idles low in drive

[motoreese]

I have a 69 Dodge Charger, it came with 318 but previous owner installed a 383...since I bought it in oct, ive had to work on it weekly forsomething. I almost have the electrical problem licked...but she wont idle very high in gear. I have tweeked and adjusted the card repeatedly and its a NEW Edlebrock 750.
if I have the idle set at 1000rpm when I put it in gear it almost stalls. I turn on head lights and it dies. If I jack the idle up to 1300 then when I stick it in gear it idles around 600-700 and the volts go way low, I turn on head lights and it wants to die.
When I drive it I have to slip it into neutral at stops or im afraid she will die. It hesitates when ifirst take off and wants to die.
When I hit the brakes the head lights flicker and my stereo resets. Its like its not getting enough juice but I have had the alternator tested 3 times and each time it passes. Ive gone through 3 voltage regulators, one ignition coil, ignition switch, 3 different batteries (750 CCA) now. Ive set the timing by specs from edlebrock. They said itrequires retarding the timing a little bit. Ive tried adjusting the air/fuel mixure screws with vacuum gauge. Ive had different people with more experence look at it and they are stumped.

Any assistance would be very much appreciated, im going nuts! This has been my dream car since I was 5, I bought it as my retirement present from the military...its turning into my nightmare...

[c00nhunterjoe]

Whats done to the engine? If its even got a mild cam in it and a stock torque converter then you can count on having idle probs. Edlebrocks are a pain to tune too.

[motoreese]

Thank you for your reply, unfortunately I have no idea what has been done to the engine. However it does idle rough so people are telling me they think it may have a slight Cam in it. It came with a Holly 750 but everybody I spoke to said they were Jonke so I bought an Edelbrock. Nobody told me they were a pain everybody told me that Edelbrock carburetors were very easy simple to work on. That's why I spent the money or else I would've stayed with a holly 750.
So are you saying that this sounds like a normal operation for the car lol?
I guess that's what everybody means when it comes to "welcome to the wonderful world of Mopar!"
If this is normal then I guess I'm okay with it I just want to make sure nothing is wrong with my baby...
Thanks again sir!

[JB400]

What pulleys are on it?  You might have a mismatched set of pulleys and it's not turning the alternator fast enough.  Or, you might have an under drive crank pulley that could be turning the alternator too slow.

[motoreese]

http://www.cvfracing.com/mobile/Zoom.aspx?ProductCode=BCRL1KIT


That's the pulley system I have on it.
I believe the alternator pulley is smaller than stock.

[JB400]

That I believe, is your problem.  You have an under drive crank pulley combined with a small alternator pulley.  At idle, you're not making enough juice for your car to run.  I'd try either a larger alternator pulley or a larger crank pulley.

[c00nhunterjoe]

People are scared of holleys because they dont understand them. They are so much better then the edlebrocks.

[John_Kunkel]

Ive set the timing by specs from edlebrock. They said it requires retarding the timing a little bit.

Huh? Try advancing the initial timing a bunch to see if that helps...just as long as it doesn't ping.

[myk]

I'd replace the undersized pulleys with normal or even larger ones; if you have the stock electrical system in place, that thing just barely provided sufficient power when it was new, let alone 40+ years later, and under-driving the system isn't helping your ignition system.  Another thing that you need to address is the timing; if you have a light, preferably one with an advance/retard readout then you can set the timing where you need it.  Like John says, advance it until it pings, then see how things turn out.  What's your idle speed set at now?  I'm about 800 in neutral; you might want to try moving yours up if it's too low...

[motoreese]

I have my timing set a little below 10 degrees below top dead center. If I advance it; it won't start. I watched a tutorial on edlebrock installation the guy said the timing needed to be adjusted for the new carb. Was he wrong or did I do something wrong? It's got an electric ignition installed.
Yes the pulley system I got was a performance one...the crank shaft pulley is smaller!!! D$@N it!!
That could be the start of the the problem. She had been driving better the. Today I'm driving and everytime I slowed down it would shut off. I'd have to stick her in neutral to stay running...

