Burned on rebuilt 440 purchase, need advise on direction now

[8WHEELER]

I bought a date code correct 68 440 HP engine off ebay two years ago. YES a big mistake made, please do not buy from this seller. He had nothing
bad said about him when I bought my engine.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Plymouth-Dodge-Mopar-1968-D-440-HP-Complete-Engine-NEW-REBUILD-WITH-EXHAUST/161204292356?rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D261%26meid%3D4279947382790742207%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D1088%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D161200376991%26


So it takes him just over three months to get the engine to me. So evan if I needed to give him negative feeback, it was not possible.
Then I had to wait another year before the paint on the car was done, to install the engine and break it in.
I did talk to Chris many times before pulling the trigger. He came across as a completely honest person, boy what a joke
The engine was $4250.00 two years ago when I got mine, not sure why the huge increase in price, every spec in his add
is exactly the same.

OK, fast forward, fired the engine last summer for the first time. I noticed the engine was knocking, sounding like piston slap.
Broke in the cam, engine still making the same noise, also now has lifter noise ''sounding like three colasped lifters'' about
every third time you would start it. So at this time I had a big stomach ache, knowing I was going to have to pull this brand
new engine, and it had been so long the seller would never cover shit, I was right, he will not reply to calls or emails through
ebay. I have a total of 50 mile on this engine.

So engine is out, one crank journal is bad, but the main problem being the noise is the bore job, I have 4 1/2 thousands clearance
from these new pistons to bore. It has been a long time since I built an engine I have to admit, but I thought two thousands was
the max of clearance you would want.

These are 30 over KB pistons I have never seen before, nor do I have any knowledge about. So I am now told the engine needs to go
strait to 60 over, because the fresh 30 over bore was taken to far out. So my question is, is there any pistons that I can
use that will fill more of the hole? We used to be able to go 40 over, but nobody wants to do that anymore, they
want to go strait to 60 over, and this car will only be driven on the street to car shows in my hands, and I have heard
to many stories of cooling problems doing that stop light to stop like, I will be using a stock rad, but with high flow cores.

So I also need a new cam, and I am looking for the best cam, putting out the best power with the rest of the engine
being to stock specs, with 9.7 to 10 to one compression. I have always run the mopar 484 284 cam I'm my red charger
since 1980, and I do love the lope, but I need at least 16 pounds of vacuum for my brakes, I am not installing a brake
pump on this car as well. I know there are lots of new cam choices out there, much better power and more than 10 pounds
of vacuum than my good old style 484 284 cam, so teach the old dog new tricks please   , I want a sweet street cam, with
as much power as I can get with my stock specs.

Need advise

Thanks Dan

[8WHEELER]

It is amazing to me the lies in the add and told to me regarding this engine. I also sent back 10 parts that were the wrong parts
for a 68 engine, like the 70 water pump, broken RH HP manifold on and on. All the while he promissed me the correct parts, and
seeming very nice. After sending all the wrong and broken parts back to him, he would not contact me back to save his life.
So he evan has all those parts still.

There are so many things wrong its hard to remember them all. After tearing down the engine, some of the rod bolts just
fell out of the rods, they were the original bolts, in the add it says NEW ARP ROD BOLTS... BS

Dan

[1974dodgecharger]

Wow, sorry to hear man.  I was reqding it about piston slap I was about to say I think I have that on a first start then goes away after warm up but it seems u got it after war. Up.

[80fbody]

They don't make many 60 over pistons for 440's anymore. I have one under the bench thats 60 over & couldn't find a reasonable piston for it. Usually it's 55 over these days. Best to get your pistons first as they vary quite a bit in their clearance needs. CNC Motorsports has good prices & a nice site for checking piston options.

Bore @ 55 over is 4.375"
Stroke is 3.75"
Rod is 6.768"

[cdr]

.

[firefighter3931]

Hey Dan, sorry to hear about your issues. 

The KB Hyper pistons need to be installed with .002 piston clearance....very little growth with those pistons so clearance needs to remain tighter than a conventional forged slug. The clearance you identified above would be fine with a forged piston. 

KB makes a very nice forged piston in .040 overbore and it is available with the stock piston pin (1.09) dimension. I'm with ya on the overbore ; as little as possible is best to maintain structural integrity.

As for the cam ; that will depend on what you're planning to run for exhaust....headers or manifolds ?



Ron

[ACUDANUT]

Damn, sorry about you getting screwed. You could have bought a core engine and had it built for less than that.

[8WHEELER]

Hey Dan, sorry to hear about your issues. 

The KB Hyper pistons need to be installed with .002 piston clearance....very little growth with those pistons so clearance needs to remain tighter than a conventional forged slug. The clearance you identified above would be fine with a forged piston. 

