Sticking with cast heads for build.

[Canadian1968]

I won't be ready for engine work for another year. Probably a good idea! As I can't decided what I want to do . I have an old thread on here where you guys helped me plan out a nice combo for a reliable 500hp motor. I am now thinking that I may want to stick with stock heads to keep some of the originality of the car ( it is a numbers matching r/t) .

If I choose the stock heads what would be a decent combo to go with. Looking for 475 hp if possible. I think the biggest pick would be which cam to go with that will work with cast heads

[BSB67]

Call Dwayne Porter.  I think that he just speced a hydraulic cam for a factory head, exhaust manifold car that made 450 or 475 on the pump.  It did have a six pack IIRC.

[Canadian1968]

I am going to put headers on the car , I already have them 1 3/4"

[Canadian1968]

I guess you probably want some more info.

Here is what I can give you .

The engine would be rebuilt to freshin' up all the seals and have everything balanced.

Holley street dominator intake
Holley 750 Dual Feed Vac Sec.
Stock heads.
Stock Rods.
1 3/4 Headers with 2.5 X pipe.
Stock 8 3/4 sure grip with 3.23 Gears

what i need help with

Cam
Valve train upgrades?
Piston  ( would like to stay at 10:1 )
and what Stall to go with

I can't tell you tire size yet as that would be a total guess at this point.

[ACUDANUT]

I would ask monitor "firefighter". He is one of our engine guru's.

[cudaken]

 I second Fire Fighter! With some work the 906's heads will flow well for a street engine. 440's where making 500 HP long before they came out with the Eddy heads.

Cuda Ken

[femtnmax]

Call Dwayne Porter. 

Have him port your iron heads.  He has an excellent rep.   and let me see them afterwords.

[BSB67]

440's where making 500 HP long before the came out with the Eddy heads.

People do seem to forget this

[Canadian1968]

440's where making 500 HP long before the came out with the Eddy heads.

People do seem to forget this

Exactly, There are hundreds of builds on this board, but 90% are using after market heads I am stil searching threw them to try and find a few that use some stock heads. !!

I would like to hear opinions , which would provide a better bang for your buck.  Have the heads ported, keeping stock valve size, or having bigger valves ( 2.14 - 1.88) installed.

[firefighter3931]

Sure, you can make 500hp with ported factory iron but you will spend a fair amount of money rebuilding/porting. In most cases it's not cost effective because the rebuild costs can exceed the cost of a brand new aluminum casting. 

The aluminum heads are 50 lbs lighter, have a nice closed chamber for tight quench and won't crack like an iron head can after it's been ported. The cost of rebuilding/porting factory castings has basicly made them obsolete. 

If you're looking for a true 500hp build, the aluminum head is going to be your easiest and most reliable path to that goal. 



Ron

[Canadian1968]

The only reason I have been rethinking the combo, is I don't think I really need 500HP.  Had the chance to ride in a few mid 13s cars last summer, and decided that is plenty fast for me.

That beening said, my goal isn't so much, 500HP I am looking at 13 sec flat.  Now if I am still gonna need 500HP to hit that goal I guess I am back at square one.

My Boss at work has a 440 in his 67 GTX . He lowered compression to 9:1 becuase he wanted to run 89 oct, stock heads,  has a set of headers and eddy intake.  3.55 gears  and I think 2500 stall.  I watched him run 14.2 last year, with horrible launch. He told me he had it dynoed wiht 290HP  to the rear wheels.

I know there are a lot of other factors, in reaching 13s.  But if I want to stick wiht a 3.23 gear, what would be a healthy motor that would be able to get me there.

[BSB67]

Sure, you can make 500hp with ported factory iron but you will spend a fair amount of money rebuilding/porting. In most cases it's not cost effective because the rebuild costs can exceed the cost of a brand new aluminum casting.  

The aluminum heads are 50 lbs lighter, have a nice closed chamber for tight quench and won't crack like an iron head can after it's been ported. The cost of rebuilding/porting factory castings has basicly made them obsolete.  

If you're looking for a true 500hp build, the aluminum head is going to be your easiest and most reliable path to that goal.  

This too is very true.

