How many lives do you think are in our classics?

[bakerhillpins]

So lots of classics out there being restored and brought back to life. Some for the 1st and some for the Nth time. How many times do you think we can restore these cars before the sheet metal is too thin? How many rebuilds can a block take? How many lives do they have in them?

[Cooter]

With AMD and cylinder sleeves, answer.......indefinitely rebuildable.

[bakerhillpins]

So what you are saying is that someday they will all be re-bodies?

[Cooter]

So what you are saying is that someday they will all be re-bodies?

Say you buy that roach of a Hemi flood car...it will need everything replaced. You remove the VIN number and replace everything else. Even with some NOS sheet metal, you have a rebody at best. Drive it.

[bakerhillpins]

With AMD and cylinder sleeves, answer.......indefinitely rebuildable.

You really think that you can indefinitely press out and in cylinder sleeves? At some point I have to think the cast will fatigue and give. 

[Cooter]

Ok....aftermarket blocks. You are acting as if we drive these things $150k miles in 10 years, when in reality, they MIGHT see 2k in a year....

[bakerhillpins]

I'm talking long term here. We have such a limited view of time. Assuming that we can avoid doing ourselves in at some point they are just going to succumb to time.

Even at 2k a year that's only 50 to 100 more years and your into another block rebuild.

[Dino]

It all depends on the quality of the first restoration.  I have done many 2nd and 3rd restos on cars that were done right to begin with and it makes for a very nice and easy process.  Whereas a 2nd resto on a poorly done car means it's in even worse shape now than before it was restored.  Those are scary because you never know what you will find.

As long as the work is done properly you have about 3 good restorations on a car before it reaches that age where parts become hard to find or obsolete and you need to start fabricating stuff.  The metal doesn't deteriorate much and the skins are usually okay unless someone took a grinder to it to 'smoothen it out'. I've never seen a car that could not be restored, but way too many that were not worth the effort.

[wingcar]

I would think that most are only interested in the car lasting as long as they do (and perhaps long enough for their kids)...Which is at times a challenge in itself.

Plus, with the way the younger generation looks at the automobile in general...our "Dinosaurs" will be placed on display in a museum with a sign below they stating: "The main reason the planet Earth is in the condition it's in...shame on the past generations for driving cars that didn't respect the environment".

(*P.S.  Thank you Prius drivers for saving "Dinosaur Juice", so that I can drive my "environmentally unfriendly" automobile even more........LOL)

[Ghoste]

Cooter is right, indefinitely.  They may well all become rebodies in 200 years or so but I think we'll run out of fuel or end up with human controlled vehicles being banned from the  road long before then.

[fy469rtse]

Roads ghoste, we won't need no stinking roads ,

[Homerr]

Model T's, 20's, 30's cars are still around.  Maybe not as long term as the OP's question, but they may be a bellwether.

[Cooter]

After im gone, I dont care, but in another 50 years, the term 'rebody' won't be a hated word. The term "numbers matching" will mean nothing as long as that hemi R/T has a hemi.

Just like t by e Model A's of today. They are worth a lot due to the sacredness of them alone. To hell with that flathead.

[68X426]

3D manufacturing, nano-technolgy, graphine, and molecular manipulation will (eventually) keep cars going into the infinity. 

[tan top]

It all depends on the quality of the first restoration.  I have done many 2nd and 3rd restos on cars that were done right to begin with and it makes for a very nice and easy process.  Whereas a 2nd resto on a poorly done car means it's in even worse shape now than before it was restored.  Those are scary because you never know what you will find.

As long as the work is done properly you have about 3 good restorations on a car before it reaches that age where parts become hard to find or obsolete and you need to start fabricating stuff.  The metal doesn't deteriorate much and the skins are usually okay unless someone took a grinder to it to 'smoothen it out'. I've never seen a car that could not be restored, but way too many that were not worth the effort.

that's true ,

[HeavyFuel]

Along a different line of thought concerning long life:

The kind of dough that some of our cars are worth should keep them in safe hands for years to come, long after we've checked out.  There're just worth too much to sit in fields anymore.

But my sons won't get my car.  They don't show the interest, and haven't proven to be responsible....yet.

