Storing crank shaft, can it warp?

[AKcharger]

I MOPAR pal whom I greatly respect said cranks can warp over time if laid on their side and the crank should be stood on end...is there any truth to this?

Thanks

[RD]

Bill,
  I just called my machine shop and they said yes, that overtime and due to the unequal pressure points on the crankshaft as it is laid on it side, it will warp the crank.  They have seen this happen with crankshafts that are on pallets and packaged in their own individual boxes.  After a while, they crank shaft would be warped up to 5 thousandths.
  My machinist said that cranks can be stored in two ways only, (1) standing on end or (2) laid on their side supported where they are supported on each main journal.

[AKcharger]

Wow...seems weird huh..I means it's a piece of steel! well thanks have to disassemble my engine for shipment and didn't want to mes anything up

Thanks!

[Rolling_Thunder]

yes they can warp...    shops usually stand them upright or sometimes hang them

[max]

i always build a wooden crate and stand them up in it, that way they are protected from getting pinged and they don't have a chance of warping.

[Runner]

hogwash,  its a myth. if it will warp then i dont want it in my motor!!

[firefighter3931]

hogwash,  its a myth. if it will warp then i dont want it in my motor!!

I agree....that's an old wives tale ! That would have to be one soft crank to warp just from sitting 

Ron

[kamkuda]

When they get delivered they are shipped on their side but with support.  I know the machine shop I use stands them all up, but I'll ask him

[Runner]

let me ask this,  if laying them down would cause them to warp then why wouldnt staning then on end cause them to bend?.   think about all the weight sitting on that bottom set of rod rod throws that are off set.     then think about the abuse a crank shaft takes. theres several reasons alot of people store them upright (myself included)  storage space is at the top of the list.

[ipstrategies]

How about camshaft storage? I have a replacement cam for my Charger, I picked it  up cheap and will not be using for a long time I hope. How should I store it? It is still in the Mopar box it came in. Should it be oiled, greased or anything?

[Runner]

just make sure it stays dry and doesnt corrode or rust.

[terrible one]

The machine shop I do business with stands them on end as well...

[Headrope]

let me ask this,  if laying them down would cause them to warp then why wouldnt staning then on end cause them to bend?.   think about all the weight sitting on that bottom set of rod rod throws that are off set.     then think about the abuse a crank shaft takes. theres several reasons alot of people store them upright (myself included)  storage space is at the top of the list.

... and it's much harder to trip on something you're affraid of knocking over.

[tecmopar]

At the shop they are stood on end for storage space, only because you can't stack them unless they are in their original wooden grate and then its only 4 high. When you lay one down, its resting on at least 2 of the counterweights so it would need to be made of butter for it to bend at all. On the NEW camshaft issue, it can be stored laying down ( same principle ), it should be coated with a smidge of cosmoline and wrapped in wax paper from the factory but keep a check on it as they don't do this very well anymore either, good luck.

[8WHEELER]

Yep, both of the machine shops I have used over 26yrs, both say the cranks should be stood on end   
So that is how I have allways done it, OK I will go out and tip my cranks back down 

Dan

[AKcharger]

You guys kill me!

[dodgecharger-fan]

Sounds like something that got started right after the "new kid" was sent over to the tool crib for a board stretcher and a bottle of headlght fluid.

"..and when you get back, make sure you stand those cranks up so they don't warp."

[resq302]

Actually, the guy who just rebuilt our engine for our el camino said that they should be stored upright or hung.  He has been building race engines and rebuilding various engines for the past 25 years and knows his stuff backwards.  He has even designed a machine to bore and deck a block without having to remove it from the jig.  He built steel cabinets where he has all of his cranks in slots where the end tht bolts up to the flywheel is.  The reason he said why it should be hung or stood on end is that the center focal point is directed toward the center of the shaft causing it to be balanced. 

[73chargers4404]

i allways just put the main bearings back in and lay it in the block

[AKcharger]

...well if you don't have a block, makes it hard

[Ghoste]

It takes less space to stand it upright and even if it is an old wives tale, it ain't hurting anything to keep it upright.  If it's not an old wives tale, (and if it is, it sure is a commonly accepted one), then you'll only help it.  At the very least, it won't be rolling around on the shop floor and inviting endless comments from people about how you're warping it leaving it on it's side.

