Serious Stalling Issue on RT

[Bello]

2006 RT 5.7 only Mod is K&N Intake

over the past 4 weeks I have been trying to resolve this issue (extremely rough idle and stall) with endless research. Here is what I've done so far

replaced PCM
replaced camshaft position sensor
replaced crankshaft position sensor
Replaced MAP sensor
Checked IAT
conducted a block test to detect faulty headgaskets (passed)
checked all fuses and relays

now the stalling is back again. I also have codes for o2 sensors and got a recent code of P1128 and P1129 and now getting P0300 (but I know where the o2 codes came from. it came after the stalling when I ill-advised jumped the asd relay. I did the jump with the old pcm. It didnt work and I got codes so I put the asd back in and then a couple days later installed a new pcm.) Now im getting P0300. I recently had the valve cover gaskets replaced and new spark plugs. On start up a cloud of what appears to be smoke rises from exhaust. It stinks pretty bad. If I rev the engine it will struggle to stay on but once it warms up I can drive and it will stay on but sometimes it does stall. I dont have the money to keep troubleshooting I wish somebody knew a sure fix. The stealership knows nothing. Please help.

I have uploaded a video on youtube at about 1:23 you can see for yourself the stalling issue im having.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY8--q8aGSw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY8--q8aGSw

[2Luke2]

Well you need fuel, air, and spark. So you have pretty much replaced everything air related and some engine management/timing. I would check spark and fuel flow.

[Bello]

Well you need fuel, air, and spark. So you have pretty much replaced everything air related and some engine management/timing. I would check spark and fuel flow.

thanks alot. What would you suggest I try first. I already checked the fuel pump and its fuses

[2Luke2]

You should try to get a hold of a fuel pressure tester and make sure you are getting fuel and it's not cutting out. It could be something as simple as a clogged fuel filter.

As for spark, I personally have never checked for spark with a coil pack. You need to remove the plastic covers, and then undo one of the coil packs with the two screws on the top of the coil pack. If I remember right there is one coil pack per cylinder and two spark plugs. You also need to remove the electrical connector that is hooked to it. At the very least you could look for any signs of damage/wear by pulling them out. Just be careful and unplug your battery before you start just to be on the safe side.

This is what you are looking for when you take the covers off.


This is what it will look like when you pop it off the spark plugs.


One of these might be able to help you identify the problem easier if it's a coil pack/spark plug problem.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gwd9VoTDHgI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1zhgsnyZWw

[tan top]

  has it been running ok since the K & N intake was fitted ?

[Bello]

  has it been running ok since the K & N intake was fitted ?

yes it was running fine, no problems at all. Now on start up it idles hard and stalls but if I rev it until it warms up it drives ok but I can still tell its not full power

[Bello]

Hey 2Luke2 great pics. I am familiar with the coil packs etc. I did a spark plug change a few months ago thats how I noticed oil on the plugs and had the vavle cover gasket replaced. I am going to try that tmw once I get ahold of a fuel pressure tester. Question, far as checking the fuel lines where do I plug in the fuel pressure tester. Is it that black cap on a silver/gray line next to the (driverside) manifold?

[tan top]

 not familiar with a k& N intake  set up over stock ,  but is the air tempreture sensor still in the In comming air stream to the throttle body ? or close to the new filter  or what ever the set up is ?
also check pcv  pipe

[Bello]

not familiar with a k& N intake  set up over stock ,  but is the air tempreture sensor still in the In comming air stream to the throttle body ? or close to the new filter  or what ever the set up is ?
also check pcv  pipe

I checked the pcv it was good the IAT is in the In coming air stream. I check that too. I am starting to think its the O2 sensors. All four have failed from my dumb a## doing an ASD relay jump (listening to someone else in another forum). That caused my o2 sensors to fail. I got a new PCM so now as a last ditch effort I am going to changed the sensors. This is what I found it describes some of my symptoms too: Oh and another reason why I think its the O2/emissions is the CEL blinks at times

"it is far easier to spot a failing sensor by paying attention to the engine's condition. The faulty sensor can send inaccurate readings to the computer that disrupt the engine timing and combustion intervals as well as unbalance the fuel-to-air ratio. This may cause the motor to idle roughly.  The engine might also miss while idling or operating at parking lot speeds. When the timing is thrown off, the sensor may cause engine pinging. Pinging, or engine knock, is a metallic sound that occurs in the engine when the combustion process is disrupted and thrown out of its proper cycle. Typically, pinging occurs when the fuel mixture in the combustion chamber is ignited at the wrong time." - See more at: http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/app/newsfeed/detail?article=800732802#sthash.TNDgn5jo.dpuf

[2Luke2]

Yea, I could definitely see an o2 sensor making the car idle rough and stalling. You can check test the O2 sensors pretty easily.

