Torque.. Wheel vs flywheel

[RECHRGD]

My last  chassis Dyno netted about 370lbs of torque at the wheels.  This is through a 727 w/transgo kit, tight 10" converter and a 3.55 geared 8 3/4 rear.  Any guesses at what the flywheel torque would be?

[Cooter]

Hard to say, but a guess?
Prolly 470.

[RECHRGD]

Thanks, it's just so much is said about hp conversion from wheel to flywheel, but I don't recall anything on torque....

[War wagon]

I'll play along.....
430 tq at the flywheel based on those numbers and I bet it runs mid 12's

[War wagon]

I just noticed your mid 13 sec time in your sig. Was that on slicks

[Cooter]

Loose converters and tall tires mess with chassis dynos so bad I don't even worry with payin all that money to he let down.
Once hadda 440 in a customers Road runner. Dyno'd engine @512 hp...he puts it on a chassis dyno and calls me up raising hell because his "at the feet" numbers were only 390 hp.

[RECHRGD]

I just noticed your mid 13 sec time in your sig. Was that on slicks

No, 28" tall street radials on a 4,000" air day.  60' times sucked at mostly 2.3 times.  I want to try some drag radials or slicks this summer and hope to get into the 12s......

[War wagon]

I just noticed your mid 13 sec time in your sig. Was that on slicks

No, 28" tall street radials on a 4,000" air day.  60' times sucked at mostly 2.3 times.  I want to try some drag radials or slicks this summer and hope to get into the 12s......

That's what I thought ..... If you are serious about improving your 60ft , don't waste your time with drag radials. Put some Hoosiers on there

Very nice numbers either way!!

[XH29N0G]

Thanks, it's just so much is said about hp conversion from wheel to flywheel, but I don't recall anything on torque....

My   Torque and HP at a given RPM are related by an equation like torque= HP *5252/RPM.  This means that if you drop the HP at that RPM by 30% then you will drop the torque at that RPM by 30%.  The catch is that we usually think about loss of peak HP which is at a higher RPM than peak torque and if the percentage lost increases with RPM the percentage that applies where Torque is at its peak might be lower.  

I was not taught this so if someone knows differently, please correct me.

[RECHRGD]

Makes sense to me.....

[BSB67]

I just noticed your mid 13 sec time in your sig. Was that on slicks

No, 28" tall street radials on a 4,000" air day.  60' times sucked at mostly 2.3 times.  I want to try some drag radials or slicks this summer and hope to get into the 12s......

DA = 4,000' ?

You are making good power.  Flywheel, gross corrected hp is probably around 420 hp (assumed a 3900 lb weight).  Without changing anything, I think you can make 12.90s.  With the tires you have and some practice, you can get to 2.0s 60 ft times and that will get you 13.2ish.  Go out on a 3000' ft day and that will be 13.00 @ 107.  Plus or minus a little.

[RECHRGD]

I just noticed your mid 13 sec time in your sig. Was that on slicks

No, 28" tall street radials on a 4,000" air day.  60' times sucked at mostly 2.3 times.  I want to try some drag radials or slicks this summer and hope to get into the 12s......

DA = 4,000' ?

You are making good power.  Flywheel, gross corrected hp is probably around 420 hp (assumed a 3900 lb weight).  Without changing anything, I think you can make 12.90s.  With the tires you have and some practice, you can get to 2.0s 60 ft times and that will get you 13.2ish.  Go out on a 3000' ft day and that will be 13.00 @ 107.  Plus or minus a little.

Practice, practice, practice.  Good advice, but hard to do when I really don't want to thrash on the car at the track more than once or twice a season.  Maybe a trip to the coast for some good air one of these days....

[BSB67]

I just noticed your mid 13 sec time in your sig. Was that on slicks

No, 28" tall street radials on a 4,000" air day.  60' times sucked at mostly 2.3 times.  I want to try some drag radials or slicks this summer and hope to get into the 12s......

DA = 4,000' ?

You are making good power.  Flywheel, gross corrected hp is probably around 420 hp (assumed a 3900 lb weight).  Without changing anything, I think you can make 12.90s.  With the tires you have and some practice, you can get to 2.0s 60 ft times and that will get you 13.2ish.  Go out on a 3000' ft day and that will be 13.00 @ 107.  Plus or minus a little.

Practice, practice, practice.  Good advice, but hard to do when I really don't want to thrash on the car at the track more than once or twice a season.  Maybe a trip to the coast for some good air one of these days....

The trick is to push the tire as much as possible without any spin.