In my opinion, if a guy wants an iron head, the 915 is the only practical choice.  If you have a low performance, low compression 440, or any 383, the 915s can bring it to life.  But you will probably have $1000 to $1200 to make them good, and that is without porting.  Add hardened seats, machining for seals and spring cups and porting will probably take you to $2,000.  At this point, you now have a cast iron head that will probably match a OOTB Stealth, but short of OOTB Eddys and can get you to 500 hp.   I'm not a machinist or head porter, so if my $ numbers are incorrect, please straighten me out.

If you are building a 440, and want and iron head, the 915, IMO is still the better choice, but you will need to use a dished piston to get your desirable quench and a decent compression ratio.

I have a couple sets of 915s.  One set is what I call a test set.  They are a very good set of heads.  Bronze guides, conventional 2.08/1.74, back cut and competition valve job and 77 cc chambers.  No porting.  My Charger with a 440, weighing slightly over 4200 lb w/ me and the MP .455" cam went high 13.20s just short of 105 mph.

Took the heads off and put them on by buddy's car, Jim.   Jim's has a 1968 GTX 4 spd.  It had a low dollar previously re built 440 in it  (I think this story might ring home for many on this board).  It had headers, 750 Holley, original Torker aluminum intake.  Car ran 14.20s @ 99 mph after three Friday evenings at Edgewater's test and tune.  We took off his heads, replaced them with mine, used shim gaskets, installed my factory cast iron spreadbore intake and Holley spreadbore carb.  First night out it ran 13.50s @ 103 and some change.

[ACUDANUT]

Getting head is costly. 

[heyoldguy]

A clean set of good cores (452, 346, 915, 906, 902, 213) and $1550 will get you new guides, valves and porting to 285 cfm. Milling, hard seats, retainers, locks, springs, seals & blah, blah, blah is an additional cost. Any of the above mentioned heads can go to those flows. The highest potential stock iron head is the 906 which can go 330+ cfm. The heads to avoid for high flows would be the 1968 250, 1964-67 516 and non-maxwedge heads 1963 and earlier.

[BSB67]

Milling, hard seats, retainers, locks, springs, seals & blah, blah, blah is an additional cost. Any of the above mentioned heads can go to those flows.

Thanks.  Yes my $ number estimate included those things.

And, I went back and looked at my collection of head flow data, and my ported iron heads do outflow OOTB Eddy RPMs, Eddy E-Streets, Stealths to 0.500" lift, and they equal or out flow Stage I porting on E-Streets and Stealths to 0.500".  Of course I recognize that not everyone's porting work is the same.

[JB400]

Sure, you can make 500hp with ported factory iron but you will spend a fair amount of money rebuilding/porting. In most cases it's not cost effective because the rebuild costs can exceed the cost of a brand new aluminum casting.  

The aluminum heads are 50 lbs lighter, have a nice closed chamber for tight quench and won't crack like an iron head can after it's been ported. The cost of rebuilding/porting factory castings has basicly made them obsolete.  

If you're looking for a true 500hp build, the aluminum head is going to be your easiest and most reliable path to that goal.  



Ron

But, do the aluminum heads flow just as well as a ported cast iron head, right out of the box?  I doubt it.  That's what makes them out of range for quite a few of us.  But, if I had a head that did need replaced, then one should consider upgrading to the aluminum version.  

Doing your own porting drops the costs down considerably if you have the equipment and the patience.

Personally, I'm considering the Stage V cast iron heads.  Anything wrong with those?

[heyoldguy]

Sure, you can make 500hp with ported factory iron but you will spend a fair amount of money rebuilding/porting. In most cases it's not cost effective because the rebuild costs can exceed the cost of a brand new aluminum casting.  

The aluminum heads are 50 lbs lighter, have a nice closed chamber for tight quench and won't crack like an iron head can after it's been ported. The cost of rebuilding/porting factory castings has basicly made them obsolete.  

If you're looking for a true 500hp build, the aluminum head is going to be your easiest and most reliable path to that goal.  



Ron

But, do the aluminum heads flow just as well as a ported cast iron head, right out of the box?  I doubt it.  That's what makes them out of range for quite a few of us.  But, if I had a head that did need replaced, then one should consider upgrading to the aluminum version.  

