The Bullit charger is back for 700k less

[chargerman69]

Remenber this guy was trying to get a Million dallors for this charger before

http://www.cars-on-line.com/64517.html

[Ghoste]

He isn't going to like this appraisal any more than his last one.

[tan top]

 I remember !  the story , he found a few holes had been drilled & was originally yellow then painted black , then all of a sudden its the Bullit charger  
 few coincidences & stuff  & would be awesome if it was the missing car ,
not asking a million     now only 300 thousand  
still only needs one guy with more money than brains  
having said all this ,  Has there been any concrete proof documented evidence this is that car    if so ignore  what I've just said  

[Ghoste]

No new evidence and too late for the 2007 manic price bubble.  But time will tell.

[Baldwinvette77]

 I read that article before, what puzzled me was the lack of body damage when they found the car, didn't look like it was ever repaired before  

[xs29bb1]

Wow just think - with the money you're saving, you can buy this one, the other one, and still have $400k left over!!  This has to be the bargain of the century!!!!!   

[Mike DC]

I read that article before, what puzzled me was the lack of body damage when they found the car, didn't look like it was ever repaired before

They had a pair of Chargers for the movie.  The stunt car is unquestionably dead.  This would be the other one. 


The story is interesting.  With the options on the car, the dealership it was sold from, the time it was sold, the holes matching some very obscure pics, etc.  If this isn't the real car then the guy must have done a whole lot of searching and effort to find a car suitable to fake it.  This was more than just drilling some holes in a '68. 

[Ghoste]

But still circumstantial since the studio claimed both cars destroyed.

[AKcharger]

OH YEAH! now I remember. seems like It would have been more original if they left the holes

[remta1]

 

[Mytur Binsdirti]

The stunt car is unquestionably dead.   

Based on what I see here for other's restoration projects, the Bullit Charger would have been a piece of cake. 

[Challenger340]

I read the articles posted with the link, pretty interesting stuff.
A little off topic maybe here....
but,
interesting to me anyways in the one article, was the descriptions of the amount of "work" they had to perform the Mustangs, so they could "keep up" with the Charger ?
Being an old guy, I remember those days, and this rang so true.... and historically correct for me ?
And it wasn't just the 390 Engines in the much lighter Mustangs, I can remember absolutely TROUNCING even 428 CJ's with 440 GTX's etc., not even a contest !
Apologies if I have offended any closet Ford affectionado's , that's just the way it was.
I actually used to feel sorry for the guys running FE Engine powered Mustangs, they were just "Field Cars" for warm up races prior to the real stuff ?

[Ghoste]

Not a closet Ford guy but a lot of FE's here in my hometwon.  Small town but home base for Barrie Poole and John Elliot and there were and are some very strong 428 and 390 cars around here.  Mind you they've all been well tuned but you won't be getting a "warm up" with a lot of them, you'll need to earn the win.

[XS29L9Bxxxxxx]

So, is that car legit, or?

[Mike DC]

Based on what I see here for other's restoration projects, the Bullit Charger would have been a piece of cake. 

If it was found today in the condition at the end of filming, perhaps.  But I think it's known to have been scrapped right after filming. 

In those days when musclecars were new, in a large city area, the car had been repainted, driven to death, smashed up all over the body, rolled, and then burned . . . I see virtually no chance of that thing staying out of the crusher for another 3 months after filming ended. 

[bull]

Only $300k now? Well, in that case I'll take two please. Seriously though, if he were to dtop it another $250k he'd still be on the high end. You can't legitimately ask icon car prices without solid proof that it's real based on extra holes. Evidently he's expecting a rich dummy to get suckered in, and there aren't too many rich dummies out there who like Chargers/Bullitt. All the rich dummies in this country drive Priuses.

[jaak]

If there was concrete proof that was it was the actual Bullet car... 300k doesn't seem too much considering Lee 1's dash, VIN, firewall and windshield (put on another car) brought 110k.

On a serious note, no charger is worth that much...movie car or not.

Jason

[Ghoste]

If an Aston Martin is worth millions because it was used in Goldfinger then the Bullitt Charger is worth stupid money too.  The difference is that the Aston could prove its screen use.
If there was irrefutable evidence this was the car he claims (and its funny because until he decided to take it to show and sell he also stated "could be") then I think it would easily top 300k.

[Baldwinvette77]

If somebody can show that vin of that charger is one the 2 bought for the movie, thats really it... wouldn't there have been any records? can they trace back the original buyer? to see if someone from the production was the first owner? 

[Ghoste]

They haven't been able to do that.

[Ghoste]

The studio or production crew were the original buyers and they say they have no records and only that both cars were destroyed after filming.

[Mike DC]

  
At this point Warner Bros knows less about those Bullitt cars than we do.  There's probably no way to ever really verify it.  It wouldn't be implausible for the studio to repaint & use a car, only to have it be resold on the dealership later when they are done.  That kind of thing was more common back then.   

It's confirmed that the nicer Mustang from Bullitt does in fact survive.  It got some collision damage in front during the 1970s and it's been stored away for decades.

