My rant: SUPRA vs CHARGER

[1974dodgecharger]

So I had this discussion on facebook about the charger vs supra from YES fast and furious.  Im telling some of these tuner dudes that it costs money get the power they want from their supra and the cost invovled to get 600, 700, and the 1500HP they claim they can get in their supras.  I tell these guys the cost to their supras to 1500HP is probably 50k with lots of engine work, stroked, mods, etc..They did not believe me!!!  I was kinda shocked they said this they claim they can get 600HP by spending 25 dollars for a air filter that flows better.  Then putting in some headers gives them 100HP, and then they can turn the dial up on the boost to push 900HP as a daily driver.  Now mind you they are talking about the turbo version the single version in their MKIV vehicle.

My rebuttal was that a bigger engine will produce more HP/TQ for the same price.  In the same price of 50k of engine work/mod work etc. I told them I could get more HP/TQ from the HEMI. 

It was just fasinacting me this disucssion I had with the hundreds on facebook.  I just couldnt believe what they were saying to me so it got me fired up (in a good way of a healthy discussions) about money, speed, engine, etc. in the real world.  Then some of the stuff they spewed out was fasincationg to say at least about supras.

end rant....

[Mopar Nut]

 

I had/have owned both.

[Mike DC]

  If they could get 600 hp from a Supra by spending $600 then why haven't they done it with theirs?  Oh yeah, because they don't have one. 

Bottom line, with muscle cars you get cheap power but you sell you firstborn children to get the car into decent shape.  With imports it's the opposite. 

[Ghoste]

I'm kind of liking the line about making 600hp by adding a 25 dollar air filter.  Thats marketing at its finest.

[tan top]

let them waffle on ,  we have nothing to prove , yes they can make power , but to get 700 -1000 hp + their motors are on the ragged edge of  blowing up  . imo   all that boost , lets see them run on boost for 500 miles at Daytona or Talladega
 seriously , taking nothing away from the ricer mob & their Nagasaki nut buckets , they can  make awesome power , & they are  car guys like  us sort of ,   although reading some of their comments , and listening to  some  , they are not as knowledgeable as you would think     
 just imo to get these magical numbers ive seen quoted all over the net & heard  600 - 800 -2000 + horse
you need  thousands & thousands & thousands  of dollars ,  once you get to that kind of level ,  imo  motors only a second or two from self distructing on boost ( or spooling up is the latest buzz word for a turbo motor I think  )
  sort of like a Fuel hemi , think the latest guess is they make 10,000 hp on nitro today  , & hope they hold together under wide open throttle for 5 seconds  



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSVFVahN3Rk  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cmlvL38OSM  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzldL378J3c

 

[myk]

Doesn't matter how much power you can get out of the 'Supra; from what I understand on the LS-1 forums Supra's have a lot of trouble hooking up once they start making more power than stock.  Supra's are an awesome car though; if I had the money I would have one for sure.  IMO, they're sort of like the 2nd 'Gen Chargers of the Ricer world...

[Cooter]

While it is ok to attempt to school import dudes, I'm afraid your fighting a losing battle. Kinda like me trying to convince some here that I'm just 'misunderstood'.......
1500 hp Supra.... $75k....
$1500 hp Charger... $75k...

Supra is worth half...
Charger is worth half...
No rant needed.

[Ghoste]

Cooter, I just don't understand, what are you talking about?

[Indygenerallee]

I know that when the first F&F movie came out and the Supra was keeping up neck and neck with the Charger in the end scene I just laughed as in "no way possible" Then I found out what the Mark IV Supra could really do with a little work.. They are nice looking cars, If I won the lottery I would own a built Mark IV twin turbo 6 speed... Sad so many people have blinders on and that goes for all crowds.

[Indygenerallee]

Probably the best interior video I have ever seen of a Supra MarkIV  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02lRDvcXFsg

[Cooter]

Bottom line? Cubic dollars beats cubic inch every time. You cannot outrun money....

[Ghoste]

Yeah, not misunderstanding you now. 

[Dreamcar]

I was in high school in the mid-late 90s when the tuner scene was starting. I had two pictures of cars in my locker...A 1970 Datsun 240Z, and a 69 Charger RT. A few years ago, I bought, restored and eventually sold my 71 240Z.  I now own a 69 Charger which has always been my #1 dream car (thus my online name).

My point is that I've always respected japanese and european cars. I grew up in a mostly Nissan household. And, I realize the potential HP numbers these guys can get out of small displacement engines that are extremely reliable. The Supra, in particular, is stupid fast, even in relatively stock turbo form. Although I understand the tuner scene, the sound coming out of the back of these cars drives me nuts. I much prefer the sound of a rumbling V8. But that's just my taste.

