you throw a 74 440 in it, it's slightly better than a 383, but we all know the 74 engine was a lower HP engine in stock trim. Now, if you have a 69 440 and you throw a 68 440 in, it's a good engine, but since it's not the correct date code, it's probably gonna be the second tier below a date coded correct engine. In either the 68 or 74 case, the prospective buyer will need to determine the value of those engines in regards to the whole restoration for himself. That is a very subjective decision. If the car is not restored and you're just including with the sale, the same applies. What is the prospective buyer going to build? Does he care? If he just wants a hotrod, he probably won't care. It's really only going to matter to the guys that want to restore one as close to possible as they can (or can afford to).

From my perspective and I think most of the guys I know that chase restored cars, a date coded correct engine would probably add a thousand or two to the total price they would pay. That is all things being equal. Nice restored car, nice date coded engine, etc. But, that is no guarantee either as this market is fickle.

[Brock Lee]

I believe it adds value, but not the kind you may be thinking. The car is still non-original. It takes the same hit in value. However, having a period correct engine may sway a little more interest from potential buyers. That means you may be able to get into the higher values of non-originals and have an easier time selling it.

[gunner60927]

Thank you all for your comments.  I now have a better understanding of my question. I am new to this and need to know how you guys view topics such as this.  Thanks again. If anyone has more to comment, I would welcome.

[John_Kunkel]

You can't "restore" a car without its original engine/trans.

[tan top]

 no offence meant to anyone  

think the term date code engine  , was dreamt up by dealers & sellers , when they realised  cars with matching numbers were worth more , so its just a marketing thing date coded correct  blar blar etc , it either has the original motor  or not ,


having said all that ,  assembling a motor with all the correct casting dates & an assembly date that's a few weeks / month before your SPD is a good thing to have  , especially if it come from another charger  R/T or ...  as good as it can get etc  but don't think  a car should a lot more , though having a cut out 78 440 straight from a motor home in your 69 R/T  is a different story      if both engines are built to the same spec , in two  identically restored or  rebuilt  or what ever the correct name is !!charger R/Ts  the one with  date code motor should be a little bit more  , although if both motors are the same spec , neither of them are the original motor  
think i'm going round & round in circles !! up to the buyer  

[charge69]

It is my understanding that is was sometime in the 1968 model year that Chrysler started stamping a VIN on the motor. Any Charger made earlier than that, such as early 1968, 1967 and 1966 model year Chargers would only have a "date-code-correct" motor and drivetrain. No VIN stamped on the motor!

I am curious, how would you prove that the motor was the original motor installed by Chrysler in a 1966 model?  Date-code on the motor would certainly be important in this case.

[myk]

It is my understanding that is was sometime in the 1968 model year that Chrysler started stamping a VIN on the motor. Any Charger made earlier than that, such as early 1968, 1967 and 1966 model year Chargers would only have a "date-code-correct" motor and drivetrain. No VIN stamped on the motor!

I am curious, how would you prove that the motor was the original motor installed by Chrysler in a 1966 model?  Date-code on the motor would certainly be important in this case.

Paperwork from the dealer/service center, I'm sure.  But for the most part the "date correct" terminology is a seller's tool, IMO...

[NHCharger]

As of Jan. 1,1968 all engines needed to have part of the vin # stamped on them. So a date correct engine after 1/1/68 still is not #'s matching. So I don't see how a non #s date correct block could add that much value 

[bill440rt]

If you're restoring it to original condition, then yes I'd say it adds value.  Depends on the whole package.  If you're selling a junker with a date correct engine then it might be worth a couple hundred dollars in the whole deal.  

I agree. It's all context.

If you want to swap in a 'date correct' 440 in place of a 383. It doesn't mean a lot. Probably the value of a rebuilt 440 over a rebuilt 383.

If you do the above and throw on a bunch of aftermarket parts. I don't care at all. It adds no value to me.

