Solid hydraulic roller cam shaft

[fy469rtse]

Has anyone tried or used the new steel compatible to billit, instead of the bronze material ?
Repriming my oil system after sitting quiet a while, took oil pump shaft out and didn't like the look of the bronze gear,
Half a dozen pulls at most on the dyno and showing wear already ?

[Challenger340]

No such thing as a "Solid Hydraulic Roller Camshaft"

You either have a "SOLID" Roller Camshaft(2 types)
or,
You have a "HYDRAULIC" Roller Camshaft

Solid Roller Camshafts come in 2 types;
"Race".... Steel BILLET = Bronze Dizzy Gear
"Street".... Steel Alloy = use Sintered iron Dizzy Gear
or
Hydraulic Roller Camshafts.... Steel Alloy = use Sintered Iron Dizzy Gear.

Using the softer Bronze Dizzy Gear on a Softer "Street" Solid Roller, or "Hydraulic" Roller Alloy Camshaft, while it can technically be done, is NOT recommended for longevity over time in a street driven environment, at least not that I know of ?
"Best" for these Camshafts is the sintered iron dizzy gear, while offers longevity in the street driven environment.

Interesting to note; is that if the Block Tower Bushing is sloppy, the softer Bronze Gear will go away VERY quickly !

[fy469rtse]

Thanks for replying, solid roller from comp, new bush , no slop ,
I' m used to seeing steel gears and not ready for the appearance of the bronze, I hope your right and that's just run in wear, comp CRB3 XR274r-10,
Read on a couple of sits, mainly Ferd guys talking about Melonized gear to use with billit cams instead of the bronze

[fy469rtse]

It's a solid , did the tittle to get attention , post this regularly but no replys,
Comps recommend hardened or Melonized, they refer to the hardened as both Melonized or composite, have checked again tonight ,visable wear to gear and play, no slop or play in bush

[Challenger340]

Thanks for replying, solid roller from comp, new bush , no slop ,
I' m used to seeing steel gears and not ready for the appearance of the bronze, I hope your right and that's just run in wear, comp CRB3 XR274r-10,
Read on a couple of sits, mainly Ferd guys talking about Melonized gear to use with billit cams instead of the bronze

The XR274R-10 in the CompCams catalog is a "Street" Roller Camshaft, most probably Steel Alloy, NOT Billet ?? But you should call Comp to be sure.
Bronze Gears are not required on the Alloy Cams, the Sintered Iron Gears offering far better longevity over time in the "Street" driven intended purpose of that particular Cam.
While a softer Bronze Gear CAN be used, they don't offer the same longevity over time in a street driven environment.

[Challenger340]

It's a solid , did the tittle to get attention , post this regularly but no replys,
Comps recommend hardened or Melonized, they refer to the hardened as both Melonized or composite, have checked again tonight ,visable wear to gear and play, no slop or play in bush

To be honest,
I just haven't kept up with the different "newer" dizzy gear alloys out there... Powdered Metal, Polymers, Coatings... all French to me ?
because,
I stick with what works for me ? and BB Mopars haven't changed much ?

I see a BILLET "Race" Profile Roller Cam I default to a Bronze Gear... never had a problem in over 30 years building Drag Engines ?
I see a Solid Roller "Street" type Camshaft, from an "Alloy" Blank, I use a Powdered/ Sintered Iron gear.... no problems ?
I see a Hydraulic Roller Camshaft, same Alloy Blank... same Powdered/Sintered Iron Gear... no problems ?

I guess the Bronze Gears CAN be used on the Softer Cams as well ? I haven't done it, and I don't do it for "Street" driven Engines.... just because I have seen premature wear on others.... that have tried ?

