70 petty/corporate blue

[pettybird]

So the PPG site is awful but they're under the impression that the colors are the same...notice the top line where you'll find both TB3 and 12785 are listed.  Don't know if this means conclusively that they're the same or if there's some laziness going on with regards to being 'close enough.'

[Aero426]

There is a Chrysler TSB in 1966 referencing a 999 code Petty Blue special ordered as PPG 12783.  I am curious as to how that differs.   

[pettybird]

Remember the site sucking?  The 12783 formula isn't available in Deltron, so here are the two formulas in Delstar with TB3 first.  This would be a lot easier to read if we knew how far apart DMR411 was from DMR410.

The autocolorlibrary.com sheet for 1966 doesn't show Corporation Blue on it so I can't tell if it was a companywide thing or not for that year.

[rickroadrunner]

Interesting all of these blues!. We mixed B3 and a later Chrysler Corporate Blue and they were different. The 999 blue is different also.
We should have a new Glasurit color chip shortly to match the color we have mixed.
I guess if you are building a clone, you would probably paint it the closest to original Petty blue and not bother with trying to duplicate the original 999 blue.

[Ghoste]

How many would know anyway?

[pettybird]

How many would know anyway?

Probably no one, but I'm not sure that's the point...it should be right on a car so rare.  If it's done wrong then that stuff just becomes "fact" after a while, and that drives me nuts.


I talked to Jimmy Chips at TCP Global (he's their vintage paint guy) who told me that the 12785 and 2423 color codes are definitely different.  I told him that I thought so, and that Corporation blue seemed to be "whiter," and he said that sounded right by looking at the formulas.  He said that the online guide I had was the software for their newer paint mixing stations, and that most of the older colors were simply close enough...they work a lot harder on the newer formulas.  On the old hard copies the formulas are what they should be. 

I know this helps you very little since we're talking about two different manufacturers' products, but PPG was the original supplier and they have the cards going back to the good ol' days.  It really would be best to send what you have and see how well it matches up with my car, double d's, Steve Fox's or Tim Welborn's cars. 

[Ghoste]

Oh I agree 100%, I was only speaking to building a clone.

[Aero426]

I talked to Jimmy Chips at TCP Global (he's their vintage paint guy)

A paint guy named Jimmy Chips?    That's a great name for the job!    

[rainbow4jd]

It would seem like the 783 has more black in it, and inherently would be a darker or deeper blue.   I can also tell you from basic art school stuff, that the Petty color has to have some yellow in it (perhaps the original blue paint that Richard Petty had - shared a little yellow) - so I'm inclined to say the 785 is the likelier culprit *** BUT THAT'S JUST MY OPINION FROM USING THE CRAYONS THE THERAPIST LETS ME PLAY WITH WHEN THEY TAKE MY STRAIGHT JACKET OFF.

Remember the site sucking?  The 12783 formula isn't available in Deltron, so here are the two formulas in Delstar with TB3 first.  This would be a lot easier to read if we knew how far apart DMR411 was from DMR410.

The autocolorlibrary.com sheet for 1966 doesn't show Corporation Blue on it so I can't tell if it was a companywide thing or not for that year.

[DoubleDlover]

Heres a pic of one of my fender scoops. I think being color that's underneath and all the way to the front would make the color pretty close and not sun faded. I took the pic In the house under a lamp. So I don't think the color in the pic is showing the true color here. But you get the idea.  r

[odcics2]

Yeah - looks like Corporate Blue in that lighting!   

Lighting is HUGE when it comes to photos and the camera, and film, in the old days is a big factor.

As I mentioned way above - there is a video on aerowarriors.com showing the 88 Daytona next to Pettys Ford in 69 at Talladega.   "Perfect match"   

Both in the same lighting, camera and film...  no guesswork!

[winged69]

Interesting site is www.pantherpink.com and it also has a list of the color mixes I do believe.  Take a look at the panther pink mopars

[nascarxx29]

  69 AMX SS car also used a #12785 Petty blue type color
http://classicrecollections.com/2012/07/02/feature-1969-amc-amx/

[nascarxx29]

If this is a true 999 car this petty blue shade looks light 
        http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj149/10456_album/scrapbird.jpg

[v21hemicharger]

I looked at my paint.  It is the 12783 and is under Petty Richard (racing).

[pettybird]

If this is a true 999 car this petty blue shade looks light 
        http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj149/10456_album/scrapbird.jpg

it REALLY gets chalky when it oxidizes

[odcics2]

IMO - from what I have seen over the years, "real' Corp. Blue appears a bit darker then the usual color called Petty Blue.
Also - I have seen the two colors interchanged as one another.    And to toss this into the mix (pun intended) just like anything else, the formula numbers on paint
can come out different on different machines and the company you are using.
There are a lot of variables.

Personally, I'd match a color to a known sample you want to duplicate and stay away from the "Paint by Number" route.   

[Ghoste]

I imagine there would even be some difference detectable on the same color painted a couple of years apart from the factory (eg. a blue shot in 68 could be visibly off from one done in 70) ?

[odcics2]

I'd agree.  Look at very early Petty Plymouths compared to later ones in the 60s. 

Of course, you are at the mercy of the film, camera, exposure setting, etc.....   

[Ghoste]

Yes, and acutally I was just talking about the factory cars if you stood two survivors side by side today but even then you coudln't be sure.  Maybe one was out in the sun more or whatever.

[odcics2]

Or built at different plants... 

[rickroadrunner]

I have sprayed some paint samples, would you guys who have original 999 corporate blue cars mind PM me with your address and I will post over a sample card to check against some original paint.
Thanks

[pettybird]

I have sprayed some paint samples, would you guys who have original 999 corporate blue cars mind PM me with your address and I will post over a sample card to check against some original paint.
Thanks

I sent you mine.  I'm sure that doubled and I can get together and mail them after we're done with them to see how they compare to each others' cars, too.  Once the letter is in the states it'll cost us like a dollar to send it around 

[rainbow4jd]

This is the same information I got.  >> PPG Brand Code 2423 :  dt8221, ay69tb3, tar1b3, ay1tb3  "corporation blue"

I talked to a paint guy at PPG in Pittsburgh (my son did an internship at PPG and is a chemical engineer himself) and the guy said (paraphrased)...

"paint has two elements to it - visibility factor and chemical mix factor - you can routinely find different mix factors that are indistinguishable to the naked eye from a visibility standpoint - and we have naked eye simulators to test it.    The mixes change more often than you think due to cost factors for tints OR due to changes in painting technology.   We now may be able to add an additive to keep colors from fading, where in the past we had to do a paint mix to accomplish the same thing.      Also old paint oxidizes, so the person who has an unrestored car doesn't have accurate paint.  You would need to find a sealed sample of actual paint to do a true color match.  On a car, you need a surface that has never been exposed to sunlight and kept in a low humidity/very dry area with no airflow - maybe an original pre-painted boxed part.  Otherwide, don't sweat the mix - you can't tell the difference, and the guy who says he can is probably just annoying."

[Ghoste]

Thats what I've always thought about color as well.  Being able to tell the shades with the naked eye like that is just not possible.