Ethanol SUCKS!

[b5blue]

  Ethanol, "Less than 10% by volume" is what the pump label is marked. After having the Charger mostly sitting around while I chipped away at body repairs over the last 20 months I started back into getting it up to fully operational again. When I started off about 2 years ago I rebuilt both outboard carbs and installed a 2nd hand Holley rebuilt center carb. I got off eBay. Other than a light ping under heavy throttle going uphill (Like up an overpass or hill.) it ran like a champ.
  On the way to the welders for floor repairs it crapped out on me last month so after repairs to the floor I had it flat bedded back home and found no spark. Ron's Firecore RTR system fixed that nicely but it still was acting up. Checking the fuel system I started noticing restart after warming up was really lean and I got no shot from my accelerator pump? My rebuild kit from Chicago Corvette came in yesterday and today tear down showed this:

[b5blue]

  This carb was fresh 20 months ago, carb cleaner isn't cutting this mud like normal carb gunk would clean it! It sealed my "Umbrella check valve" to the bowl, plugged the squirt jets and clogged my right jet port 80%. I picked up a Holley 4bbl kit today to have gaskets for tearing down the outboards for cleanup so tomorrow I can get my six pack back where it was.
   Guys don't let your cars sit around with this crap in the system! My engine was run every month or so just to keep fuel moving and that was not enough!

[resq302]

Just curious but did you add any ethanol stabilizer to it such as the Star Tron fuel system treatment?

[b5blue]

  No just 93 octane, I kept about 7 gallons in the tank average. I'd at very least start the car and let it run if I couldn't drive it. When I got to a point in repairs where I could take it out for a 30-40 minute spin I'd put some fresh fuel in it so it never had really stale fuel. 
  That crust looked like silt or slime till the fuel dried, some flaked off in chips but some is like a coating, kinda weird. I just wanted to show this as many members cars are not used much!

[resq302]

Yup, the ethanol breaks down any sludge and varnish so it now flows through yours system easier!  Stuff is absolute junk!  Ethanol should be banned!

[b5blue]

So I learned!   My system is pretty darn clean to start with but I'll be getting a new tank soon anyway.  
  FYI Lacquer Thinner is cutting this crud nicely.   

[resq302]

Good to know about the lacquer thinner!   

[b5blue]

  It cut right through stuff the 2 different carb cleaners I tried wouldn't budge. I got my center carb ready today without messing up my original settings. After finding this crap I gotta take a peek inside the outboards this weekend. 
  If I find any crap I'll post pics but I'm hoping they are OK.

[Ghoste]

Good luck and good luck to us all because they seem to just keep wanting to add more.

[ws23rt]

There is no upside that I've seen.  As example--- the greater the alcohol content the lower the mpg.

For those that keep track of exact mpg it mixes up the ultimate value of the results.

[Cooter]

not trying to scare anybody right now, but we did have a big block Camaro come in shop with a Holley double pumper that had massive flaking off inside of carburetor.
it looked as if the aluminum  was actually being attacked.

[deepockets]

not sure if you've seen this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mROUaIg_h8

[JB400]

Good luck and good luck to us all because they seem to just keep wanting to add more.

Actually, I heard they are wanting reduce it back to 10% or less now.

[Ghoste]

I've been reading some rumblings about that too but I haven't seen action yet.  The corn/ethanol lobby will get the machine in high gear in DC I'm sure to get even larger subsidy's and keep the taps on.

[firefighter3931]

Not surprised to see that Neal 

Like Brian mentioned above ; a good quality stabalizer will really help eliminate that issue. The stay-bil "marine" product that is green colored works well and the product Brian mentioned has been getting positive reviews.


Ron

[b5blue]

  Good to know Ron, Thanks. That stuff is used extensively down here for boats that mostly sit around waiting to be used. Hopefully the days of my car sitting around are over for good! The push this winter is to complete the necessary repairs to go back to daily driver status. I've located 2 stations that have non ethanol fuel not far from me so I'm thinking of draining most of that cat piss out of my Charger and putting it in my Jeep to burn.   

[resq302]

Yes, the Star Tron stuff has been known for years to guys with boats due to boats being more "sensitive" to things.  I have found out though from personal use that not only does it improve the performance of the engine with power and smoother idle, but in my daily drivers, I have noticed an increase in mpgs and faster start ups.

[b5blue]

The rear outboard wasn't bad at all, but then they have not seen much action. 

[resq302]

Neal,

Since I do not own (or likely will never have a chance to own) a 6 pack set up, I know the center is the primary but does both outboard carbs open up at the same time or is it a progressive type of thing?  Such as 2-4-6 barrel or does it go from 2-6 barrel.

[maxwellwedge]

Think of the outboard carbs as the secondaries of a vacuum secondary 4 BBL. They only open when the vacuum is sufficient for them to open. And, they will only open as far as the center carb is open. Of course - this all depends on the strenth of the vacuum springs and how much the engine vacuum is etc. A stiffly sprung secondary may never open fully when the middle carb is wide open.



And yes.......Ethanol sucks!!!

[b5blue]

Here is a pic. You can see how the 2 outboards are connected. The lever on the bottom of the pic is held in the closed position by the center carb by a rod. So you basically go from 350cfm (Center carb.) to (X 2 500cfm) 1350cfm as needed with both outboards opening.

[resq302]

ah ok.  thanks for the clarification!

[Ghoste]

So the StarTron (and similar products) do they bust up the deposits after they have already occured or is it strictly a preventative?

[b5blue]

I highly doubt it, it took Lacquer Thinner AND some rubbing/scrubbing to clean up my stuff.     

[resq302]

I think the Star Tron is also a fuel system cleaner.  As for how well it breaks the sludge down, that I don't know yet.  All I know is I have never had any problem with it.

[69wannabe]

I think Lucas sells an additive that supposed to help with the ethanol fuel. I have some in the shop and I often pour a few ounces in the tank. I haven't had any carb troubles so I have no idea if this stuff is any good or not. I get it at o'reillys tho 

[Ghoste]

The Lucas products are fairly common around here so I'll look for that.  A lot of marina's around too so I'll look for the other as well. 

[firefighter3931]

For the Ontario guys ; Shell 91 is ethanol free. Spoke with a local engine builder who takes care of the dirt track racers and he swears by the stuff. Makes more power than the petro-can 94 and is also more detonation resistant. Last engine he dynoed with the PC 94 blew out the ringlands on a spec motor.    Switched to V-power 91 and all has been good since. 


Ron

[maxwellwedge]

Great - Thanks Ron. The Sunoco/Petrocan Ultra94 is what I have been using....along with the occasional few gallons of C12 mixed in. 


Shell 91 is what it is from now on!

[Ghoste]

The Shell might even be a cent or two cheaper. 

[maxwellwedge]

My company gas card is Petro-Can...

[firefighter3931]

My company gas card is Petro-Can...

Isn't that allways the way ! 


Marc (RideLikeHell) works for Shell in Sarnia at the refinery and had been using the Petro-Can Moose Piss in his Charger thinking that it was the best product out there. Funny....a Shell employee using a competitors inferior product. 

I suggested he join the home team and he reports the car runs better than ever with the V-Power 91 

Now he doesn't need to fill his car up at 4am worring about being spotted    at the "wrong" filling station 

Jim...you need to talk to that boss of yours and have him switch over to Shell   


Ron

[Ghoste]

Although lately I have seen Shell ads bragging about their support of corn gas.