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date correct engine

Started by gunner60927, February 05, 2014, 07:45:46 PM

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gunner60927

I am looking for your thoughts if a date correct 440 engine adds substantially more value to a restoration of a 69 charger than a 1974 440 engine. If so, what would be a fair estimate of increase value.

myk

Did the car come with a 440 to begin with?

XH29N0G

 :popcrn:  Don't think I would care, but still curious about the answer.   :popcrn:
Who in their right mind would say

"The science should not stand in the way of this."? 

Science is just observation and hypothesis.  Policy stands in the way.........

Or maybe it protects us. 

I suppose it depends on the specific case.....

gunner60927


Homerr

If you're restoring it to original condition, then yes I'd say it adds value.  Depends on the whole package.  If you're selling a junker with a date correct engine then it might be worth a couple hundred dollars in the whole deal. 

If you're selling a restored car done correct, or very near, and the engine is date correct, there is maybe some history why the original engine isn't there - well then I'm probably more likely to offer nearer your asking price instead of dickering more.  Basically if it there because you, as the owner, care about the car then that is worth some peace of mind and I could part with a little more cash.  How much?  I don't know really, it really is adding validity to your restoration and, therefor, indirect monetary value.

69CoronetRT

Quote from: Homerr on February 05, 2014, 09:44:59 PM
If you're restoring it to original condition, then yes I'd say it adds value.  Depends on the whole package.  If you're selling a junker with a date correct engine then it might be worth a couple hundred dollars in the whole deal.  

I agree. It's all context.

If you want to swap in a 'date correct' 440 in place of a 383. It doesn't mean a lot. Probably the value of a rebuilt 440 over a rebuilt 383.

If you do the above and throw on a bunch of aftermarket parts. I don't care at all. It adds no value to me.

If you want to find a date correct 440 for a true 'restoration' on a car (not a 'clone' 'tribute' or whatever word is trick this week) AND the engine compartment is stock to go with the rest of a 'stock' car, then I care. Not because it is a date correct block but it tells me you went to great pains to find a date correct block to be as accurate as you could be given the circumstances. It tells me you probably did a lot of other things to the best of your ability and I won't find any surprises in the car. In and of itself, the date correct block is still not original but it speaks to the integrity and character of the person that put it together. THAT adds value.
Seeking information on '69 St. Louis plant VINs, SPDs and VONs. Buld sheets and tag pictures appreciated. Over 3,000 on file thanks to people like you.

1974dodgecharger

What's considered date correct?

DixieRestoParts

Quote from: 69CoronetRT on February 05, 2014, 10:43:18 PM
Quote from: Homerr on February 05, 2014, 09:44:59 PM
If you're restoring it to original condition, then yes I'd say it adds value.  Depends on the whole package.  If you're selling a junker with a date correct engine then it might be worth a couple hundred dollars in the whole deal.  

I agree. It's all context.

If you want to swap in a 'date correct' 440 in place of a 383. It doesn't mean a lot. Probably the value of a rebuilt 440 over a rebuilt 383.

If you do the above and throw on a bunch of aftermarket parts. I don't care at all. It adds no value to me.

If you want to find a date correct 440 for a true 'restoration' on a car (not a 'clone' 'tribute' or whatever word is trick this week) AND the engine compartment is stock to go with the rest of a 'stock' car, then I care. Not because it is a date correct block but it tells me you went to great pains to find a date correct block to be as accurate as you could be given the circumstances. It tells me you probably did a lot of other things to the best of your ability and I won't find any surprises in the car. In and of itself, the date correct block is still not original but it speaks to the integrity and character of the person that put it together. THAT adds value.

I agree. Cars are only original once. However, if you're truly restoring a car, then a date coded correct engine helps. I believe the dates acceptable would be around 2 weeks to 3 months prior to the build date of the car. I could be wrong there, but I think that's the dates they originally ranged from. Anyway, If you have a 69 440 car and you throw a 74 440 in it, it's slightly better than a 383, but we all know the 74 engine was a lower HP engine in stock trim. Now, if you have a 69 440 and you throw a 68 440 in, it's a good engine, but since it's not the correct date code, it's probably gonna be the second tier below a date coded correct engine. In either the 68 or 74 case, the prospective buyer will need to determine the value of those engines in regards to the whole restoration for himself. That is a very subjective decision. If the car is not restored and you're just including with the sale, the same applies. What is the prospective buyer going to build? Does he care? If he just wants a hotrod, he probably won't care. It's really only going to matter to the guys that want to restore one as close to possible as they can (or can afford to).

