Does a roll cage destroy the value of a car?

[MxRacer855]

I'm not necessarily going to drag my car, but I do actually "DRIVE drive" it and I'm considering one for safety (and stability granting it increases chassis rigidity).

Thoughts and opinions please. I really do enjoy the classic car look.

[Baldwinvette77]

Yeah, they do, bolt in cages don't hurt value as much, but alot of people, including myself question their strength. i put a 4 point roll cage in mine because 1: im a Wreckless idiot, and 2: chargers look mean with them 

[JamieZ]

There are also insurance implications.  Some companies won't cover a car with a cage since they assume you are racing it.

[Ghoste]

Depending on use of course, it might be safer bet to just connect the subframes.

[Baldwinvette77]

There are lots of ways of adding rigidity without a cage, alot of people hide braces behind the fenders and under the dash to control the torque, i've seen people add 1/8 plate on top of the front frame rails and of course subframe connectors 

[MxRacer855]

Yeah, they do, bolt in cages don't hurt value as much, but alot of people, including myself question their strength. i put a 4 point roll cage in mine because 1: im a Wreckless idiot, and 2: chargers look mean with them 

Thanks for posting this honest statement Baldwinvette77. To be completely honest, my initial reasons were the... delicate, round about way of saying that I'm a wreckless idiot as well!  So for my own safety, it might be a serious option to consider. In addition to that, the minimal amount of stiffness added is definitely a plus.

Jeff

[myk]

There are lots of ways of adding rigidity without a cage, alot of people hide braces behind the fenders and under the dash to control the torque, i've seen people add 1/8 plate on top of the front frame rails and of course subframe connectors 

Interesting.  I'm all about chassis rigidity and was thinking that somewhere along the line a roll-cage would have to go in, although I'm not too fond of the idea as I don't like the thought of a 2nd Gen looking like it has a B-pillar.  So...you mentioned fender bracing, under-dash bracing and steel plate on the frame rails?  Do you have an article or other information on this matter? 

[Mike DC]

            
If it's just about stiffening the car then resorting to a cage is probably not called for.

Yes cages do help stiffen things.  But unless you are willing to X-brace the door openings and put a seatbelt bar across behind the front seatbacks, you aren't taking advantage of what a cage can really do in terms of stiffening.  



You could get a lot from the basics of subframe connectors, torque box plating, lower rad crossmember, shock tower braces, etc.  (Did you notice that this list includes more than subframe connectors?  They are not the only chassis stiffening method worth doing.  SC's weren't even the first extra step that the factory took when they built convertibles.)

[Ghoste]

Mike is right, most of the roll cages that go into street drivne cars are really just providing some rollover protection for the passenger comparment.  If you want the cage to stiffen the you need to take a closer look at what a roundy rounder or road course racer does to their car.  Bars going to the very front and very rear.

[XS29L9Bxxxxxx]

Unless your car is bright orange with 01 on the doors, the roll cage will take away from the value and overall salability 

[Ghoste]

There is even a right and wrong with those, is there not?

[Baldwinvette77]

There are lots of ways of adding rigidity without a cage, alot of people hide braces behind the fenders and under the dash to control the torque, i've seen people add 1/8 plate on top of the front frame rails and of course subframe connectors 

Interesting.  I'm all about chassis rigidity and was thinking that somewhere along the line a roll-cage would have to go in, although I'm not too fond of the idea as I don't like the thought of a 2nd Gen looking like it has a B-pillar.  So...you mentioned fender bracing, under-dash bracing and steel plate on the frame rails?  Do you have an article or other information on this matter? 

Various sources, pipo did the fender bracing on his 69 charger from italy thread, and old episode of musclecar tv did a dash brace and the fender braces on their 70 challenger
and on another episode they boxed in a 65 fastback stangs front frame rails

i also think stacey david did similiar things on a mercury cougar  ..... i prefer tv to writeups 

[Ghoste]

The early Mustangs were notoriously bad in the front (Cougars too) thats why Shelby had to do that export bracing as it was cleverly termed for race legalizing.  The shock towers wanted to get together and the front suspension wouldn't hold a setting. 
One of the reasons I get miffed when people knock the Mopars and torsion bars.  It was superior to the competition of the time in my opinion.

