First Open Source Car

[hatersaurusrex]

Anyone else seen this thing?   Never thought crowdsourcing would be applicable to cars.   Wonder how long before 3D printing + open source build packages will allow someone do customize and manufacture their own car right at the dealer, or even better - spare parts.

http://jalopnik.com/5398864/local-motors-rally-fighter-the-first+ever-creative-commons-car

[JB400]

Interesting concept, but I don't see it catching on.  I doubt that the car manufacturers would be interested in sharing their car parts and let them be put on a  brand new, multi brand car without a large chunk of change upfront.

However, the article claims this thing is like a P51?  I don't see anything that reminds me of a P51

[Ghoste]

Nor I, looks more like something from a post apocolyptic video game.

[tan top]

diesel engine 

[Troy]

I checked those out a while back. Neat concept. Probably going nowhere (in my opinion but I'm often wrong when it comes to thinking like the masses).

Troy

[Mike DC]

 
It makes a suspicious amount of sense.  So it probably won't catch on.

[Troy]

 
It makes a suspicious amount of sense.  So it probably won't catch on.

Troy

[hatersaurusrex]

Interesting concept, but I don't see it catching on.  I doubt that the car manufacturers would be interested in sharing their car parts and let them be put on a  brand new, multi brand car without a large chunk of change upfront.

However, the article claims this thing is like a P51?  I don't see anything that reminds me of a P51

The car manufacturers wouldn't even need to be in the loop - these parts were all designed by individuals.  It's like the Linux operating system, but applied to a car.   With Linux, a few companies said 'We can't own the patents, but we can sell support' and thus you have companies like RedHat and Suse and Ubuntu.  They make money helping to maintain the code and supporting the user base - at cost.    The OS itself is free and open and they're paid to be experts.

Interesting to think if that model could be applied successfully to cars.   A vendor opens up shop with some 3d printing and fabbing equipment, and can build a car from scratch out of a pile of plastic and metal in a few days, without large manufacturing overhead and the need to be based in an area with satellite industries to support production.  Odds are he'd keep most common parts or even rolling chassis in stock ready to build to the customer's specs.  You pick the modular options you want, and he charges you for the support - a warranty really - and keeps spare parts in stock.   A big advantage is no need to pre-build and project production for models - they could be made literally on-demand.    Modifications?  "Hey man, I found this mod on the internet I want you to build into my car before you paint it" or something similar.

Repro parts?  No worries, we have the blueprint and can always build NOS parts from scratch.  No need to pre-build 10-15 years of NOS, after which the cars die off.  As for the motor?  S&S has proven in the motorcycle world that a generic engine manufacturer can serve the needs of custom builders while maintaining a standard product.   Worn out?  No worries, everything is modular, we can build you an NOS one or you can upgrade.    Just like with Linux, the users push the development cycle, not a company with bottom lines.

Ever wonder why Microsoft products are so buggy?  It's because they HAVE to release a new product every 3 years to keep revenue coming in.  They release unfinished/untested code.   Linux doesn't have to do that.  Updates come out when they're ready, and they're built for the long haul.

It's not unthinkable, just not anything that will happen soon.  

[FJMG]

This 3d printing is very intriguing stuff and the cost has dramatically reduced over the last couple years. Wait till they are in all the parts stores; need an oem part, just print it!
In our local university they printed a scale model of a bridge, including fasteners and scaling strength of materials. This model can then be tested in "as-built" state.
Wait till the lawyers sort out the human aspect, they have already printed a kidney!
VERY thought provoking stuff!

[Troy]

And much like Linux (in earlier years) the visual design and "polish" is lacking. Linux is popular for many reasons but one of the primary reasons is price (free!). I don't want to copy/paste but there are some very good comments on the bottom right of that article. One mentions "design by committee" which works well for machines and software but often very disjointed when it comes to visuals. Also, another comment is that creating an off road vehicle through a group effort by hundreds/thousands of designers (mostly low experience) isn't likely as good or efficient as paying one off road professional.

They aren't manufacturing every piece of they vehicle. They ARE sourcing parts from other manufacturers. And the cost isn't that cheap! The car shown lists for around $50k and you have to build it! (In their facility of course.) If you design a car like the big manufacturers using 3rd party suppliers for things like transmissions, brakes, etc. then I believe you can control costs while getting parts that have been proven on a large scale. Otherwise, you're at the mercy of the dealer networks buying parts over the counter OR scrounging through the Pick-a-Part yards like old school hot rodders. In the case of new parts, realize that the manufacturers only make so many "replacement" parts so you can't have a popular design without depleting your supply.

Troy

[Ghoste]

Wouldn't it have to meet federal regulations?  Who pays for the crash testing etc?

[Troy]

Wouldn't it have to meet federal regulations?  Who pays for the crash testing etc?

Since it isn't technically a newly manufactured vehicle, every state is different when it comes to "component"/"self built"/kit cars. However, emissions typically have to meet whatever the car gets titled as - which is usually whatever the biggest piece is (typically engine or frame).

I'm editing my post to include a link to the FAQ that answers these questions:
http://localmotors.com/rallyfighter/frequently-asked-questions/

Also, the newest specs call for a GM LS3 E-Rod 376ci all aluminum V8 and GM T400 3 speed transmission. A supercharger is available as is either the GM T400 or 4L85E transmission. Bumpers are $3,600 (which, I assume, are required in most states to make it street legal).

