Dyno Run results on my car ; Stockish 68 Charger R/T 440

[Bob T]

Had a dyno run done yesterday, the guy is a good operator and was able to find another 45 rwhp in there which was a great result.
I knew it had a bit of a cam in it, but it was unknown what it was or how it performed. I'd fitted a new Rev-N-Nator ignition system last month but the engine just was'nt making the power that I thought it should. I had a run at the drags the other month, but it was a dissapointing 15.1 best, it will be better now  

The settings if anyone was interested are;
440 with stock heads, 727, 3.23, Holley 750 vac sec, 2'' Headers by Doug, Torker manifold, new Accel dizzy & Rev N Nator, NGK BP5 S . No vac advance
15' initial ( I know its well below the 18 -22' that Ron and co usually recommend, but our gas is only 95 and I believe it is rated lower than American octane 95)
33' total, 800rpm idle, 11'' vaccum in drive at idle, 4.5 power valve, m/jet 72, yellow sec spring

Max power was 280.79 at 4450 rpm
Max Torque was 353.41 at 3650 rpm
Losses  at 5120 rpm were 168hp making 252 for a total of 420hp at the crank.
Fairly happy with the result, more for the fact that it is making all the power that it can now.

I did a clip as well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO8rUeZcRi8


(Looks sideways at better head and cam packages now    )

[68X426]

Kelvin, that's a fine way to start off the new year.  

Are you going to hunt for more horses (new heads) or just keep it as is?

[BSB67]

Nice.  Thanks for sharing.  I bet your fun meter was pegged.

So, what was your mph with that 15.1 et?, and specifically what was done to gain 45 hp?  Going back to the track soon?  Keep us posted.

[Bob T]

Kelvin, that's a fine way to start off the new year.  

Are you going to hunt for more horses (new heads) or just keep it as is?

Hell Yes     the Hemi upgrade you mean??  

A good 440 head and cam package is on the wishlist Dan, but I have just brought another new guitar and that was   a lot, probably around the price of heads anyway, so the fun coupons are having that exhausted feel about them at the moment.

One of the good things on D.C. is the amount of info on performance upgrades and advice too, it has helped me out immensely.

[Bob T]

Nice.  Thanks for sharing.  I bet your fun meter was pegged.

So, what was your mph with that 15.1 et?, and specifically what was done to gain 45 hp?  Going back to the track soon?  Keep us posted.

Fun meter was pegged haha, I seem to remember the mph was 94, I was hoping to get into the midlow 14 - high 13's but not that day.
Just carb tuning mainly for the result and changed the power valve too, although, we did find the kickdown lever was restricting the wide open throttle slightly as well.
The next drag day will be Feb 24 unless I head down to a night drag, maybe I will, I'm quite keen to see what it will do now.

[myk]

45 rwhp; can you feel that difference?  I'd imagine that's a big kick in the pants...

[Bob T]

45 rwhp; can you feel that difference?  I'd imagine that's a big kick in the pants...

Yes, more in the mid upper range, a lot more pull/torque , definitely noticable 

[fy469rtse]

Bob , I think that's one of your better photo's of the girl, need to line that front bumper up , mainly at the sides bob with the two side l brackets unless there missing,

[1974dodgecharger]

Bob , I think that's one of your better photo's of the girl, need to line that front bumper up , mainly at the sides bob with the two side l brackets unless there missing,

heh, I think your right he is missing the side supports with grill bolts.

[tan top]

 

[Cooter]

 

[Bob T]

Bob , I think that's one of your better photo's of the girl, need to line that front bumper up , mainly at the sides bob with the two side l brackets unless there missing,

heh, I think your right he is missing the side supports with grill bolts.

Correct on both counts, but the bumper has a small twist in it, more pronounced on the pas side without a bracket to restrain it, I should really see if I can get hold of one from somewhere. And it always stands out   

[RECHRGD]

Bob, how is that dyno able to calculate drivetrain loss?  168 hp seems excessive.

[Cooter]

I know different chassis dynos sometimes read different. Some calculate for more loss than parasitic drivetrain loss.
Some high stall converters REALLY mess with your "At the feet" numbers, along with huge (tall) rear tires.

[fy469rtse]

Bob AMD make those brackets for the sides , sorry mate to pick on it, when your cars such a high quality little things stand out, with the side brackets you will be able to get the twist out of it by force using the brackets, never had a front bumper that didn't need some manipulation,
I drive myself crazy being critical of everything I have done , wishing I could go back and redo or do better metal work

[Bob T]

I know different chassis dynos sometimes read different. Some calculate for more loss than parasitic drivetrain loss.
Some high stall converters REALLY mess with your "At the feet" numbers, along with huge (tall) rear tires.

Bob, how is that dyno able to calculate drivetrain loss?  168 hp seems excessive.

Hey, I totally agree, it does seem high, I would've thought the loss would remain a constant ratio but I can only go with what the operator told me - he has built a lot of big hp engines for race boats and race cars and has a lot of experience to draw on.
I'm still not completely convinced the losses are that high, and hey, I'm definitely no expert.
Thats what the print out said .
The machine is a Dynojet, and the the stall is stock Cooter, well as far as I know .
I also think the heavy Magnums 15 x 10 also contribute to the losses.