[c00nhunterjoe]

http://youtu.be/Zj5kXfETBfs

Fwiw mine idles as 12-1300. Your combination determins your idle speed, not neccesarilly what you prefer it to be.

[c00nhunterjoe]

10° is off. Im running 20 initial if i recall and mine starts just fine. Granted thats a bit steep compared to most but i have a mildly odd combination and my motor likes alot of initial. Your balancer may have spun giving you a false reading.

[motoreese]

No the balancer is on, I had it off when I checked the timing chain. I was careful when putting it back together. I'm pretty sure it is that little pulley on the crank. It's just not turning everything fast enough. I probably don't have enough juice at idle because it's going too slow.

[c00nhunterjoe]

I mean the rubber on the balancer has let go and allowed it to move. If it wont start with more then 10° initial timing then somethi g is wrong. Either the balancer is spun and its not really at 10 or you have another problem.

[myk]

'OP, older engines in modern times usually means retarded timing; my initial is around 20*.  The Edelbrock guy is right in that you have to re-tune the car with the new 'carb, but the timing shouldn't matter at all....

[Paul G]

What is the voltage at the battery when idling in neutral? And idling in drive? Underdrive pulleys would create a low charge condition at idle, but a well charged battery should overcome that.

Did you check for vacuum leaks? Vacuum lines? Carb gasket? Intake gasket?   

[c00nhunterjoe]

Unless you have a dead cell thats not the problem. Ive driven my charger without an alternator several times for some distance.... it likes to shred the rear bearing after a season of high rpm passes. Ive also driven it without the belt to the parts store to test new belt lengths.

[cudaken]

I the car is dying at idle from to small of a pulley then your battery is weak. I have ran by 68 Road Runner many of times with a good battery and no alternator belt.

I have my timing set a little below 10 degrees below top dead center. If I advance it; it won't start.

Again a sign of weak battery or a weak starter. I have a MP 509 cam in the Road Runner and I set my base timing at 20 Degrees BTDC and she cranks over just fine.

I would have the battery tested just to cover all the bases on the electrical part. If the battery is bad, replaces it and play with the timing some more. If it does have a aftermarket cam, you can pretty much throw the stock timing specks out the window.

Why did you replaces the 750 Holley anyway?  That is what I run and would only install a Edelbrock if someone paid me good sizes bucks to do so! After I got the Cash, I would put the 750 Holley back on! 

Good Luck and keep us updated.

Cuda Ken

[motoreese]

First off thank you all of you for your input.
It just started dying at idle, I'm wondering if the smaller pulley on the crank is what is causing the alternator not to charge right at low rpm which in turn is now beaten the battery up. The battery is brand new from "Autozone". (Let the bashing begin!)
The reason I changed carbs is because I was told by several people and motor heads that hollers are expensive paper weights and edlebrock was the way to go...I wouldn't have otherwise.
I'm wrong I have set timing to 20 degrees but she would back fire when shut off, so I put it a little lower and now she only back fires occasionally.
Also, my rpm will be 1000 today and 1500 tomorrow. Depends on her mood. I've called her Eleanor!!

The crank pulley is smaller and water pump pulley is larger...but the crank is where it gets the power so I'm thinking I put originals back the alternator will charge better where it will stop stalling. And mess with timing more I should have it dialed in I'm hoping. Or take her it a garage...

[cudaken]

The reason I changed carbs is because I was told by several people and motor heads that hollers are expensive paper weights and Edlebrock was the way to go...I wouldn't have otherwise. 

Was the Charger dying before you removed the 750 Holley? Was it running badly? Do you still have the 750 Holley?

I'm wrong I have set timing to 20 degrees but she would back fire when shut off, so I put it a little lower and now she only back fires occasionally.

When you sat the timing, was the vacuum advances disconnected or hooked up? When she back fires, what are you doing? 

Also, my rpm will be 1000 today and 1500 tomorrow. Depends on her mood. I've called her Eleanor!!