------------------------------

I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of the five original Vanishing Point Challys is still out there somewhere.  4 of them were desirable 440/4spd cars, which all got run until they broke down but none had any big collision damage.
     

[1974dodgecharger]

Ill restore my own car my way with that much money....

[Tilar]

The way I see it is if he wanted to sell it or even just display it as one of the originals, Why did he cover the holes up?

[bull]

The way I see it is if he wanted to sell it or even just display it as one of the originals, Why did he cover the holes up?

And why drill them in the first place? Since his only proof is pics showing the locations of the camera mounting holes can he also prove it wasn't he who drilled the holes, took some pics of them and then restored the car?

[Ghoste]

 

[tan top]

    

[myk]

 

[Brock Lee]

The way I see it is if he wanted to sell it or even just display it as one of the originals, Why did he cover the holes up?

And why drill them in the first place? Since his only proof is pics showing the locations of the camera mounting holes can he also prove it wasn't he who drilled the holes, took some pics of them and then restored the car?

Exactly! It wasn't like this car came out to the world and had unknown extra holes that later were identified by an old photo. I also felt the holes looked way too clean. It was the only real "evidence" it was the same car. Has there been any proof the the original was not factory black? In those behind the scenes pics with the trunk lid off the car it sure looks nicely detailed for a movie studio job.

[myk]

Probably been asked before, but wouldn't the studio have some form of documentation indicating the particulars of the cars they bought for the movie, as in recepits or whatever with a VIN or something? 

[Ghoste]

With all the receipts for every item on every movie can imagine trying to find that piece of paper if they did save it?

[tan top]

Probably been asked before, but wouldn't the studio have some form of documentation indicating the particulars of the cars they bought for the movie, as in recepits or whatever with a VIN or something?  

With all the receipts for every item on every movie can imagine trying to find that piece of paper if they did save it?

thought about that before  , cars vin for insurance purposes , could work for vanishing point  & DMCL too ,  don't even have to go to the studio documents only need the  film sets insurance company I would of thought    although i'm just guessing , got no idea how it works  

[Tilar]

On one site where he talks about the car he writes:

"I also contacted Warner Brothers Archive Division and provided the PowerPoint slideshow to them.  They responded that all their historical archive documents have been lost/destroyed. "

So with no known documentation from Warner Brothers, there is nothing physical to dispute his claim

[Ghoste]

Nor is there to back it up.

[Tilar]

Exactly. He was at the nationals a couple years ago and believe me he is more than happy to try to convince you that it's the real Bullitt car, almost to the point that he's overbearing.

[myk]

On one site where he talks about the car he writes:

"I also contacted Warner Brothers Archive Division and provided the PowerPoint slideshow to them.  They responded that all their historical archive documents have been lost/destroyed. "

So with no known documentation from Warner Brothers, there is nothing physical to dispute his claim

Some people have balls of steel; if I had a claim like his I wouldn't open my mouth unless I had irrefutable proof.  Look at it this way: how does HE know it's the real car if there isn't a shred of evidence he can provide?

[ws23rt]

If this is one of the cars used in the movie and it is being offered for sale as that than why has all the original patina been removed?

Isn't it the case that true historical items have their value in large part because of the evidence of originality.

If an original daytona race winning charger were to be restored to factory street daytona class I would think it's value would be diminished.

But I am always amazed at what this market will bring

A reality check is that if this car does sell for silly money it does not change the world we live in. It only means someone had a weak moment with extra money. Sellers out there beware---finding these folks is like winning the lottery

[bull]

If this is one of the cars used in the movie and it is being offered for sale as that than why has all the original patina been removed?

Isn't it the case that true historical items have their value in large part because of the evidence of originality.

Yup. That's what they say on Pawn Stars.

[Mike DC]

Isn't it the case that true historical items have their value in large part because of the evidence of originality.

This is America.  We recognize two possible conditions for material things: #1 looking brand new, and #2 being carelessly neglected.  We do not understand the concept of anything in between.

[1974dodgecharger]

Leave the old man alone he is a fellow arizizonian....

[Ghoste]

Isn't the guy selling the Hurricane Sandy Charger as well? 

[Tilar]

It doesn't matter where he's from. If he were my next door neighbor I would call him out on it. Coincidences are not proof of anything. I'm not saying this is NOT the car, but I see nothing proving beyond doubt that it is either.

[Cooter]

It doesn't matter where he's from. If he were my next door neighbor I would call him out on it. Coincidences are not proof of anything. I'm not saying this is NOT the car, but I see nothing proving beyond doubt that it is either.

AMEN!! If he can't prove it with documentation, its a clone at best imo. Even if I can't prove him wrong. Its NOT my job to prove him wrong, he's the one asking ignorant money for a car he can't prove exists....sorry.

[Ghoste]

Well said!!

[Dino]

It's so nice to see you boys get along from time to time.   

[Brock Lee]

Isn't it the case that true historical items have their value in large part because of the evidence of originality.

This is America.  We recognize two possible conditions for material things: #1 looking brand new, and #2 being carelessly neglected.  We do not understand the concept of anything in between.