[69wannabe]

Loose converters and tall tires mess with chassis dynos so bad I don't even worry with payin all that money to he let down.
Once hadda 440 in a customers Road runner. Dyno'd engine @512 hp...he puts it on a chassis dyno and calls me up raising hell because his "at the feet" numbers were only 390 hp.

My buddy spent a fortune building a blown 440 for his 68 charger. It was 30 over 7.5 to 1 compression pistions, steel factory crank, H beam rods, aftermarket main caps and studs, cast heads with oversize valves, a mopar 292 509 cam with the 114 CL and an 871 Dyers blower on it. He was expecting 1000hp and he took it and had it tuned and dyno'd and it turned 475 hp at the rear wheels at 8 pounds of boost! It ran good and was awesome looking on there but a good built 500 inch stroker runs bout the same in my opinion. The guy at the dyno said the torqueflight was a heavy duty tranny and takes alot away from the engine on a rear wheel dyno. I don't know how true this is but he told my buddy that if it was a manual tranny the numbers would have been better.

[Cooter]

I've seen a trend lately just as with "street cars" on TV, about numbers at the wheels. Too many low info people who don't understand engine dynos and chassis dynos, all see these idiots putting up "2000 hp Supra at the wheels!!!!" On you tube and don't understand how that's done. They then begin to believe that this is common place and easily done.

Another one that I can these idiots trying is the FAST racing. Sure, Dudek runs 9's with a "stock' car....
If you look at the whole picture, you'll see there is more than meets the eye. But, inevidably, there will be some idiot that thinks all he needs is a 425 hp Hemi in a b body to run 9's with his buddies Boosted supra.
These are the ones that cuss out dyno operators for their low numbers.

[1974dodgecharger]

I've seen a trend lately just as with "street cars" on TV, about numbers at the wheels. Too many low info people who don't understand engine dynos and chassis dynos, all see these idiots putting up "2000 hp Supra at the wheels!!!!" On you tube and don't understand how that's done. They then begin to believe that this is common place and easily done.

Another one that I can these idiots trying is the FAST racing. Sure, Dudek runs 9's with a "stock' car....
If you look at the whole picture, you'll see there is more than meets the eye. But, inevidably, there will be some idiot that thinks all he needs is a 425 hp Hemi in a b body to run 9's with his buddies Boosted supra.
These are the ones that cuss out dyno operators for their low numbers.

Supra owners r just as funny, '20 dollar air filter gives them 100hp' and turning boost up with a dial in their car claim 800hp on tap as they call it.

[cdr]

mph at the track dont lie. 

[1974dodgecharger]

mph at the track dont lie. 

What's the diff between a 600hp vs  1000hp.......

[BSB67]

Another one that I can these idiots trying is the FAST racing. Sure, Dudek runs 9's with a "stock' car....

You've made clear more than once your distain for the FAST guys/cars.  I really don't get it.  To my knowledge, they have never done anything to suggest that their cars are stock, and everyone knows they are not.  It seems your issue is that you think they are trying to suggest otherwise, which of course they are not.  Just look at the rules.  Even the name, Factory Appearing Stock Tire pretty much suggest that it is almost anything goes if you can camouflage it enough to look factory-ish.  There is no suggested or implied stock body, stock suspension, stock engine or stock drive train.

Now the Pure Stock (PSMCDR) guys going 11s and 10s does kinda make me scratch my head.  But in fairness, I have not looked that close to their rules.  I think they have some latitude in pistons and compression ratio.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Another one that I can these idiots trying is the FAST racing. Sure, Dudek runs 9's with a "stock' car....

You've made clear more than once your distain for the FAST guys/cars.  I really don't get it.  To my knowledge, they have never done anything to suggest that their cars are stock, and everyone knows they are not.  It seems your issue is that you think they are trying to suggest otherwise, which of course they are not.  Just look at the rules.  Even the name, Factory Appearing Stock Tire pretty much suggest that it is almost anything goes if you can camouflage it enough to look factory-ish.  There is no suggested or implied stock body, stock suspension, stock engine or stock drive train.

Now the Pure Stock (PSMCDR) guys going 11s and 10s does kinda make me scratch my head.  But in fairness, I have not looked that close to their rules.  I think they have some latitude in pistons and compression ratio.

The pure stock is a real head scratcher. Ive got a few friends in the class. The math just doesnt add up for the times they squeeze off consistantly with no electronics. Compression ratio is not limited to stock but have to be stock stroke, stock style pistons. No crazy lightweights with different ring setups. Stock runners and ports in heads. Stock valve size. Milling allowed. Stock lift cam. Duration unregulated. Stock ratio rockers, roller ok. Must run hydrUlic flat tappet cam. So while there are some liberties it is extremely restricted yet they knock off ridiculous wheel standing passes at times. I love it!

