2015 Challenger buzz

[bull]

Whether it really happens remains to be seen but I've read and heard several rumors about the Challenger. It's days are numbered and so this is the last hurrah is one of the things being said. There's talk of 600+ hp from either a 6.1 or a Viper V10.  Pricing will be insane if it's really going this direction, but there will undoubtedly be many other basic models to choose from.

What kind of flap have you guys heard?

http://www.gtspirit.com/2013/08/13/spyshots-600hp-2015-dodge-challenger-srt7/

[JB400]

Power is supposed to come from a supercharged 6.2 Hemi called the Hellcat and priced similar to the GT500 and the z/28 according to Allpar.

Just read the article.  Says the same thing

[68X426]

http://wot.motortrend.com/1401_we_hear_2015_dodge_challenger_srt_hellcat_debuting_in_detroit.html

Motor Trend quotes the Hellcat as having a 6.2 supercharged engine. Possibly to be shown at the Detroit Auto Show, which runs right now, 1-13 to 1-26.

[JB400]

I've also heard that it may be at the North American Auto Show in New York if it isn't displayed in Detroit.  It'd probably get overlooked by that new mustang thing.

[bull]

Maybe. That Rustang.looks like a.mix.between a.Saturn.and.a.Supra or something. Not good.

[1974dodgecharger]

I hea4d the mustang is suppose to push 700hp from a ecoboost 5.6l it will top in its class over supercars for 75k

[Ghoste]

I wonder if they'll be able to find a way to get the power and still hit CAFE?  Or will they even bother to try?  Not right away but eventually.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

Here's the real buzz...............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcuKTheCcsE

[bull]

I wonder if they'll be able to find a way to get the power and still hit CAFE?  Or will they even bother to try?  Not right away but eventually.

Obummer might find a way to CAFE all the fun right out of the auto industry. The clown started his first term with a C300 and wound up behind the wheel of a Pious after the puppet masters beat him down. By the tone of some of the articles it sounds as if muscle will be a thing of the past... again. But then Ford has a 45 mpg Focus that should up the average. I don't know how/if Dodge can do the same, or if Fiat will let them.

[JB400]

I think it's the other way around.  After reading a press release from the head of Fiat, I'm under the impression that he'd rather have the high performance cars.  Alfa Romeo is scheduled to release a car back in the US next year, and the only electric car that they plan on building is the 500e.  The claim is that they're currently losing money on the 500e.  He did mention that they'll be expanding into hybrids shortly.  Maybe, with the combination of the hybrids and the 8 and 9 spd transmissions, they'll be able to meet the regulations and still be able to offer the fun stuff.

Here's his press release:  http://www.allpar.com/history/auto-shows/Detroit/sergio-2014.html

[bull]

I hope so. Still, it seems we are usually punished with these environmental standards while hundreds if not thousands of other nations go on about their business unconcerned about pollution and conservation.

[Mike DC]

Obummer might find a way to CAFE all the fun right out of the auto industry. The clown started his first term with a C300 and wound up behind the wheel of a Pious after the puppet masters beat him down. By the tone of some of the articles it sounds as if muscle will be a thing of the past... again. But then Ford has a 45 mpg Focus that should up the average. I don't know how/if Dodge can do the same, or if Fiat will let them.

1.  Higher CAFE regs
2.  Higher fuel prices --> crashed economy
3.  Fuel shortages.  

Pick one.  It's a simple question.


The public revolts at the idea of either one of the latter two.  A decent chunk of the public actually supports the first one.  What do you expect anyone in power to do?  Obummer will do this and so will everyone who follows him.  


We had lower CAFE before Obummer.  Instead, we had higher fuel prices --> crashed economy.  

[1974dodgecharger]

Mad max time........

Obummer might find a way to CAFE all the fun right out of the auto industry. The clown started his first term with a C300 and wound up behind the wheel of a Pious after the puppet masters beat him down. By the tone of some of the articles it sounds as if muscle will be a thing of the past... again. But then Ford has a 45 mpg Focus that should up the average. I don't know how/if Dodge can do the same, or if Fiat will let them.