What I forgot to do and I'm kicking myself now, is to do a pull as it is and then change out my Rev N Nator with the stock orange Chrysler unit to see what the gain was. Maybe next time

The a/f stayed fairly stable so it looks like the carb is fine.
Its been quite interesting just seeing what power it makes and thanks for your comments and tips Guys

[Bob T]

Bob AMD make those brackets for the sides , sorry mate to pick on it, when your cars such a high quality little things stand out, with the side brackets you will be able to get the twist out of it by force using the brackets, never had a front bumper that didn't need some manipulation,
I drive myself crazy being critical of everything I have done , wishing I could go back and redo or do better metal work

Hey mate ,no prob, I don't take offense easily
I didn't know they were available and hadn't made it a priority either, but yeah we did a mag shoot last year and it stood out like dogs balls , well to me at least anyway, I will look at doing something about it 

[RECHRGD]

I know different chassis dynos sometimes read different. Some calculate for more loss than parasitic drivetrain loss.
Some high stall converters REALLY mess with your "At the feet" numbers, along with huge (tall) rear tires.

Bob, how is that dyno able to calculate drivetrain loss?  168 hp seems excessive.

Hey, I totally agree, it does seem high, I would've thought the loss would remain a constant ratio but I can only go with what the operator told me - he has built a lot of big hp engines for race boats and race cars and has a lot of experience to draw on.
I'm still not completely convinced the losses are that high, and hey, I'm definitely no expert.
Thats what the print out said .
The machine is a Dynojet, and the the stall is stock Cooter, well as far as I know .
I also think the heavy Magnums 15 x 10 also contribute to the losses.

What I forgot to do and I'm kicking myself now, is to do a pull as it is and then change out my Rev N Nator with the stock orange Chrysler unit to see what the gain was. Maybe next time

The a/f stayed fairly stable so it looks like the carb is fine.
Its been quite interesting just seeing what power it makes and thanks for your comments and tips Guys

I had always been under the impression that drivetrain loss was in the 20% range with an automatic trans.  In simplistic terms your Dyno is showing a 1.5 multiplication factor from the wheel numbers to flywheel hp.  I thought that to be ridiculous until finding that most stock 440/375 magnum cars put down around 250 hp at the wheels.  250X1.5=375, hmmmm.  That would put my combo at just under 500hp at the flywheel and I never thought I was anywhere near that.

[Cooter]

20% with stick shift, and around 30-35% for auto depending on stall...
Did you know it takes an extra 30 hp just to turn a Dana 60?

[RECHRGD]

So a stick shift car with a Dana gives up how much hp compared to one with a 8 3/4?

[Cooter]

Again, all these are estimates at best. But roughly an automatc Dana car should see about 40% loss.

[War wagon]

I know different chassis dynos sometimes read different. Some calculate for more loss than parasitic drivetrain loss.
Some high stall converters REALLY mess with your "At the feet" numbers, along with huge (tall) rear tires.

Very true , speaking from experience I can tell you it has a lot to do with the operator and how they control the settings. Results can vary depending on Dyno settings.
So many factors
Dyno jet is one of the Highest reading dyno's, in my experience either Dyno dynamics or mustang dyno's give the most accurate results.

To the original poster Congrats on your results, a well tuned car is a lot more fun to drive!!
I plan on putting mine on the Dyno in the next year or two once it's transformation is complete.
Thanks for sharing your results

[myk]

40%?  That sucks!

[1974dodgecharger]

Heh, bobs got 250 something with 440 makes me thinkin I got 120hp with my 383, ghee. Im able to fish tail with 14inch magnums but now cant with 20s back there only spin my tires up to 3rd gear and can smell them in car.   

[Cooter]

Well to be fair here, spinning tures doesn't require as much HP as it does TORQUE.
This is why I lol when I see a musclecar posted on FB with 1000 HP and low profile tires.
Low profile tires have soft rubber, but a hard carcass. Neither on the street, require mych torque to blow them away.

Now, wanna see just how much loss you have? Bolt on a set of uber sticky tires and zip it up to tg e track.

[1974dodgecharger]

still makes me wonder and im waiting anxiously to see what I get on the 19ths.  I figure a 440 should get 350hp easily and at least 400 plus ft-tq unless he has a 73 year 440 or above in his car.

[Bob T]

Well to be fair here, spinning tures doesn't require as much HP as it does TORQUE.
This is why I lol when I see a musclecar posted on FB with 1000 HP and low profile tires.
Low profile tires have soft rubber, but a hard carcass. Neither on the street, require mych torque to blow them away.

Now, wanna see just how much loss you have? Bolt on a set of uber sticky tires and zip it up to tg e track.

True enough Cooter, but sticky tyres is when you see how the diff or drive train handles it when the power comes on. I'd rather haze the BFG's than bust some hardware.

I wonder how it would go on the dyno with alloy wheels and low profile tyres, probably a small increase for sure, but, since its not my usual wheel/tyres package it is pointless to b.s. the numbers with "on the day" changes or race gas..