Doing your own porting drops the costs down considerably if you have the equipment and the patience.

Personally, I'm considering the Stage V cast iron heads.  Anything wrong with those?

Generally the OOTB aluminum head will outflow a ported factory iron head. Some people who know what they are doing can get the ported iron head better than the OOTB aluminum. Most people who port the iron heads are just learning and trying to save a buck. Those like that and those who get the templates and port the heads will generally not equal an aluminum head.

Stage V article from 2001.    http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/howto/mopp_0106_how_to_install_ported_stage_v_heads/#13918884767811&1,tss

[c00nhunterjoe]

Another important item that 90% of people i talk to overlook is what lift the headflow is measured at. Sure, those advertised brand "abc" heads may flow 350 cfm but its usually ay .700 or .800 lift. The average true street driven car runs a .550 lift cam max. .600 pushing your limits for a reliable valvetrain. Dont be fooled by the advertised flow numbers. While they are important, you need to see what the flows are at your particular usable rpm range.

[Canadian1968]

Well I get the idea, if I want to keep the iron heads, i am gonna pay some $$$ to get them to flow enough to hit 500HP.  Easily more than a set of Stealth heads. 

Now back to my question that I asked,  what kind of HP/TQ should I aim for if I want to hit 13s flat. Keeping 3.23 gears.   

[cudaken]

Well I get the idea, if I want to keep the iron heads, i am gonna pay some $$$ to get them to flow enough to hit 500HP.  Easily more than a set of Stealth heads. 

Now back to my question that I asked,  what kind of HP/TQ should I aim for if I want to hit 13s flat. Keeping 3.23 gears.   

The 3:23's are going to hurt you, unless your Charger weights 2600 pounds. 

13.00 flat, I am thinking stroker and or a BIG BOTTLE! Great flowing heads and great cam normally pushes HP to higher RPM's. When I was racing I want my max HP about 50 to 100 feet before I crossed the finish line.

Cuda Ken 

[BSB67]

Well I get the idea, if I want to keep the iron heads, i am gonna pay some $$$ to get them to flow enough to hit 500HP.  Easily more than a set of Stealth heads.  

Now back to my question that I asked,  what kind of HP/TQ should I aim for if I want to hit 13s flat. Keeping 3.23 gears.  

400 hp @ 3900 lbs with the DA <2000.  Stock converter, 3.23 gear, 2.0 60 ft time (achievable w/o any suspension mods), P 225 70 14 BFG radials.   The car will trap around 106 or 107.  Add headers and it will go faster.

You can do it with a 0.48" lift cam.

[Challenger340]

Looks... HEADS are great !
But IMO,
for 475 HP.... with even the most mundane of factory Iron Heads... which ALL are capable of supporting even with stock 2.08/1.74 valves and portwork ?
is a completely moot point...
unless it is know WHAT Manifolds BOTH Intake & Exhaust you are planning here ?
Apologies... maybe I missed it somewhere ?

If low 13's is all you want... most people can RUN faster than that in sneakers, and no-where even near 475hp is required, little-lown mega dollar iron heads ?

[Challenger340]

Well I get the idea, if I want to keep the iron heads, i am gonna pay some $$$ to get them to flow enough to hit 500HP.  Easily more than a set of Stealth heads.  

Now back to my question that I asked,  what kind of HP/TQ should I aim for if I want to hit 13s flat. Keeping 3.23 gears.  

FORGET the Head Flow...
until,
you figure out WHAT MANIFOLDS you want to use to utilize that FLOW... or allow the exhaust to get out ?
For ANY E.T. or Gearing.

[heyoldguy]

I think it's interesting that stock Street Hemi's in 3900# B-Bodies, rated at 425 HP and 490 TQ would run the 1/4 mile with 3.23 and street tires around 13.7 and 103-104 mph.

[Cooter]

$1500.00 in a set of iron heads thatmlimit you to 10.0:1 compression. Therefore, limiting power.
not to mention the cost of the heads. (Usually, around $100-150.00 a set)....

Out of the box aluminum heads for $1500.00 that OUT FLOW the iron heads, and allow 11.0:1 compression on same fuel...