1.  Higher CAFE regs
2.  Higher fuel prices --> crashed economy
3.  Fuel shortages.  

Pick one.  It's a simple question.


The public revolts at the idea of either one of the latter two.  A decent chunk of the public actually supports the first one.  What do you expect anyone in power to do?  Obummer will do this and so will everyone who follows him.  


We had lower CAFE before Obummer.  Instead, we had higher fuel prices --> crashed economy.  

[Ponch ®]

I wonder if they'll be able to find a way to get the power and still hit CAFE?  Or will they even bother to try?  Not right away but eventually.

Chrysler / Jeep / Dodge / FIAT has enough gas sippers in its fleet to offset the "halo" cars and the trucks. Hell, a new 300 w/ a V6 will get you 32 mpg on the highway easy.

[JB400]

I wonder if they'll be able to find a way to get the power and still hit CAFE?  Or will they even bother to try?  Not right away but eventually.

Chrysler / Jeep / Dodge / FIAT has enough gas sippers in its fleet to offset the "halo" cars and the trucks. Hell, a new 300 w/ a V6 will get you 32 mpg on the highway easy.

But, the problem is, they have to get 50 mpg in the next 10 years

[NYCMille]

The biggest problem with this car is that it still won't be as good as the Camaro, or even the current generation Mustang (to say nothing about the '15). The Challengers Achilles heal has always been size, weight and lack of tire. You could give it 1,000 hp and a 420 hp Mustang will still be better around a track. It's been riding on an outdated chassis for the last 7 years that, even with SUBSTANTIAL suspension and chassis modifications, still can't handle it's own weight, much less more power.

It's a nice car, a nice driver and yes, it will be fast like the good old days, just don't ask it to around a corner in comparison to the competition.

[Ghoste]

Are many people taking them to the track

[Troy]

Are many people taking them to the track

No, because they are pigs!

Troy

[Ghoste]

I mean all three.  Is the average Mustang or Camaro owner track using them either?

[Ponch ®]

I mean all three.  Is the average Mustang or Camaro owner track using them either?

Id tend to agree with this guy. People that are willing to spend $60K+ for a car to use on the track will go for an M class, a Porsche, Vette, etc. 

It's all about bragging rights anyway.

[1974dodgecharger]

Pound fortune and price per price the GTR still wins hands down.....at the track and road.

[Cooter]

So my ole 1970 Challenger with its 550 hp and mediocre handling is right on part with the 2012 Challenger?
HA!

[Mike DC]

The biggest problem with this car is that it still won't be as good as the Camaro, or even the current generation Mustang (to say nothing about the '15). The Challengers Achilles heal has always been size, weight and lack of tire. You could give it 1,000 hp and a 420 hp Mustang will still be better around a track. It's been riding on an outdated chassis for the last 7 years that, even with SUBSTANTIAL suspension and chassis modifications, still can't handle it's own weight, much less more power.

It's a nice car, a nice driver and yes, it will be fast like the good old days, just don't ask it to around a corner in comparison to the competition.

I agree.  But it's arguably the same problem the original Chally had.  Is it a problem or the car's identity?   Nobody wanting a real sports car would have spent $4000+ on a Challenger in 1970 either. 

[ws23rt]

Are many people taking them to the track

I was wondering the same thing. Sure there are those that want the performance and use it but I suspect that most just want some good numbers and will wear the car like an ear ring. --As my daughter says whatever.

[1974dodgecharger]

No majority will not take them to the track, don't confuse yourself.

[NYCMille]

Well... as a guy that goes to the track pretty regularly with his Mustang, is paid to drive these cars for a living, and judging how many other Camaro's and Mustang's I see there, and the literally 100's of emails we get every month inquiring about the cars, I would say yes, people are concerned about these cars perform.