From my perspective and I think most of the guys I know that chase restored cars, a date coded correct engine would probably add a thousand or two to the total price they would pay. That is all things being equal. Nice restored car, nice date coded engine, etc. But, that is no guarantee either as this market is fickle.
Dixie Restoration Parts
Ball Ground, Georgia
Phone: (770) 975-9898
Phone Hours: M-F 10am-6pm EST
mail@dixierestorationparts.com
Veteran owned small business

The Best Parts at a Fair Price

Brock Lee

I believe it adds value, but not the kind you may be thinking. The car is still non-original. It takes the same hit in value. However, having a period correct engine may sway a little more interest from potential buyers. That means you may be able to get into the higher values of non-originals and have an easier time selling it.

gunner60927

Thank you all for your comments.  I now have a better understanding of my question. I am new to this and need to know how you guys view topics such as this.  Thanks again. If anyone has more to comment, I would welcome.

John_Kunkel


You can't "restore" a car without its original engine/trans.
Pardon me but my karma just ran over your dogma.

tan top

 no offence meant to anyone   :cheers: :cheers:

think the term date code engine  , was dreamt up by dealers & sellers , when they realised  cars with matching numbers were worth more , so its just a marketing thing date coded correct  blar blar etc , it either has the original motor  or not ,


having said all that ,  assembling a motor with all the correct casting dates & an assembly date that's a few weeks / month before your SPD is a good thing to have  , especially if it come from another charger  R/T or ...  as good as it can get etc  but don't think  a car should a lot more , though having a cut out 78 440 straight from a motor home in your 69 R/T  is a different story  :yesnod:    if both engines are built to the same spec , in two  identically restored or  rebuilt  or what ever the correct name is !!charger R/Ts  the one with  date code motor should be a little bit more  , although if both motors are the same spec , neither of them are the original motor  :shruggy:
think i'm going round & round in circles !! up to the buyer  :yesnod:
Feel free to post any relevant picture you think we all might like to see in the threads below!

Charger Stuff 
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,86777.0.html
Chargers in the background where you least expect them 
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,97261.0.html
C500 & Daytonas & Superbirds
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,95432.0.html
Interesting pictures & Stuff 
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,109484.925.html
Old Dodge dealer photos wanted
 http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,120850.0.html

charge69

It is my understanding that is was sometime in the 1968 model year that Chrysler started stamping a VIN on the motor. Any Charger made earlier than that, such as early 1968, 1967 and 1966 model year Chargers would only have a "date-code-correct" motor and drivetrain. No VIN stamped on the motor!

I am curious, how would you prove that the motor was the original motor installed by Chrysler in a 1966 model?  Date-code on the motor would certainly be important in this case.

myk

Quote from: charge69 on February 06, 2014, 07:25:23 PM
It is my understanding that is was sometime in the 1968 model year that Chrysler started stamping a VIN on the motor. Any Charger made earlier than that, such as early 1968, 1967 and 1966 model year Chargers would only have a "date-code-correct" motor and drivetrain. No VIN stamped on the motor!

I am curious, how would you prove that the motor was the original motor installed by Chrysler in a 1966 model?  Date-code on the motor would certainly be important in this case.

Paperwork from the dealer/service center, I'm sure.  But for the most part the "date correct" terminology is a seller's tool, IMO...

NHCharger

As of Jan. 1,1968 all engines needed to have part of the vin # stamped on them. So a date correct engine after 1/1/68 still is not #'s matching. So I don't see how a non #s date correct block could add that much value  :shruggy:
72 Charger- Base Model
68 Charger-R/T Clone
69 Charger Daytona clone
79 Lil Red Express - future money pit
88 Ramcharger 4x4- current money pit
55 Dodge Royal 2 door - wife's money pit
2014 RAM 2500HD Diesel

bill440rt

Quote from: 69CoronetRT on February 05, 2014, 10:43:18 PM
Quote from: Homerr on February 05, 2014, 09:44:59 PM
If you're restoring it to original condition, then yes I'd say it adds value.  Depends on the whole package.  If you're selling a junker with a date correct engine then it might be worth a couple hundred dollars in the whole deal.  