This isn't the same car obviously, but he goes into a bit of troubleshooting that should help you check out the sensor before you just replace it.
http://youtu.be/mzRjqht_U3Q?t=3m42s

[Cooter]

Blinking CEL will kill cat. Converters. Possibly running lean.
Are you running a K&N AIR FILTER?
If so, might try spraying MASS AIR FLOW sensor cleaner on mass air flow sensor as that oil contaminates sensor...
Also, without looking at DATA on scanner, its hard to tell what tge STFT are doing.

[Bello]

Blinking CEL will kill cat. Converters. Possibly running lean.
Are you running a K&N AIR FILTER?
If so, might try spraying MASS AIR FLOW sensor cleaner on mass air flow sensor as that oil contaminates sensor...
Also, without looking at DATA on scanner, its hard to tell what tge STFT are doing.

I dont think I have a MAF I have a New MAP and IAT. Im ordering the o2 sensors now so I can see if that fixes it

[Cooter]

So its a speed density motor? Damn....don't ever put a big ol cam in it then.
Also check IAC  motor. HUGE problem on mopars.

[Bello]

im going to check or have checked almost every thing except the price of tea in China lol I mean man this is a huge headache. Luckily i have a 3.5 that has never given me these types of problems. So tmw I'll change all 4 o2 sensors and see where that leads me

[Bello]

UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE

ok I narrowed the problem down to the EGR and Cat. The car only stalls out on start up then runs fine after that. It ran for 2 hours yesterday no stall. So atleast that is the good news. Bad news: I changed all 4 02 sensors, erased the codes but they came back, (all 4). I went to autozone and used their code reader and got a bunch of other codes 2 of which was cat and EGR. The way the car runs and smell on start up im almost 100% sure its the cat and the EGR

[fy469rtse]

When's the last time you washed that KN filter out and re-oiled it, seen lots of guys do that because its re-usable it gets ignored, check the filters not clogged, that could be connected to the O2 sensors
also do you have radio code ,
Some of these modern computers just need to be reset, disconnect battery, re connect and computer starts from factory settings

[Bello]

When's the last time you washed that KN filter out and re-oiled it, seen lots of guys do that because its re-usable it gets ignored, check the filters not clogged, that could be connected to the O2 sensors
also do you have radio code ,
Some of these modern computers just need to be reset, disconnect battery, re connect and computer starts from factory settings

I have reset a million times using code reader and disconnecting the battery and pulling fuse 11,14,16. Codes remain. I cleaned  and oiled the K&N about two months ago. The problem is the Cats are bad, evap bad and im going to change the fuel pump/filter. I can tell by the loss of power when accelerating, the smell and how it runs on start up. It only stalls on initial start up. I can hear the cats, sounds like they clogged. Today it stalled 5 minutes after I started it and then ran for almost 2 hours without stalling. I changed the EGR so that's not it. The Evap canister is bad too, all caused by jumping the ASD relay. That jump damaged the 02's and in turn damaged the cats and whooop the sputtering and stalling...go figure. Now i have to spend $800 to fix the cats.

[Cooter]

Just swapping parts will eventually fix car I guess.

[Bello]

Just swapping parts will eventually fux car I guess.

it was a process of elimination. im glad i did now I know exactly what the problem is

[Cooter]

Just swapping parts will eventually fux car I guess.

it was a process of elimination. im glad i did now I know exactly what the problem is

I'm afraid bad cats (clogged/inefficient) won't cause your intermittent stalling upon start up, but goid luck anyway.

[Bello]

Just swapping parts will eventually fux car I guess.

it was a process of elimination. im glad i did now I know exactly what the problem is

I'm afraid bad cats (clogged/inefficient) won't cause your intermittent stalling upon start up, but goid luck anyway.

I beg to differ A totally clogged converter causes the engine to quit after a few minutes because of all the increased exhaust back pressure and that is exactly what its doing

[Cooter]

Wow........ok...you obviously know more than I.....good luck again....




Pssst....Ghoste, you see what I mean now?

[Bello]

Wow........ok...you obviously know more than I.....good luck again....