[Baldwinvette77]

The early Mustangs were notoriously bad in the front (Cougars too) thats why Shelby had to do that export bracing as it was cleverly termed for race legalizing.  The shock towers wanted to get together and the front suspension wouldn't hold a setting. 
One of the reasons I get miffed when people knock the Mopars and torsion bars.  It was superior to the competition of the time in my opinion.

yeah torsion bars are epic tough.... but i aint paying 3000k + to throw together a stock front suspension, i rather spend half that on a generic hotrod suspension 

[Ghoste]

It will cost you over 3000 to build a stock suspension?

[Baldwinvette77]

It will cost you over 3000 to build a stock suspension?

From nothing yeah... from gathering steering parts, new torsion bars, bushings, spindles, brake parts, having to repair my torsion bar cross member, control arms, steering box, and k-member it came up at about 2700$ for a combination of new,used and universal parts and shipping charges .

[twodko]

           
If it's just about stiffening the car then resorting to a cage is probably not called for.

Yes cages do help stiffen things.  But unless you are willing to X-brace the door openings and put a seatbelt bar across behind the front seatbacks, you aren't taking advantage of what a cage can really do in terms of stiffening.  



You could get a lot from the basics of subframe connectors, torque box plating, lower rad crossmember, shock tower braces, etc.  (Did you notice that this list includes more than subframe connectors?  They are not the only chassis stiffening method worth doing.  SC's weren't even the first extra step that the factory took when they built convertibles.)

X2 plus they are ugly. 

[HPP]

Yeah, they do, bolt in cages don't hurt value as much, but alot of people, including myself question their strength. i put a 4 point roll cage in mine because 1: im a Wreckless idiot, and 2: chargers look mean with them 

Thanks for posting this honest statement Baldwinvette77. To be completely honest, my initial reasons were the... delicate, round about way of saying that I'm a wreckless idiot as well!  So for my own safety, it might be a serious option to consider. In addition to that, the minimal amount of stiffness added is definitely a plus.

Jeff

i agree. For most guys, they will signifcantly detract from the value.

For safety sake in a street car, I also question their value as a protection device. The reason being is that in a race car, you have a helmet to protect your melon when it bonks the bar. In a street car you do not have a helmet. Yes ,you can add foam, but the issue, IMO, is not so much what you are running into with your head so much as the addition of a roll bar/cage in a street situation significantly reduces clearances of things to run into. Face it, a roll cage is not any harder than a steel roof rail as far as impact goes. However, to install the cage means it is offset from the interior panels because of its diameter, you also have additional offset to allow you room to weld around it and you may have some extra offset to put the panels back in. Net result is you may be reducing room inside the car by up to 4-6 inches.  This may not seem significant, unless you have ever watched in car video of how much our bodies move in an impact. In these situations, 4-6 inches could mean the dfference between a skull frature and a seat belt bruise.

I agree with Mike DC that there are a lot of methods of increasing chassis rigidity before needing to resort to a bar/cage. These days there are companies offering whole systems to help increase rigidity in unobtrusive ways. One of the most underrated and unobtrusive ways is to simply weld up all the pinch seams in the car. I have seen a study done on a first gen mustang where this exercise improved torsional rigidity 65% over stock with no other mods done to the overall structure of the car. Sure, it takes a lot of effort and can't be done on a complete car, but if you're starting as a project, it might be worth considering.

[Baldwinvette77]

Yeah, they do, bolt in cages don't hurt value as much, but alot of people, including myself question their strength. i put a 4 point roll cage in mine because 1: im a Wreckless idiot, and 2: chargers look mean with them 

Thanks for posting this honest statement Baldwinvette77. To be completely honest, my initial reasons were the... delicate, round about way of saying that I'm a wreckless idiot as well!  So for my own safety, it might be a serious option to consider. In addition to that, the minimal amount of stiffness added is definitely a plus.