I agree. It's all context.

If you want to swap in a 'date correct' 440 in place of a 383. It doesn't mean a lot. Probably the value of a rebuilt 440 over a rebuilt 383.

If you do the above and throw on a bunch of aftermarket parts. I don't care at all. It adds no value to me.

If you want to find a date correct 440 for a true 'restoration' on a car (not a 'clone' 'tribute' or whatever word is trick this week) AND the engine compartment is stock to go with the rest of a 'stock' car, then I care. Not because it is a date correct block but it tells me you went to great pains to find a date correct block to be as accurate as you could be given the circumstances. It tells me you probably did a lot of other things to the best of your ability and I won't find any surprises in the car. In and of itself, the date correct block is still not original but it speaks to the integrity and character of the person that put it together. THAT adds value.


Well said. I agree with this 100%.  :yesnod:
It's all perception. Some people don't give a rats a$$ either way. Others do. If I were in the market to buy a stock restored car and the engine was dated correctly, that would have some intrinsic value to me vs a mid-70's boat anchor block from a motorhome. I'm talking on a stock restored car.
"Strive for perfection in everything. Take the best that exists and make it better. If it doesn't exist, create it. Accept nothing nearly right or good enough." Sir Henry Rolls Royce

bull

"Substantially" increase the value? No, but there's something to be said for putting a correctly dated engine in them. I would pay more for a correct date than not, especially an engine from the mid-70s, but I probably wouldn't pay thousands more.

Dreamcar

Like some have said, for me, it's either the original block or its not.

As a buyer, a date-correct block but non-original block would only be worth a little more, but not much.

As the owner of the car, although it may not make financial sense (this hobby often doesn't), I would likely pay a little to find a date correct block if the car needs an engine build AND if the car was born an RT.

If installing a 440 in a non-RT (such is my case), I wouln't care less about the date.
"And another thing, when I gun the motor, I want people to think the world is coming to an end." - Homer Simpson

1969 Charger, 383, Q5/V1W, A35, H51, N88,  numbers match (under restoration)

John_Kunkel


Obviously, a matching number engine/trans is going to have more effect on the value of a Hemi Daytona than a 383 Charger.
Pardon me but my karma just ran over your dogma.

500Jon

H Folks,

I suspect that cars/folks without their original engine/trans say they don't care, but in my mind a rare Mopar with all its original parts is more desirable, irrespective of values.
I had a 68 R/T from Vegas that was 99% original and totally rustfree.
It was shipped to England by a US-serviceman serving on a Base here.
I was the second owner and I think its the most original Charger outside of the US.
But during resto some minor parts will be changed as a matter of course.

As to values its gotta be worth double a throw together Bitsa-resto! :shruggy:

Best wishes 500Jon
IF A JOB's WORTH DOING, ITS WORTH DOING WELL, RIP DAD.
4-SPEED, 1969 Charger-500 is the most Coolio car in the World!

1974dodgecharger

I have a date correct on my 68 that came off the line nov 7  of 67.

xs29bb1

Quote from: 1974dodgecharger on February 08, 2014, 03:42:37 PM
I have a date correct on my 68 that came off the line nov 7  of 67.

In that case date correct is the best you're going to get, right?  I mean there is no VIN on a '67 engine, so....

Ghoste


Challenger340

I am sure "date correct" adds something to some people... but again, as already mentioned, no offense to anyone but I also believe the term "date correct" Engine was dreamed up as some kind of marketing tool by dealers, etc., in an attempt to narrow the gap in value between the ORIGINAL Engine, and just ANY Engine installed ?
Personally, I don't care WHAT Engine is in a car, originally or otherwise, as long as the Engine PERFORMS like it should !