[Bob T]

still makes me wonder and im waiting anxiously to see what I get on the 19ths.  I figure a 440 should get 350hp easily and at least 400 plus ft-tq unless he has a 73 year 440 or above in his car.

Ahh the wait   Change out your plugs and do all the usual stuff you can ahead of time 74, I also put an inline fuel pressure guage on to check the pump was delivering. Ron suggested 7lb all the way through, I got around 6.5lb steady, was just one more thing to tick off.
A mate of mine made 269rwhp with his 383 68 Charger and did a 13.7 best, I'm hoping to dip into 13's but might be a struggle with the 3.23, what's in yours?

[1974dodgecharger]

fuel pressure guage, check!!!  Thx bob will get new plugs next week and go from there....

[Cooter]

Numbers at the feet always garner "somethings wrong with your dyno" type responses.

[1974dodgecharger]

re-reading the thread again Bob after my dyno and now im surprised your friend got 13 secs IM gonna try the track sometime when I get the chance and see where I stand.  I wonder what I can get I slightly did better than your friends and I think the torque is what made me happy.

My mods on the care:
Keith black pistons
steel crank from 68
RPM heads
hooker headers (3inch back)
M1 intake
750 DP holley thats tired and needs a rebuild.
3.23 gearing
diametere of my rear though is 30inchs and based on that it gives me a 'fake' gearing I think equivalent to 3.70 or something like that.

still makes me wonder and im waiting anxiously to see what I get on the 19ths.  I figure a 440 should get 350hp easily and at least 400 plus ft-tq unless he has a 73 year 440 or above in his car.

Ahh the wait   Change out your plugs and do all the usual stuff you can ahead of time 74, I also put an inline fuel pressure guage on to check the pump was delivering. Ron suggested 7lb all the way through, I got around 6.5lb steady, was just one more thing to tick off.
A mate of mine made 269rwhp with his 383 68 Charger and did a 13.7 best, I'm hoping to dip into 13's but might be a struggle with the 3.23, what's in yours?

[Cooter]

Taller tires cut your effective final drive. More like a 2.76:1....

[1974dodgecharger]

oh cooter...damn Im forgetful now I remember why i 400rpms lower cruising on highway at 80 at 2600rpms vs 3k with 14inch magnums.

[Bob T]

74, the M1 will definitely make a difference.
Yes, keen to give my car another run down the strip after the mods and tune, a mate of mine has booked the local track on a Sunday for his company's work picnic, its in a few weeks time so I'll put some more results up when I have them.

[1974dodgecharger]

Well be waiting on that...

[myk]

74, the M1 will definitely make a difference.
Yes, keen to give my car another run down the strip after the mods and tune, a mate of mine has booked the local track on a Sunday for his company's work picnic, its in a few weeks time so I'll put some more results up when I have them.

I've gotta' ditch this Performer manifold and 'carb...

[BSB67]

74, the M1 will definitely make a difference.
Yes, keen to give my car another run down the strip after the mods and tune, a mate of mine has booked the local track on a Sunday for his company's work picnic, its in a few weeks time so I'll put some more results up when I have them.

I've gotta' ditch this Performer manifold and 'carb...

Which M1?

[Bob T]

74, the M1 will definitely make a difference.
Yes, keen to give my car another run down the strip after the mods and tune, a mate of mine has booked the local track on a Sunday for his company's work picnic, its in a few weeks time so I'll put some more results up when I have them.

Don't know, thought there was only 1 
I've gotta' ditch this Performer manifold and 'carb...

Which M1?

[Ghoste]

M1 is a series of manifolds from Chrysler, you can get single and dual plane versions.

[Bob T]

Well, bit of an update from the drags last weekend, unfortunately no p.b's as the ball end on the throttle cable broke on the motorway on the way down and it just went downhill from there.
I crimped a lug over the end of it and it held enough to get a couple of slowish passes and skids in but broke just as the lights went green for the third pass ( cue trombone wah wah wahhhhhh ) Trans was flaring a bit as I manually shifted into top as well, so the adjustment needs some work as well.

So, I'll have to try again when our club has another day . At least it was drivable home, my buddy popped his clutch in his chally a few weeks earlier and had to get a transporter $$$$$ home.

[Bob T]

Bit of an update of sorts..hardly really driven it much in the last 9 months...

The trans guy came over the other afternoon and found the pump pressure was low , he wound it up to 96 I think and now its shifting a lot more positively.
We"ll see how that proforms now...

[1974dodgecharger]

OH MAN BOB T it seems so long ago since you and I were talking dynos man....now I been on the dyno a couple times and happy with my 383, but im always looking at more power 

[Bob T]

OH MAN BOB T it seems so long ago since you and I were talking dynos man....now I been on the dyno a couple times and happy with my 383, but im always looking at more power 

Yeah, January last year. Feels like ages ago, hardly driven my car much, been away for 8 1/2 months on an overseas job. Just getting back into the car stuff now and finding the things that need doing or maybe planning some upgrades

Drove a mates 620hp Valiant the other week and that got me interested again ha.