Now, you know why.....

[BSB67]

I think it's interesting that stock Street Hemi's in 3900# B-Bodies, rated at 425 HP and 490 TQ would run the 1/4 mile with 3.23 and street tires around 13.7 and 103-104 mph.

Right.  Factory numbers were somewhere between a little to a lot over inflated, usually by the time they got the car to the magazines they were in less than perfect tune, and if you get the details of the test run, they usually had some on board equipment and/or a second person. They usually came in at well above 4200 lbs.  And of course, the 60 ft times were not reported which has the biggest impact on et.  A 103/104 mph w/ a 2.0 to 2.05 60ft. will net a 13.30 to 13.40 unless something silly is happening mid track or a fuel problem on the big end..

[Canadian1968]

Well I get the idea, if I want to keep the iron heads, i am gonna pay some $$$ to get them to flow enough to hit 500HP.  Easily more than a set of Stealth heads.  

Now back to my question that I asked,  what kind of HP/TQ should I aim for if I want to hit 13s flat. Keeping 3.23 gears.  

FORGET the Head Flow...
until,
you figure out WHAT MANIFOLDS you want to use to utilize that FLOW... or allow the exhaust to get out ?
For ANY E.T. or Gearing.

I know 13 flat ( if I could dip into the 12 I would not be upset!) is nothing crazy but that is why I want to aim for it. I know it is do able with reasonable ease.

The headers area hedmans 1 3/4 with a 2.5 x pipe all the way to the back .  I was looking at a Holley street dominator , but with my lowered HP goals I think I might not have the motor to make use of the single plane?? In which case I would look at the eddy rpm dual plane.  The carb I have right now is the Holley 750 .

[firefighter3931]

I know 13 flat ( if I could dip into the 12 I would not be upset!) is nothing crazy but that is why I want to aim for it.

"I know it is do able with reasonable ease"

It's harder than you think 

The 3.23 gears are going to hurt, especially with a heavy car. You need torque multiplication to effectively launch the car and keep it accelerating down track. You're going to need descent tires so it'll 60ft properly. Weight transfer with suspension mods to plant the back tires is very important as well. 



Ron

[Canadian1968]

Sounds like higher gear is strongly recommended ?? 3.55 ??

[BSB67]

You absolutely do not need a different gear!!!!

I do agree that it is not a walk in the park.  But good planning it wont be hard.  

If you want to change gears, converter, and tires, make that part of your plan.  If your goal is 13.0, and you have not built the engine, it does not make sense to me that you would build a motor that was short 30 hp of your goal, and you then purchase $2,000 of suspension parts to achieve your goal.

The information that I posted was not theoretical or read in a magazine.  Call it what ever horse power you like, but if you make enough power to go 106 - 107 you'll be right the at your goal.  The 2.0 60 ft will take a little practice if you are using a small BFG type street tire.  Also notice that in my earlier statement there was a qualifier....DA <2000 ft.  If you are wanting to run a 12.80 at 3500 ft altitude, on a 95° F day, it will take a lot more power than running a 13.0 at Atco (about sea level) in the fall.

Build a solid 440 with 9.5 to 10.0:1 CR (iron head) with quench.  This will be a bit of a PITA with 906 heads.
Good set of heads with comp valve grind and ported to flow 260 at .500" lift.
Use the RPM intake and headers with a mandrel bent 2 1/2" exhaust system and ultra low mufflers.
Use about any decent cam with 230 to 236° intake lobe measured at 0.050" would work.  I would use a LSA of 110 or maybe 112.

I like to add adjustable rockers to everything that I build. But I have friends that have done what you are trying to do with the factory stamped steel.

The problem I see with this combo is the 906 heads.  If you build this motor, your short block will be set up for 906 heads unless you change pistons.

There are a bunch of other ways to get to your goal.  This is what I would recommend.   You could skip the porting and add a bigger cam, as an example.

If you would like for me to give you the details of several different combinations that have met you goal, let me know.

[Canadian1968]

You absolutely do not need a different gear!!!!

I do agree that it is not a walk in the park.  But good planning it wont be hard.  