Chrysler NEEDS to up their game. The Challenger drastically lacks in sales compared to the Camaro and Mustang and there's a reason for that.

[Road Dog]

Challenger produced about a third of the cars of the other two. Taken that into account I believe Challenger sales are better.

[War wagon]

Well... as a guy that goes to the track pretty regularly with his Mustang, is paid to drive these cars for a living, and judging how many other Camaro's and Mustang's I see there, and the literally 100's of emails we get every month inquiring about the cars, I would say yes, people are concerned about these cars perform.

Chrysler NEEDS to up their game. The Challenger drastically lacks in sales compared to the Camaro and Mustang and there's a reason for that.

The are tons of gear heads waiting in the wings for them to produce a track worthy car that doesn't cost the same as a viper to get in the game.
And not a FWD econo box....

3600lbs Max, 2 doors, RWD, 550+ HP...... I know I'd be in for one
I really don't think the bean counters will let loose the rains in order for that to happen thou

[Ghoste]

You make a good case, they put the track effort into a Viper or a Neon.  Why not something in between?

[War wagon]

You make a good case, they put the track effort into a Viper or a Neon.  Why not something in between?

My point exactly!

[NYCMille]

Dodge screwed the pooch with the Dart. That car SHOULD have been the new Neon SRT. Instead they brought back an old name with little to know cache, gave it an underpowered mill under the hood. They could have done this right. Look at Ford with the Focus ST or Fiesta ST - they are KILLING it with those little guys.

[JB400]

 Outside of Nascar and SCCA (which is hardly televised), what series are you going to run it in?  There isn't a series that would promote such a car. NHRA is about the only thing the car would be good in, and the Charger has that wrapped up.

[Ghoste]

I agree with that too Mike, there are three important price points to cover there.

[Ghoste]

If the competition exists the coverage will come.  Besides motorsports existed before tv coverage and outside of NASCAR it is still relatively non-existent.  I'd wouldn't let that stop production, the enthusiasts find out whats going on one way or another.

[War wagon]

Outside of Nascar and SCCA (which is hardly televised), what series are you going to run it in?  There isn't a series that would promote such a car. NHRA is about the only thing the car would be good in, and the Charger has that wrapped up.

Would be nice if they just built a car for car guys again. Weekend warriors who wanna drive a badass car to work and then rip it on a track ANY KIND OF TRACK on the weekend to stretch its legs and blow off steam from the weeks events.
If they sold enough of them like I'm sure they would they can build a race series based on the cars for various events.
But for guys like me who respect the laws of the road , I truly enjoy running a car on a closed track and letting it all hang out.
I raced auto x, road course, oval track, drag strip pretty much wherever I could Legally use my hot rod toy.
Why not build a car for just that......
Would be something to pull into a road course event in a Mopar and wipe the smirks from the usual track suspects....
Then drive home
Just sayin

[NYCMille]

I agree. Dodge is drowning right now in my opinion, and now with FiAT taking over... God knows what's going to happen. Take the Viper for instance, oh wait... SRT Viper (dumbest move ever separating the brands). Amazing car, but feels like an ox cart compared to others in it's class. The Dart - totally flawed from the beginning...

Mopar/Dodge/Chrysler enthusiasts WILL pay money, but not until the companies get their head out of their ass and build the products we're demanding. Dodge has ALWAYS been a day late and a dollar short with everything. Example - right now their most likely coming up with a hot rod version of the Dart to compete with the Focus ST... that's great, however the Focus ST came out 2 years ago and is currently being updated. Same with the Viper... the new Corvette Z06, simply based on the numbers, will be a better car for less money.

Would be something to pull into a road course event in a Mopar and wipe the smirks from the usual track suspects....

- exactly.

[Ghoste]

Sadly I think Fiat will view Chrysler much as Daimler did, a sub par American brand only worthy of mass producing sub par cars for the sub par American market.  Sports cars and touring cars are only for sophisticated tastes that can truly appreciate the greatness of Mercedes or Alfa Romeo as they twist around the mountain roads to their villa.

