68. Charger with 3 speed

[moparsal]

Just picked up a 68 charger with a 3 speed 318 column shift, there's no fender tag to run numbers,
Tried to find info in my red book ,nothing , guy said it's all original , I've had a 3 speed 318 floor shift,
There no power brake or steering or a.c.
Also the book said any 68 hemi 4 speed car built after June 1. 1968 were built with exposed headlights,flush grill
And chrome reveal windshield moldings.
Any one have any info on either one of these cars?
Thanks,
Sal in n.y.

[Troy]

The book is wrong.

Interesting about the column shift. There are very few 3-speed 68 Chargers and I always assumed they were floor shift. I have not seen one in person that I can recall.

That comment about the flush grill, exposed headlights, and A pillar mouldings is a in reference to the 1969 Charger 500. I believe that there was a factory memo stating that they would all be equipped with a Hemi (to meet homologation rules) but that wasn't the case. They would have been based on a Charger R/T but that requirement somehow got turned around.

Troy

[Ghoste]

I don't think I've seen any 3 speed 68 or 69 Chargers that WEREN'T column shift. (had one of the 69 ones once)

[Chad L. Magee]

You will not find production numbers on 1968 Dodge Chargers with the 318 and three on the tree manual transmission.  That data was lost years ago (likely in the fire).  However, I can tell you that probably less than 100 Chargers were built that way.  There may be 15 to 25 of them left in any condition, but that is my best guess.  It is more common to find 1968 Chargers with the /6 and that transmission than with the 318.  It is a rare Charger that should be restored by someone who cares about the numbers.... 

The reason why I know this information is because I used to own one.  Mine was yellow, black vinyl top and gold interior.  It was sitting since 1975 (still had the 1975 tag on it) out in a farm field.  The rear quarters, floors and some of the top was holey with rust.  Cows had rubbed up and down on the sides of the car over the years, so it was pretty dented in places.  But, the grill was almost as mint as I have ever found them.  (The guy I bought it from purchased it in a group of cars as a package deal.  He was after the 1958 Chevy Impala convertible (rough) project that was a 348 tri carb, 4-speed car.  The third car in the group was a baby blue 1955 Ford Thunderbird.)  When I bought the 1968 318 three on the tree Charger, the entire interior was missing, as was the transmission.  I registered it with TDC and Wayne clued me into how rare they are.  I wanted to keep it, but after grad school, I had to make painful decisions about thinning the herd at that time due to $ and storage issues.  It just was not oddball enough to become a keeper in my collection of many projects, so I traded it off to a better home....

[Chad L. Magee]

Just picked up a 68 charger with a 3 speed 318 column shift, there's no fender tag to run numbers,
Tried to find info in my red book ,nothing , guy said it's all original , I've had a 3 speed 318 floor shift,
There no power brake or steering or a.c.
Also the book said any 68 hemi 4 speed car built after June 1. 1968 were built with exposed headlights,flush grill
And chrome reveal windshield moldings.
Any one have any info on either one of these cars?
Thanks,
Sal in n.y.

Sal - I think the reference to the data on the hemi 4-speed Chargers was referencing the Charger 500 models.  That makes sense with the exposed headlights, flush grill (from a coronet 500) and the chrome reveal windshield moldings, all part of the aerodynamic 500 package (including the rear window plug).  Granted, not all 1969 Charger 500 models were hemi cars, most were 440-4bbls.  They were built as 1969 model year Chargers, but were actually built during the last parts of the 1968 model year.  These were the ones first used in NASCAR, that became the basis for the Daytonas to come later on in the production year.  I know that there are members who have far more knowledge in the winged car areas, so I will let them chime in if I am incorrect on this assumption on my part....

[Ghoste]

Yes, and Troy was correct in that the first factory literature coming out of Chrysler regarding the 500 stated they would all be Hemi powered but that changed by the time of actual production.

[A383Wing]

GG's book says there are only 3 of the 1968 318-3spd manual trans cars known to exist......but he's been known to be wrong before

[Chad L. Magee]

Yes, and Troy was correct in that the first factory literature coming out of Chrysler regarding the 500 stated they would all be Hemi powered but that changed by the time of actual production.

Thanks for the reply, I totally missed Troy's post above on the 500 information.  My bad. ...