If you want to change gears, converter, and tires, make that part of your plan.  If your goal is 13.0, and you have not built the engine, it does not make sense to me that you would build a motor that was short 30 hp of your goal, and you then purchase $2,000 of suspension parts to achieve your goal.

The information that I posted was not theoretical or read in a magazine.  Call it what ever horse power you like, but if you make enough power to go 106 - 107 you'll be right the at your goal.  The 2.0 60 ft will take a little practice if you are using a small BFG type street tire.  Also notice that in my earlier statement there was a qualifier....DA <2000 ft.  If you are wanting to run a 12.80 at 3500 ft altitude, on a 95° F day, it will take a lot more power than running a 13.0 at Atco (about sea level) in the fall.

Build a solid 440 with 9.5 to 10.0:1 CR (iron head) with quench.  This will be a bit of a PITA with 906 heads.
Good set of heads with comp valve grind and ported to flow 260 at .500" lift.
Use the RPM intake and headers with a mandrel bent 2 1/2" exhaust system and ultra low mufflers.
Use about any decent cam with 230 to 236° intake lobe measured at 0.050" would work.  I would use a LSA of 110 or maybe 112.

I like to add adjustable rockers to everything that I build. But I have friends that have done what you are trying to do with the factory stamped steel.

The problem I see with this combo is the 906 heads.  If you build this motor, your short block will be set up for 906 heads unless you change pistons.

There are a bunch of other ways to get to your goal.  This is what I would recommend.   You could skip the porting and add a bigger cam, as an example.

If you would like for me to give you the details of several different combinations that have met you goal, let me know.

Thank you now there is some info to chew on. !!

I am obviously playing with the same factor that everyone else has....... a bit of a budget.  There is not one set in stone,  but if I can keep a few of the parts that I already have, that will work toward what I want, then why not use them !!  If I dont' have to replace every single part of my drive train, I would perfer not to !!!

I am just finishing up rebuilding the entire rear frame / trunk of the car.  I want to be able to drive the car this summer. As posted before I already have the exhuast purchased for the car, ( yes I am actually using ultra flows already ).  The engine will get me threw the summer with out issue as it is now.

BUT !!! I obviously have the rear end out of the car right now, if I need to put in gears , this is the time to do it i realize.  But it is also probably an additional $500 (parts and labour)  that I had not planned on spending before summer.  If I can use other parts of the drive train to help me wiht my 3.23 I would rather do that.

I dont' totally understand the Tire size / gear relation.  I would like to put a different rim/tire combo on there eventually, I like the look of a 16/17" rim.  So going bigger will that hurt or help my Tire/gear ratio??

I am also going to purchase a set of CE adjustable shocks for the front and rear, this should give me a bit help with weight transfer ??


Let go wiht that before, we start talking about the engine again???

[Cooter]

Taller than a 26-27" tall tire will hurt final drive ratio. Example...
3.23 gear with a 26" tall tire = 3.23.....
3.23 gear with say, a 30" tall tire/wheel (like some of those pimp wheels you see), final drive ratio acts like 2.76.....

[Canadian1968]

Ok so if I keep the 3.23 I deffinantly need to keep my over all tire diameter the same

[firefighter3931]

Or if you plan to go with a taller tire....adjust the axle ratio to compensate 

The reason I suggested a deeper axle ratio is becaue most Charger guys use a 275/60 out back. 

275/60 with 3.23 gears knocks it down to 2.99 final drive.

275/60 with 3.55 gears knocks it down to 3.30 final drive

So, using a 3.55 with a 28in tall 275/60 is basicly the same as using a 3.23 with a 26in tall (stock height) tire



Ron

[firefighter3931]

Build a solid 440 with 9.5 to 10.0:1 CR (iron head) with quench.  This will be a bit of a PITA with 906 heads.
Good set of heads with comp valve grind and ported to flow 260 at .500" lift.

While I agree that a 260cfm@.500 will get the job done with a reasonably streetable cam....I'd say you'd be hard pressed to do that for less than the cost of a set of RPM's.....and you'd still be stuck with 40 yr old castings that can crack and also weigh a lot more (50 lbs) than a set of RPM's. 