[TylerCharger69]

sounds like a load of crap to me too...an old wivestale

[RD]

i just thought about something.... how can this be a wivestale?

when was the last time you had a wife tell you anything scientifically specific in regards to an automotive part.

urban legend sounds better don'cha thunk?  hehehe

[TylerCharger69]

lol...okay...ya got me...you are right!!!   wivestale was not an appropriate use of terms!!!...lol   I'll go with urban legend

[rt green]

YES IT CAN WARP!!! i've had automotive and deisel traing in my life and have been a mechanic for years. in all cases of school and the traing the factories give you they tell you to store it on end, or hang them. even more so on motorcycles. if you want vibration, go to the adult toy store.

[tan top]

yes they can warp...    shops usually stand them upright or sometimes hang them

     yes they warp   i've always  put an old balancer/ pulley back on the crank ,stand it up on a block wood , cover it with greese then put a plastic  over it, / if its a spare crank or you are not using for a while .

[RD]

hate to bring this old topic up, but here it goes:

According to the SUNNEN Manual for a Model DCB-750 crankshaft balancing machine, if:

"the crankshaft has been in the balancer for more than 4 hours:  (a) it is best to spin crank approximately 3 time's for it to 'straighten itself from any flexing which may have occurred."

There ya have it...

[Ghoste]

But does the manual tell you if it can take a set and stay warped??

[Rack]

I have an idea...


Every one at this site can pitch in an equal amount of money, and one of the mods can purchase a crank shaft.


That mod will then lay the crank shaft on it's side and take measurements every month to monitor whether it is warping or not. He will do this for a year.


If it hasn't warped in one year, it ain't gonna.


And since this is my idea the mod can then send me the crank shaft after the experiment is over. 

[RD]

But does the manual tell you if it can take a set and stay warped??

no it does not state anything to that regard.  the statement found in the manual was shown just to show all the naysayers that "yes, a crankshaft can warp/flex when laid on its side."

[smasherofall]

I guess I should stand mine up, I have room next to the batteries on the concrete floor.

[max]

i emailed this question to an engineer friend of mine who is also a fellow mopar lover and this is his take on the question and it makes alot of since when you read it.

My take on this is that if the crank is wimpy enough to bend standing up or laying on it's side, then it would never survive in an engine.  It is true that the crank will flex (ever so slightly), but it should be within the elastic range of the metal.  Typical most metals including steels have an elastic range that is linear up to the point engineers call the yield point.  Once you go past the yield point, the metal is permanently deformed.  This is referred to as plastic deformation.  I think plastic has a latin root that means to form or be formable.

Think of a piece of thin sheet metal.  You can flex the metal a little and it will spring back.  Bend it a lot and it is permanently bent and you can not really put it back into it's original form because on the outside of the bend, the metal is stretched, and comressed on the inside of the bend.

Think of how much force is on each piston and rod pushing on the crank and compare that to the 50-75 pounds of force due to gravity.  In a running engine, you would have bending loads caused by the offset between the rods and mains, but also torsional stresses front to back due to a resistive load applied at the flange (assuming you are not on ice and flooring the throttle) and the forces on the crank trying to overcome the resistance.  I would assume that the stresses in a running engine would be thousands of times higher than that of gravity trying to bend your crank.

[RD]

i emailed this question to an engineer friend of mine who is also a fellow mopar lover and this is his take on the question and it makes alot of since when you read it.

My take on this is that if the crank is wimpy enough to bend standing up or laying on it's side, then it would never survive in an engine.  It is true that the crank will flex (ever so slightly), but it should be within the elastic range of the metal.  Typical most metals including steels have an elastic range that is linear up to the point engineers call the yield point.  Once you go past the yield point, the metal is permanently deformed.  This is referred to as plastic deformation.  I think plastic has a latin root that means to form or be formable.

Think of a piece of thin sheet metal.  You can flex the metal a little and it will spring back.  Bend it a lot and it is permanently bent and you can not really put it back into it's original form because on the outside of the bend, the metal is stretched, and comressed on the inside of the bend.