I've seen supposedly "Concourse" #1 Restoration Cars.... absolutely "perfect" and truly considered "reference" Cars, with of course their "Numbers matching" original Engines.... that have been rebuilt
and,
literally... these things were the biggest terds known to mankind when floored.... give a musclecar a BAD name... EMBARRASSING !!
just sayin
Absolutely amazing.... that people would spend many tens of thousands of Dollars "restoring" a car... yet when it comes to "restoring" it's original Performance... either don't know.. or don't care.... or didn't spend the time..... to Insure the performance was retained ??
Amazing also.... is they have NO IDEA how slow their cars are... some really believe that's the way it should be ?  
Only wimps wear Bowties !

xs29bb1

Quote from: 1974dodgecharger on February 06, 2014, 09:26:28 AM
What's considered date correct?

Did anyone speak to this?  Perhaps I missed it.  You've got the assembly date of the engine that needs to precede the car's build date by I think between an week and a month?  Then you've got the block casting date that needs to precede the engine build date by??  Is it a range from a couple weeks to say 3+ months?  Don't you also have a date stamped on the intake manifold?  (assuming you're going w/ an "original" one)  What's the range on that relative to the casting date and/or engine build date?  Are there any other significant dates on the engine, and if so how are they supposed to line up relative to the others?

I mean if you've got an engine w/ a correct assembly date, but your block was cast 3 months after the car was built, it's not "date correct".  Has anyone commented on how these dates are supposed to line up?  I'd figure you would need ALL of these dates to line up properly before you can even call an engine "date correct", no?

1974dodgecharger

Thx....


Quote from: xs29bb1 on February 08, 2014, 05:43:33 PM
Quote from: 1974dodgecharger on February 06, 2014, 09:26:28 AM
What's considered date correct?

Did anyone speak to this?  Perhaps I missed it.  You've got the assembly date of the engine that needs to precede the car's build date by I think between an week and a month?  Then you've got the block casting date that needs to precede the engine build date by??  Is it a range from a couple weeks to say 3+ months?  Don't you also have a date stamped on the intake manifold?  (assuming you're going w/ an "original" one)  What's the range on that relative to the casting date and/or engine build date?  Are there any other significant dates on the engine, and if so how are they supposed to line up relative to the others?

I mean if you've got an engine w/ a correct assembly date, but your block was cast 3 months after the car was built, it's not "date correct".  Has anyone commented on how these dates are supposed to line up?  I'd figure you would need ALL of these dates to line up properly before you can even call an engine "date correct", no?

500Jon

Hi Folks,
Its common knowledge that a 'green' block casting is almost the same as green-oak.
It has to be weathered for at least 6 months before machining!
I have seen a numbers matching 1970 casting in its original 1973 car!!!
The build date is stamped onto the block by the engine builder.
This does not include the year by number, but by date LETTER.
The casting date can be anything from 6 months to a couple of years earlier.
Best not to use a post 70 engine block in any pre-smog 'MUSCLE CAR' irrespective of internals!

Are there better early or late blocks???
Not relative for pavement pounders, but very important for High Horsepower engines.
Mother Mopars best block was the 1971 400 casting.
Used by the very best low-deck racers as its easily the strongest ever made.
My friend in England owns an ex-Landy block used by Tom Nelson for the Engine Master Challenge in 2003.
Engine made 700 horses on pump gas!!!

500Jon
IF A JOB's WORTH DOING, ITS WORTH DOING WELL, RIP DAD.
4-SPEED, 1969 Charger-500 is the most Coolio car in the World!

dyslexic teddybear

Just my  :Twocents:

The more original a car is.....the more "date correct" it is, the more value.

Likely the best example.....a near survivor,that is only missing the engine.....date correct could mean a big difference in value. That's pretty much the only place it would mean anything to me. If everything else is there, I can see it making quite a difference.

Interesting thought.....about it showing more care in restoring. Never considered that...... :scratchchin:

Guess it would make a more positive impression. :yesnod:


BROCK

Carb, Intake, Exhaust, Engine Block, Belts, Hoses, Distributor & Coil all have
a date code on them.  All of these date codes add up to points if you want to
go the concourse judging route. 