Ron

[cudaken]

 68, you lost me when you said "I like the look of a 16/17" rim.", yea I am old! But then again, Mom and Dad could not understand why I wanted Bell Bottom pant's either! 

Here is something for you to play with.

http://vexer.com/automotive-tools/speed-rpm-calculator

Gives you something to think and play with.

Good luck with your quest.

Cuda Ken

[c00nhunterjoe]

It can be done. And it can be done on a budget. It all depends on your capabilities and resources and willingness to be meticulous with details. I am doing it with a 383 and "junk" 516 heads. I cant hit 12's every day because like bsb said, when the air quality is horrible and its 100° out i cant do it but on a good evening im in the 12's with my jalopy. Shes a solid low 13 second car every run. Its a 4 speed and a blast to drive. I cruise it everywhere and if i stick to 45-50 mph i can get 11 or 12 mpg. Its super reliable, requires no maintenance other then a yearly oil change and air filter cleaning and turns heads everywhere i go.

[69wannabe]

$1500.00 in a set of iron heads thatmlimit you to 10.0:1 compression. Therefore, limiting power.
not to mention the cost of the heads. (Usually, around $100-150.00 a set)....

Out of the box aluminum heads for $1500.00 that OUT FLOW the iron heads, and allow 11.0:1 compression on same fuel...


Now, you know why.....

Well said Cooter! I am planning on swapping to a set of eddy RPM's when I get my credit card paid down some more!! I have a set of cast big valve heads on my engine now but there are several more advantages to aluminum heads than just having bigger valves and more flow.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Yes, but you dont have to buy aluminum heads to get into the 12's nor do you have to dump a ton of money into iron heads either. Build the rest of yiur engine around your heads. Its more difficult when you are on a tight budget but not impossible.

[firefighter3931]

Yes, but you dont have to buy aluminum heads to get into the 12's nor do you have to dump a ton of money into iron heads either. Build the rest of yiur engine around your heads. Its more difficult when you are on a tight budget but not impossible.

The OP is looking for a mild 440 that will idle at 850 and run a brake booster. 

Joe, your 383 runs well but it has a 509 cam and 1300rpm idle using 4.10's to wind her up....apples vs oranges. 


Ron

[firefighter3931]

Here's a good article by Dwayne @ Porter Racing Heads on cylinder head porting. The post is several years old so the pricing is not current but it gives you an idea of how much work it takes to make a set of factory heads flow as well as a set of "as delivered" RPM's 

http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bb/40.html


Ron

[ACUDANUT]

Yes, but you dont have to buy aluminum heads to get into the 12's nor do you have to dump a ton of money into iron heads either. Build the rest of yiur engine around your heads. Its more difficult when you are on a tight budget but not impossible.

Very true. 

[Canadian1968]

If I decided to go with the aluminum heads . They will be stealth heads....

[Troy]

If low 13's is all you want... most people can RUN faster than that in sneakers

Sorry, but this has me rolling! 

Troy

[firefighter3931]

If I decided to go with the aluminum heads . They will be stealth heads....

The Stealth is a descent head but it is no RPM   

Out of the box you're leaving 40-50 hp on the table vs an RPM. 



Ron

[moparsr2fast]

    Just my    but i have been a machinist for almost 30 years, and know my way around metal. That being said, i generally will spend around 40 hours porting a set of iron heads start to finish. And while they work very well, it isn't the most fun way to kill time.  My vote is for the aluminum  heads also. 

[c00nhunterjoe]

Yes, but you dont have to buy aluminum heads to get into the 12's nor do you have to dump a ton of money into iron heads either. Build the rest of yiur engine around your heads. Its more difficult when you are on a tight budget but not impossible.

The OP is looking for a mild 440 that will idle at 850 and run a brake booster. 

Joe, your 383 runs well but it has a 509 cam and 1300rpm idle using 4.10's to wind her up....apples vs oranges. 


Ron

My point was you dont need a ton of money to dip in the 12's. If you want it to idle likes its bone stock it will take a little more. So my "budget" suggestion will be to punch the 440 .060 and run a set of kb236's on those stock heads. Run a comp xs282 or maybe 1 step down. In my opinion a small to mild solid will be a better choice then a hydraulic for what he expects out of idle temperment and vaccum. The bottom line like everyone aggrees is if you are going to dump a ton of money to port iron headz just buy aluminum. If you are hell bent on runni g iron heads over aluminum then perhaps looking into a set of max wedge iron heads and really wake up that 440...