Pssst....Ghoste, you see what I mean now?

who cares what you know. I know what the problem is and honestly i dont need your input.

[Cooter]

Well, then.......

[Bello]

Well, then.......

since u know so much why im getting a cat code, new o2 sensors and still gettin a o2 code? when i took the cats off they rattled with broken pieces inside etc.....if according to you its not the cats stalling the car why are there so many professionals who say otherwise?

[Bello]

http://www.aa1car.com/library/exhaust_backpressure.htm

[cudaken]

Wow........ok...you obviously know more than I.....good luck again....




Pssst....Ghoste, you see what I mean now?

who cares what you know. I know what the problem is and honestly i dont need your input.

Bello, while Cooter may or not be on the right track with your problem different views and ideas never hurt. After all you came to the site and asked for help so if you don't agree, well gin and say thank you.

Far as your problem, I have not ran a repair shop for 10+ years now so I am way behind. But, from what I knew from yesterday tech I would agree with Cooter.

One thing I will warn you about is just reading the codes. Sometime codes for like a o2 sensor can be triggered by another problem. Had a lady come in come into my shop and wanted a O2 sensor installed, did not want a diagnostic ran. She knew it was the problem because Auto Zone pulled the O2 sensor code, and was not going to waste her money on a diagnostic!

Installed her O2 sensor, lite came on and I got bitched out?  Few days later she came back and apologized, had a diagnostic done at another shop. She has a vacuum at the intake that was triggering the O2 code.

With there being rattling in the cat's, good chances they are bad and hope it fixes your problem. 

  Cuda Ken   

[Cooter]

 

[Bello]

Wow........ok...you obviously know more than I.....good luck again....




Pssst....Ghoste, you see what I mean now?

who cares what you know. I know what the problem is and honestly i dont need your input.

Bello, while Cooter may or not be on the right track with your problem different views and ideas never hurt. After all you came to the site and asked for help so if you don't agree, well gin and say thank you.

Far as your problem, I have not ran a repair shop for 10+ years now so I am way behind. But, from what I knew from yesterday tech I would agree with Cooter.

One thing I will warn you about is just reading the codes. Sometime codes for like a o2 sensor can be triggered by another problem. Had a lady come in come into my shop and wanted a O2 sensor installed, did not want a diagnostic ran. She knew it was the problem because Auto Zone pulled the O2 sensor code, and was not going to waste her money on a diagnostic!

Installed her O2 sensor, lite came on and I got bitched out?   Few days later she came back and apologized, had a diagnostic done at another shop. She has a vacuum at the intake that was triggering the O2 code.

With there being rattling in the cat's, good chances they are bad and hope it fixes your problem.  

 Cuda Ken  

Cuda Ken I respect everyones input/opinion but what I don't respect is sarcasm and someone who acts like a know it all. I dont claim to know it all. im not that old and wise but I have diagnosed this problem for a few weeks now. Everything is pointing towards the cats. The car only stalls after warming up for about 5 mins. I did every possible test to rule everything else out. the only thing that I know for sure that are bad is the cats, the cat codes, the smell, the flashing engine light, the rattle, the sluggishness other codes etc. I wish it was something else, I do. but just to show that I am not a prick I will have another vacuum test done

[Bello]

Wow........ok...you obviously know more than I.....good luck again....




Pssst....Ghoste, you see what I mean now?

who cares what you know. I know what the problem is and honestly i dont need your input.

Bello, while Cooter may or not be on the right track with your problem different views and ideas never hurt. After all you came to the site and asked for help so if you don't agree, well gin and say thank you.

Far as your problem, I have not ran a repair shop for 10+ years now so I am way behind. But, from what I knew from yesterday tech I would agree with Cooter.

One thing I will warn you about is just reading the codes. Sometime codes for like a o2 sensor can be triggered by another problem. Had a lady come in come into my shop and wanted a O2 sensor installed, did not want a diagnostic ran. She knew it was the problem because Auto Zone pulled the O2 sensor code, and was not going to waste her money on a diagnostic!

Installed her O2 sensor, lite came on and I got bitched out?   Few days later she came back and apologized, had a diagnostic done at another shop. She has a vacuum at the intake that was triggering the O2 code.

With there being rattling in the cat's, good chances they are bad and hope it fixes your problem.  