I partly agree. If he had solid, unquestionable proof the car is the Bullitt car, I think the resto is fine. However, lacking that proof, it should not have been touched. Why? Because any possible remainders of evidence had to be present for possible verification in the event any other pictures of film surface of this car.

A great example is he is asked why the trunk pan has no holes in it. He says "It had them, but I had to cut it out in the resto". Now we just have to take his word for it. Now he can use the restoration excuse to cover any possible differences between this car and photos that surface of the car used in the movie. That kills a whole lot of interest.

[XS29L9Bxxxxxx]

AMEN!! If he can't prove it with documentation, its a clone at best imo. Even if I can't prove him wrong. Its NOT my job to prove him wrong, he's the one asking ignorant money for a car he can't prove exists....sorry.

[Bob Hanner]

Evidently he's expecting a rich dummy to get suckered in, and there aren't too many rich dummies out there who like Chargers/Bullitt. All the rich dummies in this country drive Priuses.

He can always call Bubba Watson, The rich dummy who got suckered into buying Lee 1.

[Mike DC]

I partly agree. If he had solid, unquestionable proof the car is the Bullitt car, I think the resto is fine. However, lacking that proof, it should not have been touched. Why? Because any possible remainders of evidence had to be present for possible verification in the event any other pictures of film surface of this car.

A great example is he is asked why the trunk pan has no holes in it. He says "It had them, but I had to cut it out in the resto". Now we just have to take his word for it. Now he can use the restoration excuse to cover any possible differences between this car and photos that surface of the car used in the movie. That kills a whole lot of interest.

I'd probably split the difference here, and say it was okay to restore any areas on the car that obviously have all the history gone (exterior paint for example), and left alone whatever might still have history.  

He should have photographed the heck out of the unrestored car before taking it apart.  That would help.  




In the end I think it boils down to the credibility of the current owner/restorer and the backstory on the car.  The owner might have a reputation for being very honest or dishonest, for example.

Everyone is looking for some link to the Bullitt car . . . what about just chasing down the car's more recent owners?  What about the guy who sold it to the current guy?  What if he says the current owner was keenly interested in all the build/dealership data on the car before buying it?    What if the previous owners are sure those holes weren't there, or perhaps even have photos which prove they weren't?  I mean, if you can prove ONE of those holes wasn't on the car all the way back to 1968 then the entire story is blown. 
 

[Ghoste]

Hmm, makes me wonder how forthcoming he would be on the prior history of the car as he knows it.

[BB14404SPD]

Shame that the republic of California will not let you to a DMV vin search.

[Tilar]

Shame that the republic of California will not let you to a DMV vin search.

Well, California has never been noted for being very smart.

[lee2]

Hey guys. this is interesting to say the least Bullitt is why im a car guy... although I favor the mustang in the film. but I could swear a while back I was reading somewhere the Bill Hickman (wheelman of the chargers) went out to look for and buy the cars because ford was sponsoring the movie. since the dealership didn't have any triple black ones he bought a blue one and a yellow one for production. after filming was complete the blue one was the one that got smashed up and burned and the yellow one had minor repairs made re sprayed yellow and sold back to the dealership. so perhaps that is the reason there is no paperwork of the car. Im not even sure if Bill is still alive but if he is perhaps he would still be able to remember. Im not saying any of this really happened its just what I have heard.

[Ghoste]

I don't believe he is with us any longer.  That is basically the story as I recall too and on one of the deluxe versions of the dvd they show footage of them practising driving close at speed and the Charger is still blue.
I don't think everyone is saying that this car CAN'T be from the movie, just that without proof it isn't right for the seller to go around saying it absolutely is.  And for that much money, it does need hard evidence.

[wingcar]

Anyone who accepts a seller's word on the authenticity of a cars background/history without some documented proof is just asking to be taken.   There are too many people out there that know all the various tricks to making a car legit.  Too many Hemi cars have been sold in the past as original that were actually clones.   But, in these cases the seller got more money by claiming the car to be an original Hemi car rather than a small or big block car.

Bottomline:  In this day and age of people looking to make a fast buck by representing something as "special"... an individual really needs to do their homework.  Being lazy today will cost you money and heartache tomorrow.

Growing up in California, I have seen many "movie cars" for sale at various dealers through the years...and all of them were left in their original state.  The exception to this being some of the more racial customs which were brought up to display condition, but with these it was pretty obvious to begin with.   In my mine once you "restore" a movie car back to its original pre-production state it loses value.  When you remove the "movie scares" the car loses its connection to that role.   (Would you take out the dent Steve McQueen put in the front fender of the Mustang to give it a "used" look?)  After all how easy would it be to repaint a car and then claim it to the real car star?  Back in the day I had a '68 Charger RT that was yellow and I was going to paint it black and make it look like the "Bullitt", and it would have been so easy to do.

So if there is no documentation to prove this Charger is one of the two used by WB, then in my mine until proven otherwise, it's just a nice clone of the movie car. 


*Bill Hickman pasted away many years ago.........