Owners that stock up on the consumable parts now, and then pass on/sell their cars to another responsible owner has a good chance of their pride and joy lasting for decades.

When the gas is gone, or rationed, or just so crappy it won't make our cars go (don't be fooled, that day IS coming)......well, I guess they all get retrofitted with new propulsion, or become big pieces of art.

[Ghoste]

I disagree partially Cooter.  Although rebodies will become so common as to not be hated anymore my experience has been that original shhet metal and orginal drivetrains always draw a premium.  Even in Model T's.

[Tilar]

When the gas is gone, or rationed, or just so crappy it won't make our cars go (don't be fooled, that day IS coming)......well, I guess they all get retrofitted with new propulsion, or become big pieces of art.

The gas may be gone one day but it will be after every single one of us are long gone. I'm guessing the tomb stones may even be hard to read. Maybe I should look at mine more often before I check out. 

[Ghoste]

Dont underestimate the crappiness part though.

[bakerhillpins]

Even when all the "natural" gas is gone there will be synthetic gas. 

I disagree partially Cooter.  Although rebodies will become so common as to not be hated anymore my experience has been that original shhet metal and orginal drivetrains always draw a premium.  Even in Model T's.

Well yes, but to my original point, will there be a time when you can no longer rebuild the original stuff? End result is the #s garage queens will be the only "original" stuff left?

[Ghoste]

No, I worked for a place that had a high end resto shop and while many times there was very little left of the car that could be called original, virtually ANY part can be made.  Restoring any car in the world is easy, you just keep pouring that magic money on the corpse until it resurrects.

[bakerhillpins]

I hesitate to say this because my original point was not to get into a "what's a rebody/original" discussion, but rather when resurrected it's no longer original. I guess it's less of a question of can you pour enough money to keep them going (yes you can) and more one of the original component can only be rebuilt/ground/media blasted so many times before you can't do it again and it's time for a replacement.

[HeavyFuel]

I get what you're driving at.

Some zombies can only be brought back to life so many times before you have to look for a new cadaver. 

[Ghoste]

Not if you have a title.

[RallyeMike]

I don't think the question matters. How many '17 REO's or Stanley Steamers can be driven with todays' cars and traffic?  Within maybe 50-75 years our classics will be reduced to unroadworthy parade vehicles unless they are upgraded to whatever the current technology is at that time. There won't be enough time to wear out sheetmetal or run out of engine blocks in those 50-75 years

In the future cars will likely pilot themselves at high speed hooked up in connected trains on the interstate. They'll cram as many vehicles on the road as possible operating them at maximum efficiency and safety. Technology will rule. There will be no place for a driver or a 69 Charger except on Main Street 4th of July.

[Ponch ®]

So what you are saying is that someday they will all be re-bodies?

Say you buy that roach of a Hemi flood car...it will need everything replaced. You remove the VIN number and replace everything else. Even with some NOS sheet metal, you have a rebody at best. Drive it.

    "The ship wherein Theseus and the youth of Athens returned from Crete had thirty oars, and was preserved by the Athenians down even to the time of Demetrius Phalereus, for they took away the old planks as they decayed, putting in new and stronger timber in their place, in so much that this ship became a standing example among the philosophers, for the logical question of things that grow; one side holding that the ship remained the same, and the other contending that it was not the same."
    —Plutarch, Theseus[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

[Ghoste]

Or Grandad's axe. 

[1974dodgecharger]

Ok....aftermarket blocks. You are acting as if we drive these things $150k miles in 10 years, when in reality, they MIGHT see 2k in a year....

I have 2k plus from the last 3 months now....she goes down in summer well she is down now for a brake job.

[don duick]

maybe our 1960 s vehicles will follow the hotrodders trend of today. fibreglass bodies with any combination of parts from different vehicles. How many fords fron the 40 s have chev engines? In 50 years time How about a 69 charger made of fibreglass with the current powerplant from GM if they still exist.

[Cooter]

I disagree partially Cooter.  Although rebodies will become so common as to not be hated anymore my experience has been that original shhet metal and orginal drivetrains always draw a premium.  Even in Model T's.