[Cooter]

Another one that I can these idiots trying is the FAST racing. Sure, Dudek runs 9's with a "stock' car....

You've made clear more than once your distain for the FAST guys/cars.  I really don't get it.  To my knowledge, they have never done anything to suggest that their cars are stock, and everyone knows they are not.  It seems your issue is that you think they are trying to suggest otherwise, which of course they are not.

You opened this box......
More than once plenty here have missed my point, here it's no different.
The point I was making was not what the rich guys are trying to do in FAST racing, but the fact they even USE the words 'factory' and 'stock' in the class name. You, along with everybody else knows damn good and well (and I used this term above) idiots will NOT split hairs by stating that they only 'appear'to be 'stock'....
Idiots will think they ARE stock because they are low info morons like I described.
Meanwhile, someone doing all they can with a car they aren't investing STUPID money in just to 'appear' stock, gets overlooked because it 'should' run 10's with all that 'stuff' done to it. Just like when insane at the wheels numbers become the 'norm' to where if it 'only' puts dwn 360 hp at the wheels, you screwed up somewhere. I have gone a few rounds with these putz's on FB  stating Dudek's car only appears to be stock..... want first shot at what type of Dudek defending comments come from the 'idiots'?

When, in reality, 'we' know that's respectable. Think MY distain for FAST guys playing the sleeper role is bad?
You should research FB comments about 'Street Outlaws' and why they now call the cars "fastest STREET RACED CARS on the planet", instead of STREET CARS like they were.....

If all 'stock' 426 hemis should appear to run in the high tens, then wonder why there are so many out there with the same stuff running high 13's???
I can only hope this helps just a little as to calling BS when it needs it.
Who the hell buys a $2000.00 set of hemi exhaust manifolds and spends another $1000 or so in extrude honing to flow like a set of cheaper headers?? Those who are after the 'Wow' factor when the only "Wow" most see is the amount of money spent to look 'stock'.
Afterall, someone might actually believe it.
Look at the shape the county's in...

[Cooter]

mph at the track dont lie.  

What's the diff between a 600hp vs  1000hp.......

Depends on A LOT of factors. At the crank or at the feet?
How much stall speed in auto, or stick shift?
How much gear?
How much weight?
Reaction times?
60 ft times?

[BSB67]

Another one that I can these idiots trying is the FAST racing. Sure, Dudek runs 9's with a "stock' car....

You've made clear more than once your distain for the FAST guys/cars.  I really don't get it.  To my knowledge, they have never done anything to suggest that their cars are stock, and everyone knows they are not.  It seems your issue is that you think they are trying to suggest otherwise, which of course they are not.

You opened this box......
More than once plenty here have missed my point, here it's no different.
The point I was making was not what the rich guys are trying to do in FAST racing, but the fact they even USE the words 'factory' and 'stock' in the class name. You, along with everybody else knows damn good and well (and I used this term above) idiots will NOT split hairs by stating that they only 'appear'to be 'stock'....
Idiots will think they ARE stock because they are low info morons like I described.
Meanwhile, someone doing all they can with a car they aren't investing STUPID money in just to 'appear' stock, gets overlooked because it 'should' run 10's with all that 'stuff' done to it. Just like when insane at the wheels numbers become the 'norm' to where if it 'only' puts dwn 360 hp at the wheels, you screwed up somewhere. I have gone a few rounds with these putz's on FB  stating Dudek's car only appears to be stock..... want first shot at what type of Dudek defending comments come from the 'idiots'?

When, in reality, 'we' know that's respectable. Think MY distain for FAST guys playing the sleeper role is bad?
You should research FB comments about 'Street Outlaws' and why they now call the cars "fastest STREET RACED CARS on the planet", instead of STREET CARS like they were.....

If all 'stock' 426 hemis should appear to run in the high tens, then wonder why there are so many out there with the same stuff running high 13's???
I can only hope this helps just a little as to calling BS when it needs it.
Who the hell buys a $2000.00 set of hemi exhaust manifolds and spends another $1000 or so in extrude honing to flow like a set of cheaper headers?? Those who are after the 'Wow' factor when the only "Wow" most see is the amount of money spent to look 'stock'.
Afterall, someone might actually believe it.
Look at the shape the county's in...

First, I recommend staying away from FB,

2) A lot of people, including myself,  have learned a lot from these guys.  Honestly, a lot of street guys stuff is faster today for it.

3) Most of the guys in FAST will tell you a lot of what they have done.  Maybe not ring pack and cam details, but a lot.

[1974dodgecharger]

What is this group FAST and what is FB?

[Ghoste]

I still love watching the FAST cars run.