[Chad L. Magee]

GG's book says there are only 3 of the 1968 318-3spd manual trans cars known to exist......but he's been known to be wrong before

I can tell you GG is off on it, unless you only count the ones GG knows about.  If that is the case, GG may be technically correct, but it is not very accurate calculation of them existing.  TDC knew about more of them than that GG amount at the time I traded my car off (early 2009), but I do not have the letter handy right now to list the specific details.  The letter Wayne sent to me included my car into the known TDC total.  I even talked to a fellow Charger owner up in South Dakota that had bought two of them in 2008 and I clued him into what he had.  Those were cars that were not in the TDC at the time and very unlikely known by GG at the time either....

[ws23rt]

GG's book says there are only 3 of the 1968 318-3spd manual trans cars known to exist......but he's been known to be wrong before

I like the fact that the records were lost and that only 3 are known (by GG).  It adds some fun and adventure to the hobby.

So will there be a day when a 318 3 on the tree will bring hemi money?   Rare does have a funny affect on some.

[fy469rtse]

     pictures please ,
its an unwritten requirement to this site , good condition , low option car read blank canvas you get to build it how you want

[Ghoste]

Bring Hemi money?  No, they might be rare but they lack the Hemi mystique.

[A383Wing]

Bring Hemi money?  No, they might be rare but they lack the Hemi mystique.

but restored as original, put that 3spd car next to a Hemi car and I bet the little 318 car will get more looks....even more if it's a slant six car

[Ghoste]

I don't know.  It might get more comments but stop every one of thsoe guys raving about and ask them which of the two they want to own.

[ws23rt]

Hemi has a mystique that always draws attention.

When I am walking the rows at a car show my eyes tend to glaze over a bit at one after another nicely optioned muscle car.  But when something odd catches my eye I tend to dwell on it. And I see many other do the same thing.

I've been into motorcycles since age 14 and Harley's haven't been part of my world because every one else has one.  I like something different.

If by the the remotest chance a 383 or 440 were documented to be a 3sp car to me it would be gold.

The fact that 3sp's are very rare is a source of good fun.  So if a floor shift 3sp car were to be found?  Hmmm

So owning something for resale is not the same as owning something for the fun factor. That is why many scratch their heads at some of the things we want.

[A383Wing]

I don't know.  It might get more comments but stop every one of thsoe guys raving about and ask them which of the two they want to own.

I know which one I would own of the two....

not the Hemi

[moparsal]

The only thing is the fender tag is missing, what other way is there to document ?
No build sheet ether , still has the peddles , column & buddy seat brackets ,
I have a guy looking to buy & making it a hemi clone,
Thanks guys  for all the input,
Sal

[A383Wing]

I say let him find something else and make a clone out of that...granted, this car will never bring the money, but you would have something unique to show

my opinion

[dyslexic teddybear]

I say let him find something else and make a clone out of that...granted, this car will never bring the money, but you would have something unique to show

my opinion

My opinion also. Just another Hemi clone doesn't appeal to me like it once did. Money doesn't mean anything to me in the sense I wouldn't be doing it to make money, I know you can't get out of it what you put in.....so no worries about it's worth.

I've have always liked the unique and different, as I get older I like them even more. I have other ideas on something to slide a hemi into.....and I think it'd be a blast to drive a three/tree car around.

[Ghoste]

I don't know.  It might get more comments but stop every one of those guys raving about and ask them which of the two they want to own.

I know which one I would own of the two....

not the Hemi

If you had your choice between the two, you would take the 318 car?  Even if they were free?
More power to you Bryan, I predict you would get more comments at the show but be part an extraordinarily tiny group. 

[Chad L. Magee]

Charger owners are just as varied as their cars.  Some want power, power, Power! (ie. Hemi)  Some just want to blend into a group.  Some want to stand out in one way or another.  This car falls into the last group...

The key to all of this is that the Charger in question qualifies as an "oddball", one so querky that people will stop and look at it eventhough it does not have a hemi in it.  Attention at car shows is part of the game.  If your car can attract more attention (in a good way) than other cars, it can help it stand out among the sea of other cars and may lead to a slight avantage (if all else is equal) in the general population judging contests.  At the Mopar nationals, that car would probably do well because it would be a car many would   when looking at it, as they have never seen one like it.  Hey, I had someone pull out a GG white book on my 1970 Charger /6 three on the tree manual (that I took to a local rod run), they just could not believe that they actually were produced from the factory that way.  That is part of the fun of showing these cars....

If you are just considering the value aspects between a Hemi Charger of that year and this car, the Hemi wins every time.  However, someday I think the querky ones will come into their own.  They may not ever be as valuable as a 426 Hemi Charger, but they will be more like an RT in value someday.  I feel that it deserves to be documented as what it is (photos) and restored back to original by someone, but that is just my opinion....  

