Dan Gurney testing the Chrysler Engineering Daytona at Riverside

[odcics2]

In the fall of '69, Dan ran laps at Riverside prior to the 1970 Motor Trend 500 in January.
The purpose was to see if the nose and wing helped at a road course. 
In the pics below, the wing was 'maxed out' for down force and the headlight openings
were used to feed air to the front brakes.

DC-93 was built strictly as a super speedway car, with the body set 1.5 degrees nose down relative to the chassis.
Even so, the results showed there was a gain compared to a standard production B Body.

[Ghoste]

Good find, did they also test them for dirt tracks?

[Aero426]

Probably the test where Bobby Isaac was also there and left because he felt the Chrysler engineers were spending all their time with Gurney.  The Chrysler people were very happy with the level of feedback Dan was able to give.   Trouble was the Gurney was only there for the first day and had to leave for another commitment.   Isaac was mad and checked out of the hotel and took off without telling anyone.   

[Ghoste]

Imagine how great Bobby would have been if he had that intangible quality of a Gurney or Petty.  He had ability and I think he knew he had  ability but there was still a certtain type of confidence he lacked.  Do you know what I mean?

[tan top]

good find , thanks for posting  , interesting stuff     

[wingcar]

Imagine how great Bobby would have been if he had that intangible quality of a Gurney or Petty.  He had ability and I think he knew he had  ability but there was still a certtain type of confidence he lacked.  Do you know what I mean?

Bobby came from a dirt poor background and lacked the ability to deal comfortably with people as he always seemed to feel a bit inferior to those around him.  Behind the wheel he was fine, but behind a microphone he felt very uneasy.  You can just imagine the issues he would have had in today's NASCAR, with everyone sticking a microphone in your face.   It didn't help that when Petty and most all the top names in NASCAR started the Professional Driver' Association (a driver's Union) in 1969....they excluded Bobby..they didn't trust him.   But, again if you look at his driving record....he could get it done.   Sadly he passed away from a heart attack suffered at the Hickory race track in 1977.  He was 45 years old.   

[odcics2]

Good find, did they also test them for dirt tracks?

I have never heard of the need to have tested wing cars on dirt.

In 69, Isaac won 17 races.  His speedway win happened at Texas when Baker wrecked himself late in the race. (as mentioned on another recent thread)
Bobby ran a Charger 500 in 69 on the short tracks, including dirt, and did very well!  (16 wins in his Charger 500s)

In 1970, Bobby ran his 69 Charger 500's and a '70 tunnel back Charger on the short tracks, again doing well enough to win the Championship.  (11 wins between those two cars)   Also note - Bobby never ran a 1969 tunnel back car on any track.   

Adding up Allison's wins in '69-'70 and Petty's short track wins in 70, I'd say Chrysler was doing ok on the short tracks, including dirt. 

[Mike DC]

   
Isaac simply would not have gotten into today's NASCAR.  Being "marketable" is a major portion of the job requirement now. 

We complain but it's just the natural progression of the commercial development of the sport.  Same reason why Chrysler was dumping money into building wing cars back then.   

[Ghoste]

What were average lap speeds for the Riverside 500?

[C5X DAYTONA]

Ernie Conn said that Chrysler recommended the wing car package for the January 1970 race at Riverside.   Ernie said he didn't think the package would be effective at Riverside and didn't order the parts..    He said, after that race we made sure we had a Daytona for the June race.  We were getting blown away on the back straight.   Bill Conn (Ernie's son) had a Western Union notice from Chrysler telling him that his Daytona parts were waiting to be picked up at a local warehouse.   

[odcics2]

What were average lap speeds for the Riverside 500?

I think the pole speed for the 1970 Motor Trend 500 was around 113 mph.

[tan top]

What were average lap speeds for the Riverside 500?

I think the pole speed for the 1970 Motor Trend 500 was around 113 mph.

yep   
  fastest qualifier at 113.310mph
Parnelli Jones ,   #21 woods  brothers 70 mercury

pole winner Dan Gurney  ,  # 43  petty enterprises superbird at 112.060mph 

Aj Foyt took the checkered flag  , #11 Jack Bowsher 70 ford  , & had a lead of 3 .5 seconds over second place car  of Roger McCluskey the #1 Norm Nelson  superbird

[Ghoste]

How much faster would the back straight be that made the wing cars needed?

[odcics2]

How much faster would the back straight be that made the wing cars needed?

I think the trap speeds were in the 150+ range.   

[Ghoste]

Ok, so 150 is about the point where the aero advantage shows?  Just being curious.

[odcics2]

Ok, so 150 is about the point where the aero advantage shows?  Just being curious.

I looked up Riverside and the straight was close to 1/2 mile long!!   My guess of 150 may be low - perhaps someone on the west coast may know...
The nose made the cars virtually zero lift at any speed.  I know my stock '68 Charger felt floaty on I-94 at 100.  In my old Bird, 130+ was as stable as being in a parking lot, looking for a space!   

[Aero426]

Ok, so 150 is about the point where the aero advantage shows?  Just being curious.

More than outright speed, it's the total package.    

Even at a nearly flat one mile track like Milwaukee, the wing cars were said to have an advantage.   The one lap average there was 108 mph (Unser Superbird), which would give you a solid 140 mph down the straights, perhaps an average of 80 in the corners.    Even below 100, the side plates of the wing would help, especially on a long run as the tires start to give up.  

The Riverside back straight was huge, and I agree that 150 sounds low.    Big speed coming into turn 9.  

[Ghoste]

How much slower were the short tracks then?  Dirt too for that matter.

[Aero426]

How much slower were the short tracks then?  Dirt too for that matter.

Not by much.   Milwaukee was a 33 second track.   The Springfield and DuQuoin Illinois dirt miles were 37-39 seconds during this time.   Bet almost all of that is cornering speed.

[Ghoste]

But just enough to negate the value of using an aero package.

[Aero426]

But just enough to negate the value of using an aero package.

John Soares, west coast racer did run his Superbird on dirt at least once.     The nose cone would not stand up to much pushing and shoving, of course.   But I would say cooling would be the bigger problem on dirt.     The cars run a large shaker screen in front, which would sort of negate any benefit of the nose.

[Aero426]

Even on pavement, if the wing cars had a slight advantage, it was under perfect conditions.   And we all know races are not always run under ideal circumstances.   Plenty of races where wing cars competed were won by conventional cars.  Riverside for instance was won by the aero inferior 70 Torino.    A.J. Foyt in Jack Bowsher's factory backed equipment was worth a lot.   Parnelli won the pole in the Woods 70 Cyclone.  He was DQ'ed because of the tires he qualified on.   He started from the back and came to the lead like a hot knife through butter.    If his engine had not blown, he was on the way to routing the field.   But 500 miles at Riverside was a VERY long day; over FIVE hours to run that race.    Think of it, that today the current road races in Cup are 300km, not even HALF the distance of Riverside. 

[odcics2]

Jones, Foyt and Gurney are road course ringers, compared to the rest of the field back then.   

[Aero426]

Jones, Foyt and Gurney are road course ringers, compared to the rest of the field back then.    

This one about killed Foyt.   Good looking car before he left it in kit form.

[Ghoste]

Yeah Foyt was another freak of nature.  Run a 300 mile USAC stocker and then an Indycar race in the same day, Trans Am, NASCAR, anything.