KB makes a very nice forged piston in .040 overbore and it is available with the stock piston pin (1.09) dimension. I'm with ya on the overbore ; as little as possible is best to maintain structural integrity.

As for the cam ; that will depend on what you're planning to run for exhaust....headers or manifolds ?



Ron

Thank guys

I admit, I did not no what this piston is, so its not a forged piston? as his ebay add says, and I have only ever dealt with forged pistons
in the engines I have built.

I still can't find a shop that will do a 40 over bore, I agree, buy the pistons first, that is the only way to go. I need to make sure
that I have to bore again, if another forged piston will work with this bore, I would be a happy man, but I would need a piston
to show a shop.

Ron, I am staying with manifolds on this car, it is a bone stock car show only car, but I want a healthy cam, that is why
I wanted your in put my friend   

Dan

[RECHRGD]

Sorry to hear this Dan...  Seems like you can't trust anyone or anything these days.  Sucks, but know you'll end up with what you want.

[BSB67]

Usually the clearance is ground into the piston.  So it is possible that even with a forged piston needing .004 to .005" clearance, you will still be too loose by the 0.0025".  The few shop owners on here would know which brands might work.

Bottom line is this, you will need to take the block to a reliable machine shop, check every bore for round, straight, and size.  If the holes are fine, order a piston to fit and get 0.035" over rings and file fit them.  If the holes need straightened out for what ever reason, do the same thing.  Measure the final hole size and order pistons to fit.  If it ends up being near 0.040 over, 40 and 45 over rings are available too.  Diamond Racing Piston will do this for you.

http://www.diamondracing.net/

Oh ya, very nice looking car.  I use to have a B5 68 with a black vinyl top.

[b5blue]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Speed-Pro-TRW-Dodge-Plymouth-Chrysler-440-Forged-Flat-Top-Press-Fit-Pistons-4bbl-/330872601861
Go .060 over and don't look back. I had to go there my bores needed it to be true. This ad lists 30,40 and 60 if you scroll down. You need to have the bore checked very carefully before ordering any pistons, and have the pistons before the bore is done! 
Sorry to hear how badly you were screwed! 

[ACUDANUT]

They don't make many 60 over pistons for 440's anymore. I have one under the bench thats 60 over & couldn't find a reasonable piston for it. Usually it's 55 over these days. Best to get your pistons first as they vary quite a bit in their clearance needs. CNC Motorsports has good prices & a nice site for checking piston options.

Bore @ 55 over is 4.375"
Stroke is 3.75"
Rod is 6.768"

Really ?

[stuubi]

Just sharing some thougth's..I'm from Europe so i'm sorry for bad typing and language.

Firs't:I'm sorry for your bad luck.I feel bad for this kind of "dumbass-sellers" because they give bad name to all engine seller'.I hope that at least you'll find really good deal's on part's.

Seccond:If you are planning to run 440 with stock manifold's,sound to me that it ain't gonna spinn really up?So if this true,and you want to use hyd tappet cam,i wouldn't worry about strength of the block.
Good quality fastener's,get everything to proper clearanses,Don't over torque anything.5 pound's short is better than 10 pound's over.

Also re-check main-and rod clearance,balance her(some say that balancing is not important unless you go to 6000rpm past.I think it's absolut neccessary if YOU wan't it).It's your engine.
Don't make same mistakes as previous owner by just putting it together and not looking back.

I'm new with Mopars,but if i have understanded correctly,there are not any weak cast Mopar B or RB block's?Can  B/RB go to .060 over easily?
If .060 pistons are easy to find for you,go for it.If you ain't gonna spin her more than 5500rpm,is it gonna break because of overboring the block to 060?

I'm sorry if i have stepped to any toes with this commen't,i don't by all mean's try to shine,just sharing some thougt's.

Pete

[firefighter3931]

Ron, I am staying with manifolds on this car, it is a bone stock car show only car, but I want a healthy cam, that is why
I wanted your in put my friend   

Dan

Dan,

The HDP282 (32243) is an excellent choice for a street type build 440 with stock heads and restrictive exhaust. It'll make lots of manifold vacuum for power brakes and has a nice lope at idle. 

http://www.crower.com/index.php/searchresults/

I'd recommend using a set of the Johnson hy-lift hyd lifters as well to compliment the new cam 

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,95605.0.html



Ron

[Challenger340]

IMO, less is better than more in Bores... but certainly nothing wrong with going .060 if you have to.

But if you can stay at .040" over, by all means do so, far easier to just hone to .040 from the existing .030 than to start boring to .060 ?

ICON Forged Piston & Ring Kit at .040"..... IC9952-040KTM.... available at Summit. 9.7:1 on 90 CC Head.