[Ponch ®]

You make a good case, they put the track effort into a Viper or a Neon.  Why not something in between?

Can't argue with that point. I'm considering what was once unthinkable to me - selling the 08 Charger and getting into something like a  Subaru BRZ / Scion FRS or Genesis Coupe. Between the Challenger, Charger and the Satellite, I'm kinda over the big heavy car thing. Too bad none of the Big Three have anything remotely analogous to those cars (heard the argument that the Genesis and 350Z are meant to compete w the Mustang, but I don't buy it).

That being said, when discussing the relative attributes of the Mustang, Challenger, and Camaro over one another, we're largely talking semiotics.

[JB400]

I'm not going to count the Dart out, just yet.  It was just introduced this model year.  Besides, you don't throw out the top of the line, high performance package right off the bat.  You start with an appetizer first, then throw in extra tidbits every so often to keep interest in your product.  Don't bash the Dart, it's just getting started.  I don't know about anywhere else, but there are quite a few Darts running around in my area.  I'm sure the new 200 will be as well.

  I doubt that Fiat will treat Chrysler like Daimler did.  The only positive that I see that Daimler did was let the Hemi be put into production.  Fiat brings a lot for Chrysler to build upon, namely Ferrari, Maserati, and Alfa Romeo.  Besides, Fiat needs Chrysler and Dodge if they want to be in the US market.  There is no way the clown car is going to do well in North America. Maserati and Alfa Romeo can bring a lot of resources that could allow Chrysler to compete with Cadillac head to head.  I see Ferrari helping Dodge out, especially with the KERS system.  Even if Chrysler has to use smaller engines with turbos, KERS could bring a lot of appeal.  How would you like a 50-100 horse boost at the push of a button and not have to refill a bottle?  It might be a good 10 years before we see it in mass production.

The car you're asking for from Dodge is supposed to hit the streets in 2016 with the new Cuda/ Avenger/ Challenger.  The name hasn't been released, just rumors

[Ponch ®]

I'm not going to count the Dart out, just yet.  It was just introduced this model year.  Besides, you don't throw out the top of the line, high performance package right off the bat.  You start with an appetizer first, then throw in extra tidbits every so often to keep interest in your product.  Don't bash the Dart, it's just getting started.  I don't know about anywhere else, but there are quite a few Darts running around in my area.  I'm sure the new 200 will be as well.

  I doubt that Fiat will treat Chrysler like Daimler did.  The only positive that I see that Daimler did was let the Hemi be put into production.  Fiat brings a lot for Chrysler to build upon, namely Ferrari, Maserati, and Alfa Romeo.  Besides, Fiat needs Chrysler and Dodge if they want to be in the US market.  There is no way the clown car is going to do well in North America. Maserati and Alfa Romeo can bring a lot of resources that could allow Chrysler to compete with Cadillac head to head.  I see Ferrari helping Dodge out, especially with the KERS system.  Even if Chrysler has to use smaller engines with turbos, KERS could bring a lot of appeal.  How would you like a 50-100 horse boost at the push of a button and not have to refill a bottle?  It might be a good 10 years before we see it in mass production.

The car you're asking for from Dodge is supposed to hit the streets in 2016 with the new Cuda/ Avenger/ Challenger.  The name hasn't been released, just rumors

the Alfa 4C looks promising and maybe Chrysler/Dodge could roll out their badge engineered version..but it absolutely can't be in the same price range ($50-60K) as the 4C. Needs to compete with FRS/BRZ types. Rear wheel drive sports coupe for under $30K.

[Ghoste]

I hope you're right Stroker, but a lot of people said the same thing about the Daimler merger and the Mercedes association.

[Ponch ®]

FWIW, I test drove a Dart about a year or so ago when they first came out and although I was impressed with how well it drove and the significantly improved interior, it didn't feel like a "fun" car...nothing special about it. Like my mom's Camry. Which is fine if you're one of those "a car is an appliance" people, but not for a car guy...