=============================================
Let your music be in transit to the world

Lord Warlock

I think that's taking date correct to the extreme, I call my motor date correct only in that it was built and installed in another 69 model car, in my case it was another 69 charger r/t, and was the numbers matching motor for that car.  If a car has a non matching numbers engine, the build date doesn't mean much to me, as long as it isn't a 1974 or later 440 or a motorhome block.  I would assume people would want a motor that is as close to the original date as possible, and if I sold the car I'd explain how the current engine arrived in its location.  I killed the NM motor.

69 RT/SE Y3 cream yellow w/tan vinyl top and black r/t stripe. non matching 440/375, 3:23, Column shift auto w/buddy seat, tan interior, am/fm w/fr to back fade, Now wears 17" magnum 500 rims and Nitto tires. Fresh repaint, new interior, new wheels and tires.

1974dodgecharger

as you guys said its more for the salesman to make more money and what a coincidence this guy talks about 'date correct motor' etc..sicne the engine had no vin of any sort etc..at roughly 8mins:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5T70JQb3AJg

James K

An all number matching car with all the paperwork is much more valuable then one that has items replaced.  Like what was said, an all original car is only original once. A car does not lose much value if anything that normally wears out has been replaced with OEM parts (tires are the exception I believe, putting radials on a car that came with bias-ply is ok, unless you are going to a Concours deElegance show).

If the car is not numbers matching then it comes down to what the buyer wants. The terms "Date Correct," "Period Correct," and "Resto-Mod" are selling terms. Since number matching cars are rare, many people are "upgrading" their cars to perform and handle like a modern car, but keeping the original look.

Unless you are auto restorer, you will never get back the money you spent on your car. Where you make up the difference is the enjoyment you get from owning and driving your baby around.
1969 Dodge Charger R/T, 727 Auto, 8-Track, Factory A/C, Console, Double Black, Period Correct 440-4BBL, Matching Numbers Tranny and Diff.
1970 Plymouth Roadrunner, 727 Auto, Air Grabber, Black Bench Seat, Black Vinyl Top, K3 Burnt Orange, Period Correct 440-4BBL, Matching numbers Tranny and Diff.

hemigeno

Quote from: xs29bb1 on February 08, 2014, 04:34:49 PM
Quote from: 1974dodgecharger on February 08, 2014, 03:42:37 PM
I have a date correct on my 68 that came off the line nov 7  of 67.

In that case date correct is the best you're going to get, right?  I mean there is no VIN on a '67 engine, so....


I thought (at one time) the consensus opinion was that all 1968 model HP engines were stamped with a partial VIN - even during the 1967 calendar year?

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,14753.msg166599.html#msg166599

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,936.msg12804.html#msg12804


Quote from: 69CoronetRT on February 05, 2014, 10:43:18 PM
Quote from: Homerr on February 05, 2014, 09:44:59 PM
If you're restoring it to original condition, then yes I'd say it adds value.  Depends on the whole package.  If you're selling a junker with a date correct engine then it might be worth a couple hundred dollars in the whole deal. 

I agree. It's all context.

If you want to swap in a 'date correct' 440 in place of a 383. It doesn't mean a lot. Probably the value of a rebuilt 440 over a rebuilt 383.

If you do the above and throw on a bunch of aftermarket parts. I don't care at all. It adds no value to me.

If you want to find a date correct 440 for a true 'restoration' on a car (not a 'clone' 'tribute' or whatever word is trick this week) AND the engine compartment is stock to go with the rest of a 'stock' car, then I care. Not because it is a date correct block but it tells me you went to great pains to find a date correct block to be as accurate as you could be given the circumstances. It tells me you probably did a lot of other things to the best of your ability and I won't find any surprises in the car. In and of itself, the date correct block is still not original but it speaks to the integrity and character of the person that put it together. THAT adds value.

:iagree:  100%



69CoronetRT

QuoteI thought (at one time) the consensus opinion was that all 1968 model HP engines were stamped with a partial VIN - even during the 1967 calendar year?

Gene, In my personal opinion, I think this topic lacks credible research and a comprehensive data base on which to build a conclusion. This theory could be easily disproven by finding a VIN on any /6, 318, 383-2 or C body 440 or an HP engine that is not stamped. A data base with plant, engine assembly date, VIN or not and HP or not would clear up a lot of things.