HOLY TYPO !!
Apologies it is ICON 995THREE... not 2.

[8WHEELER]

Ron, I am staying with manifolds on this car, it is a bone stock car show only car, but I want a healthy cam, that is why
I wanted your in put my friend   

Dan

Dan,

The HDP282 (32243) is an excellent choice for a street type build 440 with stock heads and restrictive exhaust. It'll make lots of manifold vacuum for power brakes and has a nice lope at idle. 

http://www.crower.com/index.php/searchresults/

I'd recommend using a set of the Johnson hy-lift hyd lifters as well to compliment the new cam 

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,95605.0.html



Ron

Thanks Ron
Sounds like a good grind, the proper vacuum is very important for me, you might remember I can't use my legs, so I
use hand controls, evan though my upper body is still pretty strong, its nothing compared to the good old leg strength.
And you being a past lineman as I was, know full well how strong our legs got   

Is there a brand and series piston you would recommend with this combo? I am pretty over whelmed on my choices.....
I am still shooting for 9.7 to 10 to 1 compression ratio with the 906 heads.

Dan

[8WHEELER]

Usually the clearance is ground into the piston.  So it is possible that even with a forged piston needing .004 to .005" clearance, you will still be too loose by the 0.0025".  The few shop owners on here would know which brands might work.

Bottom line is this, you will need to take the block to a reliable machine shop, check every bore for round, straight, and size.  If the holes are fine, order a piston to fit and get 0.035" over rings and file fit them.  If the holes need straightened out for what ever reason, do the same thing.  Measure the final hole size and order pistons to fit.  If it ends up being near 0.040 over, 40 and 45 over rings are available too.  Diamond Racing Piston will do this for you.

http://www.diamondracing.net/

Oh ya, very nice looking car.  I use to have a B5 68 with a black vinyl top.

Thanks for the input, there are several options I have here, just want to stay away from the 60 over, mostly the over heating issue.
I know all don't have the problem, but I have heard it enough times to try and stay away from it if possible.

Dan

[70-500-SE-EXPORT]

How is that crook still on on eBay peddling his sloppy rebuilds for a few thousand more than you paid? He only has one negative fb. I would notify eBay and tell them your story maybe they can do something to stop him from selling his garbage engines with no warranties and prevent another person from getting ripped off. There is a 69 charger for sale in CA on eBay right now with one of his motors included with the car.

As far as a cam I have the mopar performance "roadrunner" cam and I love it. It is advertised to have the closest lift and duration to the 375hp magnum and 383 roadrunner factory cam as you can get. I have great vacuum and the powerband is excellent. I'm using KB hyper pistons with a small dome. They are 10.5 compression and I have no detonation with 906 heads.

[1974dodgecharger]

Sorry to hear this Dan...  Seems like you can't trust anyone or anything these days.  Sucks, but know you'll end up with what you want.

U could trust Ron to build ya an engine and I'm sure he would for the right price.

[firefighter3931]

Thanks Ron
Sounds like a good grind, the proper vacuum is very important for me, you might remember I can't use my legs, so I
use hand controls, evan though my upper body is still pretty strong, its nothing compared to the good old leg strength.
And you being a past lineman as I was, know full well how strong our legs got   

Is there a brand and series piston you would recommend with this combo? I am pretty over whelmed on my choices.....
I am still shooting for 9.7 to 10 to 1 compression ratio with the 906 heads.

Dan

Hey Dan,

No worries buddy.....that cam will make lots of vacuum. Last one we used in a very similar build to yours made a solid 15in at idle 

I like the split pattern with extra lift/duration on the exhaust which really helps the engine to exhale with the weak ex port on an unported factory head. 


The pistons Bob suggested are what I was talking about in my previous post 

IMO, less is better than more in Bores... but certainly nothing wrong with going .060 if you have to.

But if you can stay at .040" over, by all means do so, far easier to just hone to .040 from the existing .030 than to start boring to .060 ?

ICON Forged Piston & Ring Kit at .040"..... IC9952-040KTM.... available at Summit. 9.7:1 on 90 CC Head.

How about them Hawks ? This should be their year to get it done ! 



Ron

[8WHEELER]

IMO, less is better than more in Bores... but certainly nothing wrong with going .060 if you have to.

But if you can stay at .040" over, by all means do so, far easier to just hone to .040 from the existing .030 than to start boring to .060 ?

ICON Forged Piston & Ring Kit at .040"..... IC9952-040KTM.... available at Summit. 9.7:1 on 90 CC Head.

Thanks for the help Bob, lifters are ordered as well as pistons you recommended, and I drooped your name with Paul, nice guy.