If you want to find a date correct 440 for a true 'restoration' on a car (not a 'clone' 'tribute' or whatever word is trick this week) AND the engine compartment is stock to go with the rest of a 'stock' car, then I care. Not because it is a date correct block but it tells me you went to great pains to find a date correct block to be as accurate as you could be given the circumstances. It tells me you probably did a lot of other things to the best of your ability and I won't find any surprises in the car. In and of itself, the date correct block is still not original but it speaks to the integrity and character of the person that put it together. THAT adds value.

Well said. I agree with this 100%. 
It's all perception. Some people don't give a rats a$$ either way. Others do. If I were in the market to buy a stock restored car and the engine was dated correctly, that would have some intrinsic value to me vs a mid-70's boat anchor block from a motorhome. I'm talking on a stock restored car.

[bull]

"Substantially" increase the value? No, but there's something to be said for putting a correctly dated engine in them. I would pay more for a correct date than not, especially an engine from the mid-70s, but I probably wouldn't pay thousands more.

[Dreamcar]

Like some have said, for me, it's either the original block or its not.

As a buyer, a date-correct block but non-original block would only be worth a little more, but not much.

As the owner of the car, although it may not make financial sense (this hobby often doesn't), I would likely pay a little to find a date correct block if the car needs an engine build AND if the car was born an RT.

If installing a 440 in a non-RT (such is my case), I wouln't care less about the date.

[John_Kunkel]

Obviously, a matching number engine/trans is going to have more effect on the value of a Hemi Daytona than a 383 Charger.

[500Jon]

H Folks,

I suspect that cars/folks without their original engine/trans say they don't care, but in my mind a rare Mopar with all its original parts is more desirable, irrespective of values.
I had a 68 R/T from Vegas that was 99% original and totally rustfree.
It was shipped to England by a US-serviceman serving on a Base here.
I was the second owner and I think its the most original Charger outside of the US.
But during resto some minor parts will be changed as a matter of course.

As to values its gotta be worth double a throw together Bitsa-resto!

Best wishes 500Jon

[1974dodgecharger]

I have a date correct on my 68 that came off the line nov 7  of 67.

[xs29bb1]

I have a date correct on my 68 that came off the line nov 7  of 67.

In that case date correct is the best you're going to get, right?  I mean there is no VIN on a '67 engine, so....

[Ghoste]

Correct.

[Challenger340]

I am sure "date correct" adds something to some people... but again, as already mentioned, no offense to anyone but I also believe the term "date correct" Engine was dreamed up as some kind of marketing tool by dealers, etc., in an attempt to narrow the gap in value between the ORIGINAL Engine, and just ANY Engine installed ?
Personally, I don't care WHAT Engine is in a car, originally or otherwise, as long as the Engine PERFORMS like it should !

I've seen supposedly "Concourse" #1 Restoration Cars.... absolutely "perfect" and truly considered "reference" Cars, with of course their "Numbers matching" original Engines.... that have been rebuilt
and,
literally... these things were the biggest terds known to mankind when floored.... give a musclecar a BAD name... EMBARRASSING !!
just sayin
Absolutely amazing.... that people would spend many tens of thousands of Dollars "restoring" a car... yet when it comes to "restoring" it's original Performance... either don't know.. or don't care.... or didn't spend the time..... to Insure the performance was retained ??
Amazing also.... is they have NO IDEA how slow their cars are... some really believe that's the way it should be ?  

[xs29bb1]

What's considered date correct?

Did anyone speak to this?  Perhaps I missed it.  You've got the assembly date of the engine that needs to precede the car's build date by I think between an week and a month?  Then you've got the block casting date that needs to precede the engine build date by??  Is it a range from a couple weeks to say 3+ months?  Don't you also have a date stamped on the intake manifold?  (assuming you're going w/ an "original" one)  What's the range on that relative to the casting date and/or engine build date?  Are there any other significant dates on the engine, and if so how are they supposed to line up relative to the others?

I mean if you've got an engine w/ a correct assembly date, but your block was cast 3 months after the car was built, it's not "date correct".  Has anyone commented on how these dates are supposed to line up?  I'd figure you would need ALL of these dates to line up properly before you can even call an engine "date correct", no?