[JB400]

The problem with the Daimler merger was, Daimler couldn't offer anything to Chrysler other than financial support.  Also, they had nothing to gain from the merger either.  Not so with Fiat.  There's plenty for both parties to borrow off of each other and benefit from.

[Troy]

The thing about the Focus is that it was in production for several years worldwide before we ever saw it. The Dart is all new I believe. I doubt the Focus had a performance version on day 1 (but I don't know for sure).

But any way... Americans always want the best/fastest/coolest even though they may never use 1/10th of the performance available. How many Corvette ZR-1 owners do you see out flogging their cars? How many people with exotics ever drive them hard enough to break the tires loose? How many guys that drop high horsepower big blocks into their 2nd gen Chargers beat on them regularly? Doesn't mean other people don't look at them and say "man, I want a car just like that!". Sooooo, if you want bragging rights you buy the car that has them - even if you never drive anywhere but the grocery store. Very few people out there can drive any of these cars to the edge but that won't stop people from buying them (never has). If you like straight line performance (and when dealing with muscle cars that's what most people think of) it seems like the Challenger can hold it's own. It's still a fat pig though! I believe that if the Mopar faithful weren't gobbling up Challengers just because of brand loyalty the sales would be much worse than they are. But hey, people can spend their money however they like on whatever makes them happy. Not everyone wants a (barely) street legal race car for every day driving. If you've got enough for a seldom used "play toy" then you can buy whatever you want. It's just that anyone who competes seriously doesn't want to be hampered by physics and parts availability.

Troy

[1974dodgecharger]

What Troy said.....

[JB400]

New Hellcat engine logo as seen on SRT t shirts:



http://www.allpar.com/news/

[Mytur Binsdirti]

Well, that certainly is ugly.

[cudaken]

For the heck of it I looked up the current Challenger market share,19.9 %

http://www.camaro5.com/january-2014-camaro-sales-figures-and-vs-mustang-challenger/

Yea, I am sure 19.9% was not there target. If they could keep the style and make it smaller, I wonder if that would help? 

[Mytur Binsdirti]

January 2014 Delivery (sales) Stats:

Camaro January 2014 Deliveries (actual sales): 4,733 -4% (Pr Ye)

Compared to Competition:

Mustang January 2014 Delivery (sales):3,881 8% (Pr Ye)
Challenger January 2014 Delivery (sales):2,458 -30% (Pr Ye)



I'm surprised that the Camaro outsold the Mustang for that month. Challengers sales are half of the Camaro, but I'll bet that I see 5 Camaros to every one Challenger and 20 more Mustangs to every Camaro and Challenger.

[69charger2002]

The Camaro did have a minor styling redesign which im sure helped. I don't care for the front end as much now, but getting rid of the "sunglasses" taillights helped IMO. Doesn't matter, i can't see out of one anyway so i'd never consider one.

[64dartgt]

I am with Troy.  While I love the concept of super performance cars, the reality is that its ass busting ride and the plethora of potholes in New England make owning one a less than enjoyable reality most of the year.  My neighbor has a Viper that hasn't left his garage in years.  The Challenger is what it is...a fun looking, fun driving car for aging hotrodders.  The performance of a stock R/T blows the doors off any of my old iron.  The Camaro looks cool...but you can't see out of it at all.  The Mustang is faster and cheaper...but has no trunk and you can't put anyone in the back seat.  Plus the styling is pretty tired.

What Dodge should do is take some of their European chassis and build a low budget, fast two door car like the 90's Dodge Daytona.  There was also a whole generation of drivers who loved radical cars like the Conquest and Eagle Talon?  How about something based on an Alfa Romeo Spider chassis with AWD?

I agree that there is a lot of potential.  But having dealt with Italian manufacturer's before, I will believe in the reality when I see it and I probably won't like the price tag. 

[StoneCold]

Some numbers.  I like mine..