[Ghoste]

I totally agree with that Chad and I'm glad it's that way.  My point was that even though the one may draw more comments for its oddity, the other is more desirable.  If they were both the same price I say far far far more would choose the Hemi.  Thats why the incredibly more expensive Hemi outsold the 318 three speed manual trans car in the first place.  And thats why the Hemi is grotesquely more money than any 318 Charger today.
Just my opinion though.

[A383Wing]

I don't know.  It might get more comments but stop every one of those guys raving about and ask them which of the two they want to own.

I know which one I would own of the two....

not the Hemi

If you had your choice between the two, you would take the 318 car?  Even if they were free?
More power to you Bryan, I predict you would get more comments at the show but be part an extraordinarily tiny group.  

yes, and already am part of a tiny group here

[dyslexic teddybear]

Takes a special breed to stand against the tide and go for the odd and unique.


Seriously, 20 years ago I would not had believed that hemis could be so commonplace[relatively] that anyone would think "just another hemi clone".

Value-of course the hemi outdoes, but if you don't plan to sell.....to me it's not a big factor.

At a small local show last August, a 73 Barracuda with a hemi, got almost no attention. People gave it a glance and walked by. Just another hemi clone.

A friend of a friends J10 Jeep pickup, restored to stock 4X4.....got 10x the attention it seemed. Seen similar at bigger shows too.....maybe we are getting bit jaded......

It's not that I don't want a hemi clone, I do....but I wouldn't sacrifice something unique to do it.

[Ghoste]

So if you weren't planning to sell and they were both offered to you at the same price, maybe even free, which one would you pick?

[dyslexic teddybear]

So if you weren't planning to sell and they were both offered to you at the same price, maybe even free, which one would you pick?

You realize that sounds like a Nigerian scam don't you? 

Seriously......if you put it in a better, maybe more......"realistic"......scenario, and I can't imagine this is very realistic to begin with.....

Say you win a raffle.......and the prize is your choice= A hemi clone needing a lotta work and 318/3 speed needing little work......

I'm one of the few that would take the 318/3.

I can slide a hemi into nearly any Mopar and be extremely happy. I would also be extremely happy to have a 318/3 Charger. I know it would be a blast to drive.

I take your point.......and certainly agree the hemi clone would be VERY desirable. But again, I wouldn't sacrifice a unique Charger to do it.

[Ghoste]

Hahaha, it does but no my question means all things being equal but the engine.  Thats it, everything else about the two cars are the same, the only condition is you can't make the choice based on future resale.  Your only deciding factor between the two is the engine.
Hemi or 318?

[dyslexic teddybear]

Hemi, of course.

Major HP junkie here.....did anyone really expect anything else?

But......as soon as I found out the hemi clone Charger was a 318/3 speed.....I'd be looking for parts to put it back.....and I'd slide the hemi into something else and enjoy both.

[Ghoste]

But of course the reverse if you found out the 318 car was a factory Hemi?

[ACUDANUT]

SAL, do you even own a Charger.  One your not trying to flip ?

[dyslexic teddybear]

But of course the reverse if you found out the 318 car was a factory Hemi?

Now that's an interesting thought.......

I admit I have a strange sense of humor.....but.....I don't think I could resist showing it for a while.....just to see the look on peoples face when they realize I had a 318 in a hemicar.

And when I tell them I'm leaving it there for the fuel mileage.

And that I wouldn't sell it.

Especially to a flipper.

[A383Wing]

nobody would probably think to look twice at a 318 car with a manual on the column unless it was pointed out somewhere in the cars info either on the hood or windshield.

Now on the other hand...if it was a slant six car with column manual trans...I would not even post anything about the car and just watch how many would notice the unusual combination.

Call me weird I guess.....I would take the column shift Charger over the Hemi car any day....Hemi cars are all over up here and basically look the same....and every year we see the same ones at shows

Hemi's may be the mother-load engine...but it really does nothing for me

[Homerr]

http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/dealerships/1968DealershipDataBook-03.shtml

[Chad L. Magee]

The interesting part is that if you look at the literature posted above, it lists only the 318 as the available engine for that transmission (three on the tree manual).  However, /6 Chargers with the three on the tree manual were made that year.  Remember, a 318 was the standard engine for Chargers in 1968.  The people who ordered them requested a engine demotion that did not force a required change in the transmission.  Most of the Charger literature at that time was about the V8 engines with not much on the /6 stuff (that was for the 4-door granny cars of other models).  How strange the salesperson must have thought as a buyer dropped the engine down from a V8 to /6, with no financial gain in the process, other than future gas milage....