No wonder you are having problems, Eleanor is a Mustang name!  Sorry about that, I could not help my self.  When she is running, is the idle constant or goes up and down? Are you turning on the headlight's? I think yours is a 68 or 69. Maybe a vacuum leak from the headlight doors? 

Far as the Auto Stupid battery, as good as any other stock unit. I worked for NTB and I guess 15% of ours new was junk!

I would still get the battery checked! Just because it is new does not mean it is good!

If you can post some video that would help us a lot!

Cuda Ken

[BSB67]

1300 to 600 then dies, sounds like a vacuum leak.

Or, the mechanical advance springs are too small/weak, and it pulls timing out when put into gear.

[motoreese]

Ok...update. So I'm installing the old pulleys and now my power steering pump pulley won't line up. I did fire it up and put it in gear and it idled better.haven't gotten her on the road yet. Volts did look a lot better.

Thank you again sirs, for all the in put. I have a lot to work on.

[motoreese]

Cudaken, here are your answers...
The car was dying in gear before I changed carbs, that is why I was convinces by 3 veteran muscle car mechanics to buy a different carb. They said either carter, or Edlebrock. They swore by Edlebrock that is why I bought it. Yes I still have the carb safely boxed up incase....well you never know right???
I set the timing with the vacuum advance plugged up. When I bought the car the vacuum advance was plugged already and it ran worse when it was hooked up. When she backfires is usually when I shut it off. It would give a bang as it shut off, like a second after, like she was releasing gas.
Yes sir, Eleanor is a fords name...but I'm a northern boy so a Generals name is out....maybe Gen. shwarzkopf but that's stretching it, and Christine is out of the question.

I have checked all vacuums, I replaced the intake manifold gasket as there was I leak there which I found out when checking for leaks. I haven't checked the pumps for the headlight doors.

It's like and electrical change whether hitting brakes or turn signal the stereo would reset, like I just started the car.

$$$$$$ TODAY, I installed the original pulleys, crank pulley was 5" in diameter; where my original one was 7 1/2" in diameter. When I started it up she idle smooth, stuck it in gear and she idled like a champ. I turn on headlights and she died. Started it up and turn on head lights and died again. Started again, revved it a few times idle was high so I adjusted it. Set timing like one of the gentleman mentioned and set it to 20 degrees, adjusted idle and turned on head lights but revved it before it died and she ran fine, shifted to drive and idles fine. Volts off alternator was 15 volts, and battery was at 14.50. Jumped it the car and the volts were high. I got in and started hitting head lights on and loff, brake lights, turn signals and she idles fine.
I took her for a test drive and she $hi& and git!
So as for right now she is driving fine, with head lights on, and stereo going, with a 1000watt amp.


So to all of you guys that sent advice thank you ever so much for all your expertise, I really do appreciate it more that I can say.
I just hope that Courtney doesn't get pissed at me again and run like crap!
enjoy!

[fy469rtse]

What amp is the alternator, read on hear the threads on here for wiring charging upgrades, lots of areas that can rob power as well, and that stock charging system not going to be up to the task with stero add ons draining power.
Good to read that you solved your issues so far

[Paul G]

From what you are describing, turning on headlights kills the engine, under drive pulleys, low voltage, etc. Sounds to me like you need to take a good look at the wiring and bulkhead conector. The bulk head connector is common point for failure, and fire. As well as the amp guage being overloaded, it catches on fire. Especially when that 1000 watt amp is turned on. The alternator is outputting maximum current to feed the power to the amp, and it all passes through the amp guage. The amp guage was only marginal 40 years ago. It must be bypassed to to run the equipment you have installed. And upgrade the wiring from the alternator all the way back to the battery.  

[cudaken]

I would clean the cannon plugs like Paul suggested. I wounder if the voltage regulator might be part of the problem?  Still think it should not died with the smaller pulleys. 

Well I am glad she is behaving at this point! 

If by chances the Charger is blue, what about the General Grant? 

   Cuda Ken