[ACUDANUT]

What are max wedge heads going for these days.?  I wonder why they did not make these the standard heads.

[Cooter]

Used to be a time when aluminum heads was considered 'race only' due to price.
now however, it seems that spending $150.00 on a set of iron heads that need by the time your done, around $1000.00 worth of work, when aluminum heads will out flow your port work, for about $300.00 more.

[ACUDANUT]

What are max wedge heads going for these days.?  I wonder why they did not make these the standard heads.

That did not answer my question. 

[Cooter]

Wasn't really replying to you....however, the max wedge iron heads are damn near as much as the Eddy's.

[Cooter]

Year One is like $900.00 for one head.

[firefighter3931]

A Max Wedge head on a stock stroke 440 is going to feel pretty soft off idle with poor throttle response. The large port window reduces intake port air speed and velocity. What you want is a head the is small (port volume wise) that flows lots of air....best of both worlds. 

The MW head will make great top end power but low speed performance will suffer....a lot ! 

The original application for the MW head was a big compression/solid cam engine that wasn't rpm limited. The powerband was fairly narrow ; 4000-7000 rpm was the sweet spot. The good running maxie's used 4.30+ gears to get that engine speed up fast. 


Ron

[Cooter]

Ron, I'm confused. You say huge ports/valves need stupid compression and solid cam with dumptruck gears to perform?
Yet, 426 cubic inch V8's came with massive over ported versions called 'Hemi'....

[Canadian1968]

Checking out the Eddy heads on Summit racing.

RPM Heads - 60919 - Say they require a min of 2" Header, I never plan on running a header that big. Also says vaccum advance may not fit.

E-street Heads - 5090 - I just don't understand what the diffrence is , 84cc/210cc compared the two and the only difference is the RPM head has rectangle port these have square.

And of course the the angled plug problem ?

[ACUDANUT]

Dumb question. What is a solid cam ? ain't they all solid. 

[Cooter]

Dumb question. What is a solid cam ? ain't they all solid. 

Solid lifters-requires adjustable rockers...

Vs

Hydraulic lifter cam

[JB400]

Solid refers to the lifters.

Beat me by 20 seconds

[ACUDANUT]

I never played with adjustable rockers.  I like the hydraulic stock system. No brainer, and it works for me.

[69wannabe]

Stock rockers work for most hydraulic but some of the larger hydraulic cams need an adjustable valve train these days. It just gives you full control of your valve train if you plan to go from hydraulic to a solid cam.

[firefighter3931]

Ron, I'm confused. You say huge ports/valves need stupid compression and solid cam with dumptruck gears to perform?
Yet, 426 cubic inch V8's came with massive over ported versions called 'Hemi'....

Ya, and we all know how well those run with 3.23 gears and a 2k stall 


Ron

[firefighter3931]

Checking out the Eddy heads on Summit racing.

RPM Heads - 60919 - Say they require a min of 2" Header, I never plan on running a header that big. Also says vaccum advance may not fit.

E-street Heads - 5090 - I just don't understand what the diffrence is , 84cc/210cc compared the two and the only difference is the RPM head has rectangle port these have square.

And of course the the angled plug problem ?

The 60919 is a bare head.....you would want the 60929 which is a complete, ready to run unit. 

The E-Street head is basicly the same as an RPM but has lower quality valve seats....hence the difference in price.  The E-street is also available with a 75cc chamber for guys that have low compression engines with pistons that are way down in the hole and need a compression bump.

TTI makes a nice 1 7/8 in header that works fantastic with the RPM heads. 

I guess you need to sit down and figure out a budget to determine how much you have to spend on this part of the project. 


Ron

[Cooter]

Ron, I'm confused. You say huge ports/valves need stupid compression and solid cam with dumptruck gears to perform?
Yet, 426 cubic inch V8's came with massive over ported versions called 'Hemi'....

