440 lack of power

[kokxville]

Hi,my 440 does not perform the way it should.

I put in the ready to run distrubitor from firecore50 with the sparkplugwires and it works awesome.
It's a 4 speed and if i let go of the throttle,it bangs in the exhaust while driving.When i hit the acceleratorpedal,it should move much faster in my opinion.
Could this be a carb problem?
There's an eddy 650 on it now and it has a torker intake manifold.
This issue occured also with my old original distrubitor,so the ignition is fine.I also timed it like it should.

Any ideas? 

Thanks.
John

[myk]

You can have the trickest parts in the world, but if the engine itself is damaged or "sick" in some way, it will never run like it should. 

What's the deal with your motor?  How many miles on it?  How many miles since the rebuild?  Do you know its internal specs/parts/build?  I'll say for starters that the 650 'carb is a little too small for the application.  When was the last tune up?  How are the plugs, wires, coil, fuel filter, etc? 

If the motor's been maintained, tuned up recently, where's your timing set at?  What jetting is your 'carb at? 

[HPP]

If its banging out the exhaust and sluggish to respond to throttle input, then there could be issues with ignition timing - whether a slipped inertia ring on the balancer or the gear drive being off a tooth, cam phasing, or carb mixture.

Is this a recent development, always been there, what is some background info?

[kokxville]

Well,
Long story short,
i bought the car from moparsal,he's a flipper here on the forum and sells parts for chargers.
He told me the engine has just 500 miles on it since rebuild,but i don't know if that's true. 

So unfortunatly no info on the build whatsoever.
I gave it a good overhaul with oil,filters and sparkplugs.The ignition timing is set at 16 * BTDC,wich should be fine according to Ron ( Firefighter 3931 )
I hope it's a carb problem.

[Dino]

A 650 would only work will when set up perfectly and then still it's not ideal for that engine and definitely not for that manifold.  Get a stock-ish manifold with a 750 carb and try again.

[firefighter3931]

Hey Johnny 

The "original" Torker is an excellent manifold. The carb is a bit undersized and it would work nicely with a 750DP carb, especially with that 4 spd 

Make sure your float level is set at the proper height. I wouldn't hurt to check the fuel pressure just to see what it's doing at wide open throttle. 



Ron

[Cooter]

I'd be doin a compression check....sounds like a low comp motor to me.

[kokxville]

Thanks for the fast replies.

I was already planning on doing a compression test,Cooter 

Ron,i'm going to order the proform 750dp carb 

Thanks.

John

[4cruzin]

I think for a stock 440 . . . . 750 is ok.  If it is built at all, I would get the 850 proform  . . . I have a pretty much stock 440 in my convertible and I think it does well with the 850.  I have a 950 on my stroker motor and that also does pretty well!   

[Challenger340]

Thanks for the fast replies.

I was already planning on doing a compression test,Cooter 

Ron,i'm going to order the proform 750dp carb 

Thanks.

John

BINGO ??
Low pop smogger 440 Engines typically are not great performers ? just sayin....

[1974dodgecharger]

was watching that epsiode of roadkill how they got the 440 from the pacer RV in the charger and frieburger was saying they have the weakest 440 in the charger  how it produces only 215HP stock in the late build 440s.  It did sound like crap too.....

Thanks for the fast replies.

I was already planning on doing a compression test,Cooter 

Ron,i'm going to order the proform 750dp carb 

Thanks.

John

BINGO ??
Low pop smogger 440 Engines typically are not great performers ? just sayin....

[Cooter]

Hadda guy try and sell me a 'Magnum' 440 out of a MH while I was porting a set of heads for a buddies SBC.
I said sure, how much and what year MH?

I had almost busted out laughing when he said...."its definitely a Magnum cause they put them in the MH. I'll take $3500.00 for it".
I politely declined.

[1974dodgecharger]

Hadda guy try and sell me a 'Magnum' 440 out of a MH while I was porting a set of heads for a buddies SBC.
I said sure, how much and what year MH?

I had almost busted out laughing when he said...."its definitely a Magnum cause they put them in the MH. I'll take $3500.00 for it".
I politely declined.

lmao...that made my day 

[Challenger340]

MH's had factory "Magnum" Engines ?? LOL ! yeah OK.

One of these days....
I am going to go get one of those dashboard cameras..... and go whoop on my old bone "stock" 1969 375hp 440 Magnum... yep a REAL one, "untouched" since new... just for posterity, and post up the ride.
Now,
it is not a 10 second Drag Car, but you can certainly "tell".... that it ain't no slouch either !
I had long forgotten just how much FUN factor they had....just wonderful "Torque" pull in the big Car !

[HPP]

A 650 would only work will when set up perfectly and then still it's not ideal for that engine and definitely not for that manifold.  Get a stock-ish manifold with a 750 carb and try again.