I really don't have a point to make...but I think the Tuner vs Musclecar thing is not much different than the Mopar vs. Chevy vs Ford thing. Fans of each will always stick up for what they prefer. But, at the end of the day, we are all car guys and girls 

p.s. Where can I pick-up that $25 dollar, 100-hp boosting air filter for my wife's Honda CR-V?   

[HPP]

What I see with a lot of these guys is the same thing I saw when I was much younger and guys were doing the same thing with smog era V8s. I would call it marketing math.

If I take my base 335 horse motor, add a 25 horse air filter, 100 horse headers, 25 horse mufflers, a 50 horse carb/injectors, I now have a 535 horsepower engine. Reality is the math doesn't really add up that way.

Yes, Supra engines were engineered to take a fair amount of boost for a fair amount of time and live healthy lives. BTW, the architecture of a lot of Toyota six cylinders is based off the old chevy six bangers from the 50s. Simple rule of displacement say that similar boost levels added to a V8 would produce similar gains which would result in a total net higher output than an equivalent, but smaller displacement  6 banger.  Its just that not many guys go that route.

I also think its safe to say that anyone can squeeze double digits amounts of boost into any engine and make A pass with it. Whether it lives of not is an entirely different story. If you want 1000 horsepower for 15 seconds, that is entirely different than 1000 horses for 50,000 miles.  However, in making those arguments you often have to refer to the old adage about teaching pigs and how it often is a waste of time until they are willing to come to you for knowledge. That often doesn't happen until they grenade a few of their $500, 1000 horsepower motors.

[War wagon]

IMHO you can't compare boosted cars of any type to normally aspirated ones. Like comparing apples and oranges.
Today's technology makes power available to cars of any type or origin.

Yes a Supra can make GOOD power from a few bolt ons and turning up the boost. So can today's crop of turbo cars, only now they do it with the added benefit of AWD.
Cars like the Nissan GTR, Mitsubishi EVO, Subaru STi can be built up to destroy SUPERCARS never mind 40 yr old muscle cars. And the AWD allows those cars to accually USE that power, THINK TRACTION  on Street tires.
Go ahead and try and launch any 500-600+ hp car on pavement without the aid of trac prep and slicks. You won't be going far.....
But today's batch of cars are the evolution of the performance industry.

In forty years however I suspect few of today's cars with all their advancements will be remembered or cared for the way our old chargers and muscle cars are..
They all lack the charisma and character that these old beasts have.

A supra will NEVER demand the same level of respect and awe from the general public as a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd gen charger do. The supra was a very ltd car that was wayyyy overpriced when released and not many average folks even know what they are.

[Ghoste]

Never say never.  Twenty years from now Chargers may only be remembered as the cop cars from F&F.

[myk]

I know that when the first F&F movie came out and the Supra was keeping up neck and neck with the Charger in the end scene I just laughed as in "no way possible" Then I found out what the Mark IV Supra could really do with a little work.. They are nice looking cars, If I won the lottery I would own a built Mark IV twin turbo 6 speed... Sad so many people have blinders on and that goes for all crowds.

They're really hard to find these days.  I'm told that a solid, "non" turbo version could easily go for $20K, and a turbo'd model for almost twice as much.  I've seen maybe two or three turbo cars in all of my life.  Ah well...

[bull]

You can get 1000 hp out a Supra but when it's all said and done you still have a Supra.

[Dino]

You can get 1000 hp out a Supra but when it's all said and done you still have a Supra.

Thank you!

I'll take a bone stock 2nd gen Charger over a souped up Supra any day of the week.   

[Ghoste]

Me too!!!!

[Indygenerallee]

myk, Yes I know they are hard to find and pricey.. There was a guy in our town that had one it was a non turbo automatic looked nice it had 175,000 miles on it and he wound up selling it for $13,500 about 4 years ago and I believe it was a 1995 model, I have seen many of the TT 6 speeds for around $35,000-45,000 I rank the styling right up there with the Viper GTS personally and I would take a Supra over a Viper only because I could never fit in a Viper!  ( I am 6'8 )

[Ghoste]

You could get the roadster. 

[Indygenerallee]

No I have personally had the chance to drive a Viper (I was a tech at a Dodge dealership) and my knees hit the dash before my ass hit the seat!! in both a RT/10 and GTS 

[Ghoste]

I just saw the 8 inch part now, so yeah that makes sense.  I am just under six foot and they fit me nicely so I can see where 9 inches taller would be a kneecapper.

[Indygenerallee]

Yes, it was a major letdown...