As this is a Charger board, are there any members that have a VIN stamped on their original 1968 383? That would disprove the theory also.

What we do know is that not all plants stamped the VIN at the same time. One can find VINs stamped on 109XXX STL built cars which would be toward the start of the production year but it appears other plants did not stamp the engines that early.

Logically, it makes no sense to me to stamp only HP engines. A line worker would either stamp all or none. It would not be time effective to selectively stamp an engine. HP engines would only be a small percentage of engines that went down the line. It would be a waste of time to stand around and wait for HP only engines. two, what would be the logic for stamping only HP engines? They were a small percentage of assemblies. What value would that be to anyone? The company or line worker would not care if it was an HP or not when it came to putting on a VIN.

I believe people have found VINs on later built HP engines and not found VINs on earlier engines and made the erroneous conclusion that HP engines were stamped without taking into account plant and assembly/installation dates. :Twocents:
Seeking information on '69 St. Louis plant VINs, SPDs and VONs. Buld sheets and tag pictures appreciated. Over 3,000 on file thanks to people like you.

hemigeno

Doug, I certainly agree that there hasn't been a whole lot of dedicated research on this topic, but Dan / 8WHEELER has several examples which do fit the HP-only designation.  Then there's this (admittedly undocumented) reply related to 2v & 4v 383 engines which also fits:

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,936.msg12892.html#msg12892

What the logic was behind a HP-only requirement for stampings during the '68 model year (IF such a requirement was indeed the case), I haven't a clue - apart from POSSIBLY being tied to theft-prevention or recovery.  I've never heard stories of a /6 car having its engine stolen, but have heard multiple stories of 426 & 440 cars having their mill yanked.

You already know I'm not as up on '68 stuff as I am on '69s, so I won't be dogmatic about the subject at all.  It's just another interesting topic to me (among many).



xs29bb1

I'm certainly not an expert, but the conclusion reached on that link is that VIN numbers in 68 went with the model year and not the calendar year.

I'd never heard that before, and I've seen a lot of material stating the opposite

Additionally, I have an October 67 HP 440 with no VIN

I'm not saying one way or the other what's correct, but I was always told that it was calendar year.

xs29bb1

I contacted "Andy 440" and he said that if it's a 68 model year, the VIN should be on the block

Then I called a guy who rebuilds old Mopar engines for a living, and he said that engines made in 67 didn't have the VIN.

So, that cleared up nothing....    :shruggy:

69CoronetRT

Quote from: hemigeno on February 11, 2014, 02:21:25 PM
Doug, I certainly agree that there hasn't been a whole lot of dedicated research on this topic, but Dan / 8WHEELER has several examples which do fit the HP-only designation.  Then there's this (admittedly undocumented) reply related to 2v & 4v 383 engines which also fits:

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,936.msg12892.html#msg12892

What the logic was behind a HP-only requirement for stampings during the '68 model year (IF such a requirement was indeed the case), I haven't a clue - apart from POSSIBLY being tied to theft-prevention or recovery.  I've never heard stories of a /6 car having its engine stolen, but have heard multiple stories of 426 & 440 cars having their mill yanked.

You already know I'm not as up on '68 stuff as I am on '69s, so I won't be dogmatic about the subject at all.  It's just another interesting topic to me (among many).




QuoteYeah like I have said before I have and have had many 68 440's and the non HP engines have no stamp.
But all the 68 HP engines I have seen and have now have the stamping. Evan my September and
December 67 built 440 HP blocks are stamped, so it really did start some time in 67.

you know I find this stuff fascinating too.

The thread and Dan's input is certainly a valuable part of the total research. This missing component to the quote is 'from what plant?'

We know STL stamped engines 'early'. If he was looking at 440 HP blocks from GTX's or Coronet R/Ts built in the fall of '67 at the ST. Louis plant, then his statement would be correct.

If he was looking at non HP 440 blocks then he was looking at blocks from a C body and he very well could be correct.

We know plants started stamping the VINs at different times.

Jefferson (C body plant) may have not stamped blocks during the same time frame that STL did. That would make the comparison completely accurate and his conclusion valid based on what he had seen. However, it would also be erroneous to conclude that the reason the blocks were stamped or not stamped was due to the HP non-HP variation, not because of when the plant started stamping blocks.