Cam and several other parts from Summit are on there way, can't wait to make a correct motor, with much better parts   

Dan

[8WHEELER]

Thanks Ron
Sounds like a good grind, the proper vacuum is very important for me, you might remember I can't use my legs, so I
use hand controls, evan though my upper body is still pretty strong, its nothing compared to the good old leg strength.
And you being a past lineman as I was, know full well how strong our legs got  

Is there a brand and series piston you would recommend with this combo? I am pretty over whelmed on my choices.....
I am still shooting for 9.7 to 10 to 1 compression ratio with the 906 heads.

Dan

Hey Dan,

No worries buddy.....that cam will make lots of vacuum. Last one we used in a very similar build to yours made a solid 15in at idle  

I like the split pattern with extra lift/duration on the exhaust which really helps the engine to exhale with the weak ex port on an unported factory head.  


The pistons Bob suggested are what I was talking about in my previous post  

IMO, less is better than more in Bores... but certainly nothing wrong with going .060 if you have to.

But if you can stay at .040" over, by all means do so, far easier to just hone to .040 from the existing .030 than to start boring to .060 ?

ICON Forged Piston & Ring Kit at .040"..... IC9952-040KTM.... available at Summit. 9.7:1 on 90 CC Head.

How about them Hawks ? This should be their year to get it done !  



Ron

Thanks Ron for the advice, I ordered two of those cams, they look like a good grind combo    so I got two sets of lifters as well.
I might take the RV bump stick out of my wife's charger, and wake her engine up, it has a little lump when cold, then when worm it just sounds
like a slight miss, kind of bugs me, but it runs great, with fantastic mileage actually, all stock original 68 440 magnum never evan had the heads off  

Now just waiting a week for parts, oh yeah, I found a shop willing to bore 40 over   , still don't understand there phobias, and going strait to 60.


GO HAWKS, we have a good offensive line, but Wilson has to scramble more than I would like to see, at least he is pretty good at it  

If our D can hold down Paytons numbers, we do have a chance, he does scare me, he thinks our pre season game with them means nothing  
And there is very little talk about it, but he has done very well against all the other teams since, we will see.



Dan

[ACUDANUT]

How is that crook still on on eBay peddling his sloppy rebuilds for a few thousand more than you paid? He only has one negative fb. I would notify eBay and tell them your story maybe they can do something to stop him from selling his garbage engines with no warranties and prevent another person from getting ripped off. There is a 69 charger for sale in CA on eBay right now with one of his motors included with the car.

As far as a cam I have the mopar performance "roadrunner" cam and I love it. It is advertised to have the closest lift and duration to the 375hp magnum and 383 roadrunner factory cam as you can get. I have great vacuum and the powerband is excellent. I'm using KB hyper pistons with a small dome. They are 10.5 compression and I have no detonation with 906 heads.

On Greed Bay, you cannot leave negative feedback anymore.

[8WHEELER]

How is that crook still on on eBay peddling his sloppy rebuilds for a few thousand more than you paid? He only has one negative fb. I would notify eBay and tell them your story maybe they can do something to stop him from selling his garbage engines with no warranties and prevent another person from getting ripped off. There is a 69 charger for sale in CA on eBay right now with one of his motors included with the car.

As far as a cam I have the mopar performance "roadrunner" cam and I love it. It is advertised to have the closest lift and duration to the 375hp magnum and 383 roadrunner factory cam as you can get. I have great vacuum and the powerband is excellent. I'm using KB hyper pistons with a small dome. They are 10.5 compression and I have no detonation with 906 heads.

On Greed Bay, you cannot leave negative feedback anymore.

I new they stopped sellers from leaving negative feedback, buy buyers still can right?

[firefighter3931]

GO HAWKS, we have a good offensive line, but Wilson has to scramble more than I would like to see, at least he is pretty good at it  

If our D can hold down Paytons numbers, we do have a chance, he does scare me, he thinks our pre season game with them means nothing  
And there is very little talk about it, but he has done very well against all the other teams since, we will see.

Dan

Ya, Wilson is very mobile and has a way of getting away from pressure and extending the play. I really like his poise and low key approach 

Manning is great, no doubt but he can be rattled. Dallas almost beat them so the Denver Defence can be scored upon. And lets face it, the Seattle D is head and shoulders above Dallas. 

I'm predicting Seattle will try to control the clock to keep Manning off the field. They Have a Beast in Lynch who is almost impossible to tackle 1 on 1. They'll run the ball to control the clock and eat time. That will limit Manning's opportunities.

On Defense, the Hawks will send lots of pressure and blitz the hell out of Manning who is slow. If he can't dump the ball quickly he'll be in for a long day. Seattle has the defensive backfield to cover 1 on 1 so this gives them lots of options in the pass rush dept.

It'll be an interesting game to watch for sure....


Ron