Also found this in a newer article: "The build takes about six days and costs approximately $99,900, according to Local Motors."
http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/rally-fighter-became-one-city-family-daily-driver-155919243.html

You have to spend 6 days in their factory building your car. Hotel, meals, tools, and driving instruction are included in the price.

Troy

[FJMG]

Wouldn't it have to meet federal regulations?  Who pays for the crash testing etc?

The "victim".

[Ghoste]

 

[Mike DC]

 
You could assemble most of a low-buck generic automobile out of a dirt track racing catalog right now.  It would probably come out a whole lot more cheap/practical than this deal is going to be for a while.

[Troy]

 
You could assemble most of a low-buck generic automobile out of a dirt track racing catalog right now.  It would probably come out a whole lot more cheap/practical than this deal is going to be for a while.

You're not kidding! I was searching for something one day and came across a dirt track vendor catalog. Everything you could ever need in all sorts of sizes and configurations. And it's all new parts! I was thinking about how much time I could save by not having to remove rust and broken fasteners...

Troy

[Mike DC]

   
Yeah, it's amazing.  It's like paying Pick & Pull junkyard prices for brand new stuff shipped to your door in a box. 

Mass production and not redesigning stuff for decades .  . . it's a beautiful combination.  It really rams home the point that the vast majority of the costs of modern vehicles are in the design stage.  There is really no reason that cars & trucks need to cost what they all do.  They could cost 1/4th as much if we would all stop demanding so much from them in every possible way.         

[Ghoste]

There have been governments that tried generic, mass produced "people's cars" but I'm not sure I'd like one.

[JB400]

There have been governments that tried generic, mass produced "people's cars" but I'm not sure I'd like one.

Henry Ford tried the same thing.  It would have bit him in the butt if it wasn't for his son.

[Ghoste]

Yeah, he was a notoriously stubborn man.

[Mike DC]

  
It doesn't need to be a Cold-War Commie Iron-Curtain "people's car" just to be something cheaper & more practical than our current options.  


Today the OEMs render cars far more expensive than they need to be.  They each all build their own bodies, interiors, chassis, and much of the drivetrain.  They change it constantly just for the sake of changing it.  They custom-tailor every inch of every part on every car to wring out every last ounce of everything:  Weight, power, aero, MPG, smoothness, cheapness, crashworthy, interior room, etc.  


Its the same principle with everything else technical, they expend most of the effort getting the last bit of the gains.  Well that "most of the effort" includes most of the financial cost.  (Not to mention repair/maintenance headaches).  Its commonly known that the majority of the cost of modern cars is expended in the design stage.  The materials & assy combined amount to way less than half of it.

 
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But good luck trying to convince modern American car buyers to accept something that offers less in every category, no matter how much cheaper & more practical it is to run.

[Ghoste]

Thats the beauty of living in a free market with competition and choice though.  If the American people want more and can afford it then its their choice to own such.  There are cars out there that are cheap and offer less but they don't sell well because its not what we want.

[Troy]

Thats the beauty of living in a free market with competition and choice though.  If the American people want more and can afford it then its their choice to own such.  There are cars out there that are cheap and offer less but they don't sell well because its not what we want.

Exactly. Even if people know they could "get by" with the basics, no one wants to. This is why the government needs to do your thinking for you and legislate what you're allowed to buy. Save us from ourselves!

Even this car comes standard with GPS navigation, A/C, etc. as well as custom colors (it's vinyl dye wrap so you can get anything for no extra cost - except paint). You can, of course, get a nicer interior, leather seats, bumpers, etc. if you want to pay more. Heck, if you open your wallet the sky is the limit for this thing! Building your own, personalized car is one of the bonuses to this approach - and might be the best reason for its success. Sure, they could force everyone to take exactly what the designers have deemed best but I bet they wouldn't sell a single one at $50-100k!

I build software for a living. In the past, about 80% of our budget went to making stuff to make the user say "wow" - not the stuff that actually made it do anything useful (ie work). I hated it! We've dropped that to about 20% at my current company but we sort of have a monopoly on our audience and a guaranteed customer base. They have no choice but to buy it and like it - and they resent us for it all the time.

Troy

[hatersaurusrex]

Thats the beauty of living in a free market with competition and choice though.  If the American people want more and can afford it then its their choice to own such.  There are cars out there that are cheap and offer less but they don't sell well because its not what we want.

Exactly. Even if people know they could "get by" with the basics, no one wants to. This is why the government needs to do your thinking for you and legislate what you're allowed to buy. Save us from ourselves!

Even this car comes standard with GPS navigation, A/C, etc. as well as custom colors (it's vinyl dye wrap so you can get anything for no extra cost - except paint). You can, of course, get a nicer interior, leather seats, bumpers, etc. if you want to pay more. Heck, if you open your wallet the sky is the limit for this thing! Building your own, personalized car is one of the bonuses to this approach - and might be the best reason for its success. Sure, they could force everyone to take exactly what the designers have deemed best but I bet they wouldn't sell a single one at $50-100k!

I build software for a living. In the past, about 80% of our budget went to making stuff to make the user say "wow" - not the stuff that actually made it do anything useful (ie work). I hated it! We've dropped that to about 20% at my current company but we sort of have a monopoly on our audience and a guaranteed customer base. They have no choice but to buy it and like it - and they resent us for it all the time.

Troy

Wait, you work for Oracle???

[Ghoste]

Thats the prophet from the Matrix, right

[hatersaurusrex]

Yes, but it's also a software company with its head wired squarely to its ass.