Ya, and we all know how well those run with 3.23 gears and a 2k stall 


Ron

[Back N Black]

I have the Eddy heads, Eddy RPM Intake and Comp cam with 1 7/8 TTI headers, engine dyno at 500 hp and 550 ft torque. I don't have alot of money into the engine, it really dosen't take much to get 500 hp out of a 440.

[BSB67]

I have the Eddy heads, Eddy RPM Intake and Comp cam with 1 7/8 TTI headers, engine dyno at 500 hp and 550 ft torque. I don't have alot of money into the engine, it really dosen't take much to get 500 hp out of a 440.

Very nice.  Have you ever taken it to the track?

[Canadian1968]

I have the Eddy heads, Eddy RPM Intake and Comp cam with 1 7/8 TTI headers, engine dyno at 500 hp and 550 ft torque. I don't have alot of money into the engine, it really dosen't take much to get 500 hp out of a 440.

And the rest of your engine is stock?

[Back N Black]

I have the Eddy heads, Eddy RPM Intake and Comp cam with 1 7/8 TTI headers, engine dyno at 500 hp and 550 ft torque. I don't have alot of money into the engine, it really dosen't take much to get 500 hp out of a 440.

And the rest of your engine is stock?

Complete rebuild, 30 over, stock bottom end.

[Canadian1968]

I have the Eddy heads, Eddy RPM Intake and Comp cam with 1 7/8 TTI headers, engine dyno at 500 hp and 550 ft torque. I don't have alot of money into the engine, it really dosen't take much to get 500 hp out of a 440.

And the rest of your engine is stock?

Complete rebuild, 30 over, stock bottom end.

Your running stock pistions??  Stock rockers ??

That still about 6000 - 7000 build start saving my pennies !

[don duick]

I bought a pair of edelbrock rpm heads and took them to the machine shop to have them checked out. 2 exhaust valves on one head did not seal had the seats cut and the valves faced. also changed springs locks and retainers. I was warned not to use these straight out of the box.

[charge69]

Ron, I'm confused. You say huge ports/valves need stupid compression and solid cam with dumptruck gears to perform?
Yet, 426 cubic inch V8's came with massive over ported versions called 'Hemi'....

Ya, and we all know how well those run with 3.23 gears and a 2k stall  


Ron

Actually, mine ran very well when it was stone stock back in the late '70;s.  Now, with a complete professional shop rebuild and now 30 thousands' overbore ( now about 432 cu. in.), 11 to 1 JE custom pistons, CompCams one-off (that means made especially for this build, not off the shelf) hydraulic roller cam and complete set up with springs, custom pushrods, Manley SS valves and hardened valve seats, stock bottom end but Manley H-beam rods and caps and complete ARP bolt kit and a few other subtle but done-right tricks, it makes 588hp @ 6500rpms on the dyno and was still climbing as we shut it down. It's a snarly beast now with a rough idle that really get's your attention if you are near it. The drooling over it when the hood opens is abundant!

I have factory-installed 3.23 gears and am using the original 2500rpm torque converter. It could use a higher rpm torque converter but the original works for me and I doubt you would think it runs bad with it! Matter of fact, you better get out of the way as it begins to wail away on its' original twin 4-barrel intake, AFB Carbs and TTi X-Pipe exhaust!

My friend who helped me with the restoration has a '74 Challenger he restored using a nice 383/727 auto combo with an 8 3/4 rear and he has taken it down the strip with everything from a 2.76 to a 4.30 and it makes about 1/2 second advantage using the 4.30's vs the 2.76.  He would love to have a 3.23 in it for just running around on the street as he agrees with me that the 3.23 is the best street combo going! Just to let you know, his times with it are high 12's with the short gearing to low 13's with the tall gears. He also has a badazz '69 Roadrunner, fully restored with the numbers-matching motor and 727 auto pulled and a 451 stroker in its' place that turns 11.20's @ 120mph thru the mufflers resting inside it now. I believe he runs 3.55 gears in it for those times! Next to be restored is his '70 cuda 440-6 with a shaker hood that is original and an unusual B3 color!

Could my Charger use a higher stall converter and steeper gears? probably but, it runs great now and I am happy with it!