Buying public says different. Take a 1932 highboy. All original, might bring $12k.
hot rodded with spray on rust and Maltese crosses, slammed on the ground, and 1950's Caddy engine brings $20k  plus.

[Ghoste]

I think that would highly depend on who's in the room because Ive seen the exact opposite scenario.  And take the Model T, get one that boogered up with with aftermarket features and put it beside an unmolested one and make sure they are promoted to the right people and see which brings money.
I'd be tempted to call the 32 Ford an anomoly anyway.  Well maybe not an anomaly but a class within itself since its become a quintessential hot rod base.  Because in spite of my earlier statement, which I stand by, I've also seen glass bodied highboys with Ididit's and 350 Chev's and all the rest go waaaaaay beyond that 20k mark.
An interesting discussion.  I still believe unmolested will always bring a premium and if you are talking about a stock style restoration, not a fad of the moment rat rod or Coddington style Ridler contender, just a nicely redone car and set it beside a survivor?   Well I know which one I'd pay extra for.

[Cooter]

Gas Monkey idiots just bought one for $7500. All original, wooden wheels and All.

[Ghoste]

What can I say then?  It isn't as if I worked in the auction business or anything I just go by what my own experiences have been.

[Cooter]

Of course, that's not to say that he didn't run up on the one single dumbass selling cheap, but I think it's like you said Shawn, some buyers might pay more for stock, some might not. It just amazes me how much the 30-40's stuff sells for.

I got a bit of nervousness when attempting to get a title for this 37'.
Truck came outta New York. I sent off the required paperwork to the local DUMB and was informed unless I had some sort of old paperwork on it, I was screwed. New York state didn't begin with titles until 1972 so I was looking into selling it off for parts for a split second. Then, I had to pull and end run around DMV by having a buddy "with a guy" to get the title.

Even at selling for parts, I still might have come out good. Just woulda sucked.

[Ghoste]

There are trends to it all as well and no matter what anyone on reality shows or auction houses or internet forums may claim, there isn't a single one of us has that crystal ball.

[Mike DC]

 
I doubt there will be many people still wanting these cars in another 50 years. 

Gasoline will never "run out" in the geologic sense, although it may get banned or something eventually.  The oil supply is limited by how much we want to pay for it. 

[Ghoste]

But who knows really?  How do you know Duesenbergs won't fall out of favor with the garage art mega wealthy and the 69 Charger won't become the Duesenberg SJ of 2064?  Or maybe it will be the Gremlin.  You can make a guess Mike but that is all it is, a guess.

[Mike DC]

  
 
Yeah but how many people actually want Deusenbergs today?  Not many.  

Plenty of people would respect a Deusy but that's not the same thing as wanting one.  The uber-rich want them but there aren't many of them to want which drives the value & prestige up.  There will probably be a lot more old Chargers still left in a few more decades at this rate.  Even at $25-50k it's still very much a working/middle class collector car.


1950s cars have lost a ton of value since that generation began to pass on.  It's not that the rest of us don't respect, or even like, 1950s cars - but most of us only have enough resources for 1 or 2 fun-cars and those aren't at the top of our lists.  

I think plenty of people might still respect a '69 Charger in 50 years but will they have it at the top of their want list?  

[Ghoste]

Its all still just a guess.

[HeavyFuel]

I'm thankful that we're in the position to enjoy these cars.

When I start to get down about things, I try to remind myself that we were born in the 'sweet spot' of man's history on earth.  At least one of them.  I'd hate to have to go through what ordinary people had to endure just a half a century ago or more.  And who knows what the future holds?

In my lifetime, things were/are advanced enough to make life easier, but not so much that it's 'out there' sci-fi, although that is getting closer.

[Brock Lee]

Everything has a beginning and an ending. There will be a time, for whatever reason there will not be a single Charger left. None of us will be around to see it, so who cares?

[1974dodgecharger]

this goes back in circle again that the folks who had these cars in the 60s and early 70s are getting up there in age and eventually their 2nd generation offspring will they like it or not etc...its those folks that will determine the value and rebuilding of these cars not us who will be 6ft deep eventually.