 Cuda Ken  

Cuda Ken I respect everyones input/opinion but what I don't respect is sarcasm and someone who acts like a know it all. I dont claim to know it all. im not that old and wise but I have diagnosed this problem for a few weeks now. Everything is pointing towards the cats. The car only stalls after warming up for about 5 mins. I did every possible test to rule everything else out. the only thing that I know for sure that are bad is the cats, the cat codes, the smell, the flashing engine light, the rattle, the sluggishness other codes etc. I wish it was something else, I do. but just to show that I am not a prick I will have another vacuum test done

[Bello]

Hey Cooter listen man. I apologize. Im just so frustrated with this issue. forgive me man and thanks for the input

[cudaken]

Hey Cooter listen man. I apologize. Im just so frustrated with this issue. forgive me man and thanks for the input

Bello, that a stand up Mopar Person Style! 

Far as Cooter all wise being right?  I don't don't think so!  But he is right most of the time.

Again, good luck with your problem.

Cuda Ken

[Bello]

Hey Cooter listen man. I apologize. Im just so frustrated with this issue. forgive me man and thanks for the input

Bello, that a stand up Mopar Person Style! 

Far as Cooter all wise being right?  I don't don't think so!  But he is right most of the time.

Again, good luck with your problem.

Cuda Ken

After Cooter pissed me off lol nah just joking I actually gave some thought to what both of you were saying and went out and tried to see if it was a vacuum leak. While the car was running I played around with the pcv valve and it duplicated the same symptoms........may be a bad pcv. i guess it may be a vacuum leak. i will check further tmw. I really appreciate u guys for not throwing the wolves at me

[cudaken]

Good Bello, now I wonder which cheesy faces Cooter will use? 

Ken 

[Bello]

Good Bello, now I wonder which cheesy faces Cooter will use? 

Ken 

Well today I checked for leaks and couldnt find any now its throwing P0300 random misfire smh

[maxwellwedge]

Hey - quit "Stalling" Cooter - We need answers!  

[Bello]

Hey - quit Stalling Cooter - We need answers! 

Cooter dont like me lol

[Bello]

Good Bello, now I wonder which cheesy faces Cooter will use? 

Ken 

Hey Cuda Ken I think I may have found something. I had the engine running and it started to stall so i pulled the purge valve tube off and put it slightly back in. the stalling stopped. I restarted and it didnt cut off. Everything sounded better. I am going to let it sit for a couple hours and try again. Could this be the issue? If so tell Cooter Im ready to take my walk of shame 

[c00nhunterjoe]

What are the specific code numbers. "Cat codes" means nothing. If its a 420 then its an efficiency code meaning the cats are cooked. However, before you go replacing them you need to fix the 300. If its missing, the cats are trying to burn that extra fuel and thats what cooked them. You also said the cats had broke up and come apart. How bad? make sure the muffler isnt full of cat material. But lets start with the bare basics and list all of the code numbers pulled from the pcm.

[Bello]

What are the specific code numbers. "Cat codes" means nothing. If its a 420 then its an efficiency code meaning the cats are cooked. However, before you go replacing them you need to fix the 300. If its missing, the cats are trying to burn that extra fuel and thats what cooked them. You also said the cats had broke up and come apart. How bad? make sure the muffler isnt full of cat material. But lets start with the bare basics and list all of the code numbers pulled from the pcm.

I was mistaken. the rattle i heard wasnt coming from the cats. i rechecked it. there is no cat code except the code reader i usded said catalyst but did not give a specific code. Here are the problems
code P0300 intermittently (if i clear it it doesnt come back unless the car gets to stumbling and stalling)
same with p1129 and 1128

the only codes that stay is P0031 P0037 P0051 P0057
I changed the o2 sensors but the codes remain

today I checked for vacuum leaks and found none then I played around with the purge valve tube right at the point of the car trying to stall and the idle became smooth. dont really know what to make of it or is that the problem

[c00nhunterjoe]

Those 4 codes are for each o2 sensor heater circuit. If they are not worki g it can throw the 1128 &1129 codes as a secondary fault. My money is on pcm or mouse chewed through the o2 harness but unlikely that it ate the 4 heater wires but not the rest. The 300 could be related due to the pcm not reading the upstream o2's properly

[Bello]

Those 4 codes are for each o2 sensor heater circuit. If they are not worki g it can throw the 1128 &1129 codes as a secondary fault. My money is on pcm or mouse chewed through the o2 harness but unlikely that it ate the 4 heater wires but not the rest. The 300 could be related due to the pcm not reading the upstream o2's properly

the thing is its a brand new pcm, the old one threw the same 02 codes. What do you think about what I said about the purge valve?