[fy469rtse]

Good advice, have emailed them to just confirm material used for cam blank, if alloy sintered iron gear sounds good,
Was surprised at the amount wear to bronze gear with what would be considered break in,I know it's a lot of stress on engine being new and tight, but wasn't expecting to have to look at gear for at least a few hundred miles, but I'm glad I checked it

[Challenger340]

Good advice, have emailed them to just confirm material used for cam blank, if alloy sintered iron gear sounds good,
Was surprised at the amount wear to bronze gear with what would be considered break in,I know it's a lot of stress on engine being new and tight, but wasn't expecting to have to look at gear for at least a few hundred miles, but I'm glad I checked it

Something else to check with the "Solid" Roller Street Cam... that could account for the premature "wear"... if THAT is what you feel you are seeing ?
How much Cam End thrust is present ?
How is it being controlled ?

* You may have to back the Shafts off completely to get the V/Spring Load off the Lifters to check the cam end thrust... .010" to .012" is puss, maybe up to .015" plus a bit.
If I start seeing .025" to .030", I get a little antsy on a street deal ?
IMO, a Cast Aluminum Cover, Cloyes Hex-A-Just T/Chain & Gears, then "set" the cam Thrust Bushing to "fit", has been about the best "cheap" setup for us ?
One thing is for sure...
The factory "Tin" timing cover has too much Flex in it to be used IMO, to control Cam End-Thrust adequately under RUNNING conditions, depending upon how true to perpendicular the Lifter Bores are drilled to the Bam Bore on any given Block.... some are worse than others, NONE are great ?  

[fy469rtse]

Thought of that too, maybe thrust on the cam shaft was an issue, gear drive with shimmed thrust button, that was set to recommend end play, nothing has changed,
My mistake it looks like by using the bronze gear at build stage, not that big of cam shaft, serious street version.

[firefighter3931]

FY469 ;

What timing cover are you using ? If using a stock cover.... that can be a problem because they will flex and the endplay will change which will aggrivate/accelerate bronze gear wear. I've seen guys weld a small plate on the timing cover as a shim to stiffen up the sheet metal and it works. The plate needs to be just thick enough to make up the space between the timing cover and the back of the waterpump housing.

Basicly you're using the waterpump housing to provide additional support for the sheet metal timing cover. Some guys will opt for a cast aluminum timing cover and those work very good as well. 

On mine we used a sheet metal 440Source timing cover which is quite a bit thicker than the OEM piece and it does not flex whatsoever. Last time i checked the bronze gear looked perfect. 

Just something else to consider  and look at    if the bronze gear is showing some premature wear 




Ron

[Cooter]

Great info guys...learning a lot I didn't know in this thread.

[BSB67]

I shoot for 0.003" to 0.005" endplay and back the TC cover with the waterpump and welded plate.  Have not had an issue with excessive wear.

[fy469rtse]

Ron , guys yes running milodon gear drive, cast alloy so hopefully no flex there, comps replied, yes billet cam stock,
Once I saw the wear started checking everything,end play on cam as I set it. Took the cover off and checked clearance to cover , have gone over everything repeatedly
I know cam is a solid roller, not that big of lift so didn't expect to see that sort wear,
Ron your thoughts on running a composite gear instead of the bronze, have heard good reports but not had any experience with them myself.
Differances between the terms Melonized and composite ?
Could running a high volume oil pump be putting additional stress, the only reason I have ran this is for increased volume of oil at the top end of engine, solids not known for there ability to supply enough oil at idle,
Side note engine has not spent any time at what you guys would consider normal idle, all dyno time nothing under 1500 ,

[fy469rtse]

Ok got some answers, bronze is seen as the sacrifitial lamb , some cams worse than others, spoke to a lot of guys over here running rollers,
One guy told me one of his recent builds was a bitch on the gears, wore out a couple in quick succession and on the third one settled down and he is now happy with its longevity,
So have changed it out, and have ordered a third, just to have on hand, have dumped the break in oil and getting ready for the next stage,
Will post on how this goes with an update not too much later I hope
The warning here to any one running billet rollers, inspect and re inspect,
So is it the machining on the gear to cam, needs to run in , lapping in was one of the terms one of the guys I spoke to,
His advice was not to go composite yet, only as a last resort, not that good yet and can break unexpectedly