You have to take the 440's out of the equation as the HPs and non HPs were installed at two different plants meaning you have to allow for plant variations. You have to compare 383's on the HP/Non-HP theory. Using 383's means you will be looking at cars from Lynch Road, ST. Louis and LA as those were the only plants that were installing 68 383HP engines. So, all we need to do is find a 383-4bbl non HP from one of those plants that is stamped and compare it to HP engines installed about the same time. That will give us a time frame on what that plant did during that particular time period.

My contention is there are other factors, besides the HP/non-HP that have to be taken into consideration before you can make a conclusion.

QuoteI've got a 68 383 2V Charger as well. Auto Tranny though. No VIN stamping on the block or transmission. The build date on the fender tag is June 12 68.
I currently have a 383 4V motor in the car that I pulled out of a 68 Charger. The block and trans bellhousing flange have the part VIN stamped on them
in the same place as the photo that Dan posted.

Let's look at this one....no where does the poster say he has the original engine nor did he say he compared the engine assembly date of the engine to the SPD to even see if it could be the original engine. This one is a 'we don't know yet'.

Then he says he pulled a 383-4V out of a 68 Charger that does have a VIN stamp. That tells us it wasn't an HP VS non HP thing as 68 Chargers did not get the 335 horse HP assembly. (Or he owns a Charger built at the STL plant and the car mistakenly received an engine assembly destined for a Super Bee or Road Runner.) If it's a Hamtramck built car, then that points to it NOT being an HP thing as Hamtramck plant would not have received B body 383HP engines destined for RRs and SBs as a matter of normal business.

This, as many other topics, is a valid and valuable matter that requires detailed and in depth research taking into account ALL variables besides an HP stampings in order to draw a valid conclusion. I'd like to see someone tackle it and publish the results. :Twocents:
Seeking information on '69 St. Louis plant VINs, SPDs and VONs. Buld sheets and tag pictures appreciated. Over 3,000 on file thanks to people like you.

1974dodgecharger

Quote from: xs29bb1 on February 11, 2014, 03:58:44 PM
I contacted "Andy 440" and he said that if it's a 68 model year, the VIN should be on the block

Then I called a guy who rebuilds old Mopar engines for a living, and he said that engines made in 67 didn't have the VIN.

So, that cleared up nothing....    :shruggy:

they are both RIGHT....someone mentioned already starting Jan. 1st 68 they vin was stamped on there, but pre that no VIN stamping only date it manufactured on the engine block.   My 68 came off the line I think Nov or Dec. 7th of 67 so my engine does not have a matching VIN to the car itself.

Thats why some folks laugh when they say, I have a matching numbers 66 charger, HEMI, 4 speed, etc....no way to prove it unless they had the build sheet to back it up.

Thats how I understood it...

69CoronetRT

Quote from: 1974dodgecharger on February 12, 2014, 02:13:30 AM

they are both RIGHT....someone mentioned already starting Jan. 1st 68 they vin was stamped on there, but pre that no VIN stamping only date it manufactured on the engine block.   My 68 came off the line I think Nov or Dec. 7th of 67 so my engine does not have a matching VIN to the car itself.


Here's are two STL cars. The first sequence number puts it in August of '67.
The second is from a car with an SPD of October of 67
From what plant is your car?

A valid topic that needs more research before drawing conclusions.
Seeking information on '69 St. Louis plant VINs, SPDs and VONs. Buld sheets and tag pictures appreciated. Over 3,000 on file thanks to people like you.

1974dodgecharger

Ill have to double check where my car came off again.  I think the topic has been discussed before and usually comes up every 6 months or so and gets pretty in depth each time about the vin matching block and tranny to the car itself.

69CoronetRT

Quote from: 1974dodgecharger on February 12, 2014, 04:13:13 AM
Ill have to double check where my car came off again. 

It's from Hamtramck.

Again, a valid topic to research if someone wants to give it a whirl. The results would be valuable to the hobby.
Seeking information on '69 St. Louis plant VINs, SPDs and VONs. Buld sheets and tag pictures appreciated. Over 3,000 on file thanks to people like you.