[moparsal]

Nice job on the info guys, thank you.
Shawn , your charger registry inbox is full, tried to p.m. You & failed,
I'm not going to restore any more cars, if someone want to make me an offer,
Sal

[Ghoste]

That literature is printed before production and doesn't always reflect what actually happened.  99% of the time its accurate but the little discrepancies do pop up from time to time.

[moparsal]

O.k. Does anybody know how many where made?
Ghoste, your inbox is full , can't send P.M.
Sal

[Chad L. Magee]

O.k. Does anybody know how many where made?
Ghoste, your inbox is full , can't send P.M.
Sal

Sal - That specific information is lost to time (most likely in the great fire) if it was tracked at all.  The best guess estimate is between 50 to 150 of them were made that year.  Reguardless, it is a rare oddball Charger.  Please submit the information that you do have on it to TDC as Wayne would love to keep track of the ones that are left.  It does not cost anything to do so....

[Ghoste]

As stated, for that year the information just doesn't seem to exist.  GG has three that he knows of for that year but admits he has no production records.  For 69 there are just over 700 that the factory records indicate as built.

[Tilar]

I can assure you that Galen is wrong. Hell I have known of 7 myself over the years including mine. With the one that MoparSal has makes 8 unless it happens to be one of the previous 7. If mine had the original engine I would probably restore it but both engine and tranny are long gone. I do have a 1968 318 engine that runs good, but I want an R/T or maybe a clone with a 440. So unless I run across someone that wants to do some horse trading with an R/T in the same condition as my Texas car, my 318 3speed is being upgraded.

[ACUDANUT]

Who is Galen G.  (what a dumb name)  Was he the head bookkeeper of stats and numbers for  Chrysler and "knows it all" ..I doubt it.

[Ghoste]

All he is saying about the 68 ones is that there are three that he knows about personally.  He wasn't implying or inferring or alluding to anything else but that.  I am very much on record as not being one of his biggest fans but in this particualr case he didn't do anything that should get us riled up.  All he said was that he knows of three.

[A383Wing]

which is what I think I said back on page one here..at least that's what I tried to imply

like anyone listens to me anyway    

[Ghoste]

I understood you but it seemed to need a repeat.

[1974dodgecharger]

Ghostes box is always full....I was gonna send him 1 million dollars but it was full.

[Ghoste]

There's space now, send whatever you have left. 

[moparsal]

Chad, don't know what T.D.C.means, need info,
Thanks all

[Ghoste]

It's a nickname for Wayne Wootens Charger Registry.  The Dodge Charger Registry, or TDC Registry, or just TDC.

[Tilar]

Chad, don't know what T.D.C.means, need info,
Thanks all

It's a nickname for Wayne Wootens Charger Registry.  The Dodge Charger Registry, or TDC Registry, or just TDC.

I'm glad you cleared that up. The mechanic part of me wanted to say " Gee whiz, it means Top Dead Center... who doesn't know that??" 

[A383Wing]

I'm glad you cleared that up. The mechanic part of me wanted to say " Gee whiz, it means Top Dead Center... who doesn't know that??"

you would be surprised 

[BROCK]

Reminds me of the movie "My Cousin Vinnie"....The correct answer would be 5 degrees before top dead center

I've seen several people list Galen's numbers on their for sale cars.  This is 1 of 3 that Galen knows of is what they
ought to say

[Ghoste]

Outside of anyone doing engine work (whether a rebuild or a tuneup), why would anyone else need to?

[Tilar]

I'm glad you cleared that up. The mechanic part of me wanted to say " Gee whiz, it means Top Dead Center... who doesn't know that??"

you would be surprised 

No I really wouldn't be... I work part time at the local high school as a bus mechanic. The guy I work with had to have a stent put in a couple years ago and was out of work for a few weeks. The transportation admin brought in a "sub" mechanic who had signed up to come in during the summer to wash buses and help get them ready for the next school year. He was there for one day and I sent him home because he just didn't have a grasp on actual mechanic work, and by the time I would show him how to do something I could do it myself and go on to the next thing. I guess I'm just not as tolerant to that sort of thing as I used to be. 

[moparsal]

Well I have to sell this car, I hate when someone going to let you know & don't hear from them after a week plus,
I'll list it here ,if nothing happens eBay,
Looking for offers ,
Car on Long Island,

[1974dodgecharger]

Should be interesting a true 1 of 3......

[ACUDANUT]

 I hate it when people come on here with only one goal. To make money.