Jeff

i agree. For most guys, they will signifcantly detract from the value.

For safety sake in a street car, I also question their value as a protection device. The reason being is that in a race car, you have a helmet to protect your melon when it bonks the bar. In a street car you do not have a helmet. Yes ,you can add foam, but the issue, IMO, is not so much what you are running into with your head so much as the addition of a roll bar/cage in a street situation significantly reduces clearances of things to run into. Face it, a roll cage is not any harder than a steel roof rail as far as impact goes. However, to install the cage means it is offset from the interior panels because of its diameter, you also have additional offset to allow you room to weld around it and you may have some extra offset to put the panels back in. Net result is you may be reducing room inside the car by up to 4-6 inches.  This may not seem significant, unless you have ever watched in car video of how much our bodies move in an impact. In these situations, 4-6 inches could mean the dfference between a skull frature and a seat belt bruise.

I agree with Mike DC that there are a lot of methods of increasing chassis rigidity before needing to resort to a bar/cage. These days there are companies offering whole systems to help increase rigidity in unobtrusive ways. One of the most underrated and unobtrusive ways is to simply weld up all the pinch seams in the car. I have seen a study done on a first gen mustang where this exercise improved torsional rigidity 65% over stock with no other mods done to the overall structure of the car. Sure, it takes a lot of effort and can't be done on a complete car, but if you're starting as a project, it might be worth considering.

65%? you don't say? maybe i can build a charger that can survive a jump or 2 afterall 

[toocheaptosmoke]

I also debated putting a roll cage in my car for a while, I'll admit that one picture of a charger crash tested into a wall that was CRUSHED was part of the motivation.   I plan on driving the car a lot, and as much as I hate to say it getting into a wreck is a possibility.  In the end I compromised with subframe connectors, also have torque boxes waiting to go in, and am considering additional things like already mentioned.  The cage will detract a bit from the comfort of riding in the car, climbing over braces every time you enter/exit, and passengers in the backseat would not be happy. 

[myk]

If I can get away with chassis stiffening without a rollcage that's the direction I'll head in for sure.  The impression I get from this thread is that the roll cages are either for real racers or real ricers.  Now, my car is on the road so I can't do that seam-welding thing, but I do have SFC's; maybe I will look into those torque boxes next...

[Fred]

           
If it's just about stiffening the car then resorting to a cage is probably not called for.

Yes cages do help stiffen things.  But unless you are willing to X-brace the door openings and put a seatbelt bar across behind the front seatbacks, you aren't taking advantage of what a cage can really do in terms of stiffening.  



You could get a lot from the basics of subframe connectors, torque box plating, lower rad crossmember, shock tower braces, etc.  (Did you notice that this list includes more than subframe connectors?  They are not the only chassis stiffening method worth doing.  SC's weren't even the first extra step that the factory took when they built convertibles.)

X2 plus they are ugly. 

x3  (On the off chance you value my opinion)

[Cooter]

Depends on who bends the bars, how well it's fitted/hidden, and how easily it [the car] can be gotten in and out of...
A 'drag' cage is NOT meant for the street...therefore,  it is uncomfortable to get in and out of. But it serves a vital purpose.

A 'street' cage serves the same purpose, but is custom fitted as to strengthen the car while providing minimal intrusion on comfort.
Basically, done correctly, a street cage might add value..done cheaply/hurried, it is more if a problem than an asset.

[Indygenerallee]

I am going to run a full cage in my Daytona clone I figure since I am doing a race style tribute car and I am going to do some road racing eventually (we have a nice SCCA road course just up the road, Putnamville road course) and I want the car to be as stiff and safe as possible.

[Cooter]

Not to mention, cages on the street just plain ol look badass. Period. Useless? Maybe, just like a 50% efficient roots blower vs a much better centifugal blower.