I disagree. A 650 can be made to work just fine on a 440. Granted, it will not have the top end horsepower that a 750 would, but off idle to 4000 rpm it would work.

I've seen 500 cfm 2 bbls work on big blocks. They just don't flow enough air to be worth a crap once the revs start to climb.

So unfortunatly no info on the build whatsoever.
I gave it a good overhaul with oil,filters and sparkplugs.The ignition timing is set at 16 * BTDC,wich should be fine according to Ron ( Firefighter 3931 )
I hope it's a carb problem.

I don't doubt you set the timing according to what you could see on the balancer and the specs you were told. However, there are potential issues within that assumption that all your components are correct. If they are off then that could lead to things being off even though you think they are right.  I'd definetly check compression and maybe try dialing in more advance to see what that does for you. Experimenting with timing costs you nothing but time,
unlike buying an entirely new carb and intake

[cudaken]

I agree with HHP and I bet the problem is in the timing.

Set the timing by vacuum, use the vacuum port off the back of the manifold and advances till you have max vacuum and take it for a test drive.

Have you checked to make sure the throttle blades are full open when floored? Do this with the engine not running!:lol: Have someone floor it and look to make sure they are fully open. With after market parts, sometimes the cable bell has to be moved around to get WOT.

When you say Banging in the exhaust, does it sound like it is back firing and missing? Or does it sound like something is just rattling?

Torker and Torker II are fine intakes.

Cuda Ken

[kokxville]

Thanks for the replies guys 
I'll go check all these things and get back as soon as i have more information.

I also make shure that i check the throttlle blades with my engine not running,Cudaken.

Have a great holiday.

John

[Bob T]

Just to jump in with a related Q guys, what should the fuel pressure be at w.o.t. ?? Or even at idle, I'm suspecting my fuel pump rod is worn and not making enough pressure/delivery. Cheers.

[kokxville]

Just to jump in with a related Q guys, what should the fuel pressure be at w.o.t. ?? Or even at idle, I'm suspecting my fuel pump rod is worn and not making enough pressure/delivery. Cheers.

Hi Bob,

i'm going to check that too.
Thanks

[firefighter3931]

Just to jump in with a related Q guys, what should the fuel pressure be at w.o.t. ?? Or even at idle, I'm suspecting my fuel pump rod is worn and not making enough pressure/delivery. Cheers.

I like to see 7psi at all times.....if the pressure is dropping at WOT then you have a fuel delivery issue.

Even if the bowls are full a drop in pressure will hurt performance. 



Ron

[Bob T]

Just to jump in with a related Q guys, what should the fuel pressure be at w.o.t. ?? Or even at idle, I'm suspecting my fuel pump rod is worn and not making enough pressure/delivery. Cheers.

I like to see 7psi at all times.....if the pressure is dropping at WOT then you have a fuel delivery issue.

Even if the bowls are full a drop in pressure will hurt performance. 

Ron

Thanks Ron, always appreciate the advice , have another virtual beer on me   
I have a dyno booked for next Tuesday on a guys private setup, so I'm just trying to get everything sorted beforehand.

Koksville, have a look on the search function tab for fuel pump rods on here and you will find plenty of info for length and "how to change"   

[cudaken]

One thing that none of us as asked John is why and when does he feel the 440 lacks power?

Cuda Ken

[kokxville]

One thing that none of us as asked John is why and when does he feel the 440 lacks power?

Cuda Ken

Hi Ken,

It's from  2000 to 5500 rpm when accellerate. 

[cudaken]

[

[HPP]

Has it always felt this way or is a recent development?

[kokxville]

right from the start   

[don duick]

my 440 also lacked power it was a fresh rebuild with 10.3 to 1 compression. found 3 reasons,

weak ignition

not enough advance in timing

restrictive exhaust.

installed a msd 6a box with msd blaster coil to my mp distributor {has adjustable advance}remove resistor and do not rely on ignition wire for full 12 volts hook up a relay, msd boxes don't like a voltage drop.

set initial timing to about 16 degrees disconnect vacuum advance total timing is about 35 degrees  had a new orange box before. it was a total piece of crap or I got one that was a dud.

I thought I had 2.5 inch mufflers but when I looked in the outlet about 6 or 7 inches inside the outlet pipe the inside diameter was only 2.25 they were choking the motor. I put 2.5 straight through mufflers

anyway these three things really woke up my 440 goes great now.  Its easy to talk about after the event but I was tearing my hair out hope yours turns out to be simple and obvious. do compression test and find out cam size. if low compression and big cam go back to small cam. if real low compression like about 120 then forget about it your wasting your time. if someone else has touched this motor then check to see if cam/timing chain installed correctly it is easy to install  one tooth out or better still degree the cam. mine was installed straight up and is out by one degree which I could not fix so did not worry about it. and there could be someone who reads this and thinks I am a total F@#$wit