[c00nhunterjoe]

Youre missing thebpoint. Fix the hard faults. The o2 codes are the problem. If the pcm is good and thebo2's are good then you have a wiring problem.

[Bello]

Youre missing thebpoint. Fix the hard faults. The o2 codes are the problem. If the pcm is good and thebo2's are good then you have a wiring problem.

I understand and thanks. I am going to take it to a good buddy of mine who owns a shop and let him take over and check for a wiring problem, vacuum leaks and fuel delivery. I'm not a mechanic and done all I know to do and its still stalling etc. Thank you so much for your help. I hope I can get this resolved but until then I'll drive my 3.5

[Cooter]

And now you know why I say the things I do. You might get offended and frankly, I don't really care as the truth usually hurts, but you have to realize just how frustrating it really is to be fought at every turn when you don't understand, we were trying to help you.
I know what you were gonna say and do by the opening post. I do and deal with customers who think tge Internet is somehow gonna be replacement for experience....it is not. I'm about 80% sure I could fix your junk right here, but when you begin to think you have it all figured out....

The smart tech. Will tell you without a scanner looking at data, your pissing in the wind.

[Bello]

And now you know why I say the things I do. You might get offended and frankly, I don't really care as the truth usually hurts, but you have to realize just how frustrating it really is to be fought at every turn when you don't understand, we were trying to help you.
I know what you were gonna say and do by the opening post. I do and deal with customers who think tge Internet is somehow gonna be replacement for experience....it is not. I'm about 80% sure I could fix your junk right here, but when you begin to think you have it all figured out....

The smart tech. Will tell you without a scanner looking at data, your pissing in the wind.

Cooter I have no argument. you were right. Thanks. Im not a mechanic but I was trying to find a solution since the dealer could not figure it out after paying hundreds of dollars. I tested the voltage on the o2 sensor heater circuit coming from the pcm and there is no voltage. seems like a wiring prob like Coonhunter said but what do I know?

[69wannabe]

These late model vehicles have so many different sensors and controllers that read the sensors it does get confusing. Its always good to see the scanner say MISFIRE on # 4 cylinder. At least you know to check that certain cylinder for a problem. It's not always that easy tho, an excessive lean or rich condition can cause an 02 sensor code. 02 sensors do go bad tho. I have learned that chrysler products do not work well with parts store parts. I have several jeep grand cherokees and usually go to the dealer if I need sensors for them. The 02 sensors can be bought from amazon or rock auto and they are an NTK brand which is who makes these sensors for chrysler. Good luck with fixing your charger and let us know what fixes it!!

[Bello]

These late model vehicles have so many different sensors and controllers that read the sensors it does get confusing. Its always good to see the scanner say MISFIRE on # 4 cylinder. At least you know to check that certain cylinder for a problem. It's not always that easy tho, an excessive lean or rich condition can cause an 02 sensor code. 02 sensors do go bad tho. I have learned that chrysler products do not work well with parts store parts. I have several jeep grand cherokees and usually go to the dealer if I need sensors for them. The 02 sensors can be bought from amazon or rock auto and they are an NTK brand which is who makes these sensors for chrysler. Good luck with fixing your charger and let us know what fixes it!!

thanks for the input. I disconnected one of the 02 sensors and checked the voltage on the pcm side and there was no voltage. Im not sure what that means or if I need a new engine harness or what. I tried to trace the connectors back to the pcm and it seems that there are no middle connections. it seems like the wires are going straight from the pcm to the 02. I may be wrong IDK at a lost

[Bello]

question:

Today I tested the asd in the fuse box (This is where the 02 code problem originated when I jumped the asd) . I removed the asd and tested where the asd plugs into (once with the key in the off position and once when key was removed from ignition) and it still had voltage (12v). Am I correct in saying that it should be off with no voltage when the key is in the off position or removed from ignition or am I wrong?

[Cooter]

ONE MORE TIME......SCANNER AND LOOK AT DATA.... somethings f'in with your fuel mixture causing the o2 sensors to go all the way to full lean or rich.
O2 codes don't mean o2 is bad ness. Without a scanner like the Snap On Modis, your screwed today.

[Bello]

ONE MORE TIME......SCANNER AND LOOK AT DATA.... somethings f'in with your fuel mixture causing the o2 sensors to go all the way to full lean or rich.
O2 codes don't mean o2 is bad ness. Without a scanner like the Snap On Modis, your screwed today.