Think of how much force is on each piston and rod pushing on the crank and compare that to the 50-75 pounds of force due to gravity.  In a running engine, you would have bending loads caused by the offset between the rods and mains, but also torsional stresses front to back due to a resistive load applied at the flange (assuming you are not on ice and flooring the throttle) and the forces on the crank trying to overcome the resistance.  I would assume that the stresses in a running engine would be thousands of times higher than that of gravity trying to bend your crank.

Those are good points.  I am no engineer, nor do I claim to be, but within an engine, the forces are constantly being equalled out (as close as possible) by the opposing forces from other cylinders acting on the crank in a synchronous manner.  The fact that the crankshaft is supported in 5 areas that allow for no up/down/side to side movement also allow for stability.  This is all not including the fact that the crankshaft is rotating and the inertia caused from this rotation allows for the crankshaft to remain to its true form.

I am not saying that the stresses of the engine do not have an effect.  What I am saying is that the crankshaft was made to work in that environment under those stressors.  It was not made to lie on its side and have its weight being focused on areas (i.e. counterweights) where its weight was not intended when engineered.  The crankshaft was engineered so that its weight would be supported by hardened main journals, not unhardened counterweights.

Your friend did state that a crank could flex ever so slightly.  Well, in engine building realms, ever so slightly will either give you a vibration or cause you to have to regrind yoru crankshaft due to the specific tolerances needed.

just my 2 pennies.

[max]

i emailed this question to an engineer friend of mine who is also a fellow mopar lover and this is his take on the question and it makes alot of since when you read it.

My take on this is that if the crank is wimpy enough to bend standing up or laying on it's side, then it would never survive in an engine.  It is true that the crank will flex (ever so slightly), but it should be within the elastic range of the metal.  Typical most metals including steels have an elastic range that is linear up to the point engineers call the yield point.  Once you go past the yield point, the metal is permanently deformed.  This is referred to as plastic deformation.  I think plastic has a latin root that means to form or be formable.

Think of a piece of thin sheet metal.  You can flex the metal a little and it will spring back.  Bend it a lot and it is permanently bent and you can not really put it back into it's original form because on the outside of the bend, the metal is stretched, and comressed on the inside of the bend.

Think of how much force is on each piston and rod pushing on the crank and compare that to the 50-75 pounds of force due to gravity.  In a running engine, you would have bending loads caused by the offset between the rods and mains, but also torsional stresses front to back due to a resistive load applied at the flange (assuming you are not on ice and flooring the throttle) and the forces on the crank trying to overcome the resistance.  I would assume that the stresses in a running engine would be thousands of times higher than that of gravity trying to bend your crank.

Those are good points.  I am no engineer, nor do I claim to be, but within an engine, the forces are constantly being equalled out (as close as possible) by the opposing forces from other cylinders acting on the crank in a synchronous manner.  The fact that the crankshaft is supported in 5 areas that allow for no up/down/side to side movement also allow for stability.  This is all not including the fact that the crankshaft is rotating and the inertia caused from this rotation allows for the crankshaft to remain to its true form.

I am not saying that the stresses of the engine do not have an effect.  What I am saying is that the crankshaft was made to work in that environment under those stressors.  It was not made to lie on its side and have its weight being focused on areas (i.e. counterweights) where its weight was not intended when engineered.  The crankshaft was engineered so that its weight would be supported by hardened main journals, not unhardened counterweights.

Your friend did state that a crank could flex ever so slightly.  Well, in engine building realms, ever so slightly will either give you a vibration or cause you to have to regrind yoru crankshaft due to the specific tolerances needed.

just my 2 pennies.

i know what you mean, i'm not an engineer either and as the points suggest there has to be certain bit of flexing for the crank or it would not be able to handle the stress of the rotating assembly.

if it didn't move or flex and take up the shock of the rotating assembly the crank would certainly break.

from the information that has been posted on this subject here and from others it suggest to me that indeed laying a crank on it's side would cause it to warp. 

based on the information suppied i will continue to stand my cranks up plus they take up less room that way.

[AKcharger]

wow this is still alive? I think I'm going to store it at a diaginal so either way it will be right

[SeattleCharger]

I guess I should stand mine up, I have room next to the batteries on the concrete floor.

I have heard standing it up is important, and I have also heard from a long time mechanic/rebuilder/teacher that it doesn't matter.    I don't know, but better safe than sorry if you have to choose a way.