Cooter thats the problem. they already did that and couldnt find the problem. First they said it was the jet chip so they removed it. then they said it was the pcm then they replaced it and car still not fixed. I spent money on nothing. That's why I began to research it myself. Im going to take it to my buddy and see if he can find it, if not F it, I'll buy a chevy

[c00nhunterjoe]

The hard faults are the heater circuits on all 4 o2 sensors. Has nothing to do with a lean/rich condition. The 2 secondary codes that pop up are directly related to the lack of heater operation.

Did the new pcm you installed get programmed by a mopar dealer?

[Bello]

The hard faults are the heater circuits on all 4 o2 sensors. Has nothing to do with a lean/rich condition. The 2 secondary codes that pop up are directly related to the lack of heater operation.

Did the new pcm you installed get programmed by a mopar dealer?

The new pcm came preprogrammed according to my VIN. I just sent out for a replacement just incase this one is damaged. I understand that the hard faults (o2 sensors) are the problem and need to be fixed. I need to figure out whats causing the low circuit whether its a broken wire somewhere or what since two PCMs gave the same codes. Nobody I took it too could figure it out. for all four to be throwing codes has to be something

[Bello]

UPDATE:

the problem has been fixed.

turns out the bosch sensors I bought and my charger did not get along so I bought 4 OEM sensors and the codes and CEL went away. the car no longer sputters and stalls on start up. Thanks you guys for all your input. I have learned alot

[cudaken]

 

[69wannabe]

I had the same problem with one of my jeep grand cherokee's like I posted earlier, the mopar's only like mopar sensor's which I learned the hard way too!! I had tried a bosh sensor also and had to replace it with an NTK sensor a week later. From what I have been told the mopar sensor's have alot tighter range than the aftermarket sensors sold at your local parts store. Tried a crankshaft sensor for my niece's jeep from the parts store and it started throwing all kind of trouble codes that wasn't there before. Went to dealer and bought a mopar sensor and put it on there and it was fine with no codes at all after that. I'm sure you see this alot Cooter since you work on late model cars on a daily basis from what i've read on here.

[Bello]

I had the same problem with one of my jeep grand cherokee's like I posted earlier, the mopar's only like mopar sensor's which I learned the hard way too!! I had tried a bosh sensor also and had to replace it with an NTK sensor a week later. From what I have been told the mopar sensor's have alot tighter range than the aftermarket sensors sold at your local parts store. Tried a crankshaft sensor for my niece's jeep from the parts store and it started throwing all kind of trouble codes that wasn't there before. Went to dealer and bought a mopar sensor and put it on there and it was fine with no codes at all after that. I'm sure you see this alot Cooter since you work on late model cars on a daily basis from what i've read on here.

this is what i learned from another forum "Turns out that the Bosch sensors were too slow heating up and would cause the transition from open loop to closed loop to be delayed, or not happen at all due to the codes being set. The heat up threshold is ~40 seconds. More than 40 seconds would set a DTC and not allow the fuel system to switch over from open loop to closed loop until much later (or not at all) than the PCM required. "

so NTk heats up in about 7-8 seconds from what i researched. I put this to a test and noticed that with the bosch sensors the car wud sputter then stall right after start up (about a min or so), when I put NTK, no stalling at all. been a few days with no codes and no problems at all.

[69wannabe]

I had the same problem with one of my jeep grand cherokee's like I posted earlier, the mopar's only like mopar sensor's which I learned the hard way too!! I had tried a bosh sensor also and had to replace it with an NTK sensor a week later. From what I have been told the mopar sensor's have alot tighter range than the aftermarket sensors sold at your local parts store. Tried a crankshaft sensor for my niece's jeep from the parts store and it started throwing all kind of trouble codes that wasn't there before. Went to dealer and bought a mopar sensor and put it on there and it was fine with no codes at all after that. I'm sure you see this alot Cooter since you work on late model cars on a daily basis from what i've read on here.

this is what i learned from another forum "Turns out that the Bosch sensors were too slow heating up and would cause the transition from open loop to closed loop to be delayed, or not happen at all due to the codes being set. The heat up threshold is ~40 seconds. More than 40 seconds would set a DTC and not allow the fuel system to switch over from open loop to closed loop until much later (or not at all) than the PCM required. "

so NTk heats up in about 7-8 seconds from what i researched. I put this to a test and noticed that with the bosch sensors the car wud sputter then stall right after start up (about a min or so), when I put NTK, no stalling at all. been a few days with no codes and no problems at all.

I didn't really research the bosh sensors but when I put the NTK sensor on my daughters jeep it was fixed!!! I hate knowing when I got a bad sensor on my late model chrysler product that I have to find a mopar part to fix it with but i'd rather do it once and be done with it. Just glad you got it fixed and no more sputtering!

[Bello]

I had the same problem with one of my jeep grand cherokee's like I posted earlier, the mopar's only like mopar sensor's which I learned the hard way too!! I had tried a bosh sensor also and had to replace it with an NTK sensor a week later. From what I have been told the mopar sensor's have alot tighter range than the aftermarket sensors sold at your local parts store. Tried a crankshaft sensor for my niece's jeep from the parts store and it started throwing all kind of trouble codes that wasn't there before. Went to dealer and bought a mopar sensor and put it on there and it was fine with no codes at all after that. I'm sure you see this alot Cooter since you work on late model cars on a daily basis from what i've read on here.

this is what i learned from another forum "Turns out that the Bosch sensors were too slow heating up and would cause the transition from open loop to closed loop to be delayed, or not happen at all due to the codes being set. The heat up threshold is ~40 seconds. More than 40 seconds would set a DTC and not allow the fuel system to switch over from open loop to closed loop until much later (or not at all) than the PCM required. "

so NTk heats up in about 7-8 seconds from what i researched. I put this to a test and noticed that with the bosch sensors the car wud sputter then stall right after start up (about a min or so), when I put NTK, no stalling at all. been a few days with no codes and no problems at all.

I didn't really research the bosh sensors but when I put the NTK sensor on my daughters jeep it was fixed!!! I hate knowing when I got a bad sensor on my late model chrysler product that I have to find a mopar part to fix it with but i'd rather do it once and be done with it. Just glad you got it fixed and no more sputtering!

im glad too. took a while and a few headaches but im glad i did research it because the dealer could not figure it out...saved me alot of money

[69wannabe]

I am surprised that your dealer didn't tell you about using only mopar parts on your charger. The guys I deal with at my local dealer are friend's of mine and very helpful with advise!! I have a friend that is a mechanic and a friend in the parts dept. too. When I was having trouble with the jeep the parts guy was the one that told me about the aftermarket sensors being a problem on chrylser products. I bought my NTK sensor from rock auto and it was very reasonable from there too. Amazon sells alot of these NTK sensors and actual mopar parts too!!

[Bello]

I am surprised that your dealer didn't tell you about using only mopar parts on your charger. The guys I deal with at my local dealer are friend's of mine and very helpful with advise!! I have a friend that is a mechanic and a friend in the parts dept. too. When I was having trouble with the jeep the parts guy was the one that told me about the aftermarket sensors being a problem on chrylser products. I bought my NTK sensor from rock auto and it was very reasonable from there too. Amazon sells alot of these NTK sensors and actual mopar parts too!!

The dealer told me everything but that. They couldn't even identify the problem. That is why I began researching it myself. Took awhile but glad I did

[Cooter]

Remember, just because the tech at the dealer wears a Mopar shirt, dont mean he/she wasn't working for Wally world last year.
techs get paid commission and many times, no customer wants to pay for the actual time involved in the diagnosis process.
Sometimes, contrary to popular belief, there really is no magic computer that will just tell you everything you need, why you need it, and how to put it on.

Sometimes it takes HOURS of diagnosis time just to find one bad wire. It seems this is now the usual response....
"What? Your gonna charge me how much? Just for one bad wire??"

It aint the monkey that puts the new sensors on your car, its the monkey that tells you WHY you need them....

[Bello]

Remember, just because the tech at the dealer wears a Mopar shirt, dont mean he/she wasn't working for Wally world last year.
techs get paid commission and many times, no customer wants to pay for the actual time involved in the diagnosis process.
Sometimes, contrary to popular belief, there really is no magic computer that will just tell you everything you need, why you need it, and how to put it on.

Sometimes it takes HOURS of diagnosis time just to find one bad wire. It seems this is now the usual response....
"What? Your gonna charge me how much? Just for one bad wire??"

It aint the monkey that puts the new sensors on your car, its the monkey that tells you WHY you need them....

Indeed words of wisdom, I will take with me when I return to mars. Earth is too complicated lol. Thanks Cooter