Not many 68s and 69s around these days?

[xs29bb1]

I travel a lot for work, so I pick up a Hemmings catalog or something similar just to look through and see what's out there while I'm on the plane. Obviously there's the long laundry list of Mustangs, Chevelles, and Camaros, and there are literally a few dozen say 67 Vettes for sale (most of which having been fully restored) and even a lot of split windows. 

There's even a fair number of Buicks, 442s, Road Runners, Bees, Cudas, and Challengers, but man I just don't see many (sometimes ANY) 68 or 69 Chargers.

And for whatever reason, whenever I do see a 68 Charger, 8 times out of 10 it's a highly modified car that barely looks like a Charger anymore. 

Am I the only one seeing this?  Why aren't there more restored 68s and 69s around?  They weren't necessarily rarer than a few of the other cars that I see out there all the time.  And I don't remember it being like this even a year and a half ago.  Anybody got an explanation, or am I just imagining this?

[1974dodgecharger]

Look at sales during the era you will see why the charger is coveted, beautiful, and rare compared to the other 2 auto makers.  I believe mustang made/sold like 400k in 68 and only 90k chargers.  That's off top of my head, guess estimate.

Mustang was also cheaper vs chargers....either way its a beautiful car as James may would say ,the mustang became marlon Brando while the charger was James dean.

[myk]

They were rare when they were new, they were rare when no one wanted them in the late 70's, 80's and 90's when I got mine, and they're even more rare now.  So rare in fact, that a VIN number on something little more than a hulk of rusted steel that once held a Hemi/4 speed combination will sell for a small fortune...

[Ghoste]

It could also be that the people who booger them up are the ones who never truly loved the model to begin with and the people who do aren't inclined to sell them.  Ignore the Hemmings ads and stay with this crowd.

[Baldwinvette77]

i only ever saw 2 on the road, compared to maybe 70? mustangs, dozens of camaros...

[Dino]

I restored cars for 15 years and much of my customers did not have a specific car in mind to own, but wanted a nice classic.  With that mindset, if any decent classic is okay, would you buy the rare and expensive to restore Charger or the readily available with affordable parts Chevelle?

We love the Chargers but this is not a universal thing.  I rarely get a thumbs up from people when I drive my car, when I do it's usually a truck driver.  Most people I work with 'like' the car but would much rather have a Mustang or Chevelle.  Just as with anything good taste, the real good stuff is for the minority.  The majority of people will buy the crap the neighbor has.   

[xs29bb1]

Oh yeah, I get the differences in production numbers. Certainly Mustangs, Camaros, and Chevelles are more prevelant.  But look at a 67 Vette.  This is now a 60-120k car... And there's so many of them for sale

I see a 60s Vette around town every few weeks.  I also see Road Runners, Challengers, and Cudas.... But I never see another Charger. 

I mean, that's fine by me, but I'd think that since Chargers are desireable, more people would be restoring them and trying to sell them like they do with the Cudas, Challengers, and the like - and since everyone can't afford 90k cars, the market for restored 67 Vettes would be smaller.

I guess bottom line is that Chargers aren't really rarer than Challengers, Cudas, or Road Runners so why are there so many more of them around? 

[Dino]

Oh yeah, I get the differences in production numbers. Certainly Mustangs, Camaros, and Chevelles are more prevelant.  But look at a 67 Vette.  This is now a 60-120k car... And there's so many of them for sale

I see a 60s Vette around town every few weeks.  I also see Road Runners, Challengers, and Cudas.... But I never see another Charger. 

I mean, that's fine by me, but I'd think that since Chargers are desireable, more people would be restoring them and trying to sell them like they do with the Cudas, Challengers, and the like - and since everyone can't afford 90k cars, the market for restored 67 Vettes would be smaller.

I guess bottom line is that Chargers aren't really rarer than Challengers, Cudas, or Road Runners so why are there so many more of them around? 

Maybe area specific?  I live close to Detroit and have never seen a Cuda.  I've seen one Challenger and one roadrunner and as far as I can tell I'm the only one around driving a Charger.  I keep tripping over the GM and Ford cars though.   

[1974dodgecharger]

Same in Phoenix, I see vetted, mustangs, Chevys very rare I see mopar.  The only car I swear people see around my neighborhood is my charger lol and they think its beautiful compared to other classics they seen.

When they start a convo, they usually say, wow I heard of them but don't see them in real life.

Oh yeah, I get the differences in production numbers. Certainly Mustangs, Camaros, and Chevelles are more prevelant.  But look at a 67 Vette.  This is now a 60-120k car... And there's so many of them for sale

I see a 60s Vette around town every few weeks.  I also see Road Runners, Challengers, and Cudas.... But I never see another Charger. 

I mean, that's fine by me, but I'd think that since Chargers are desireable, more people would be restoring them and trying to sell them like they do with the Cudas, Challengers, and the like - and since everyone can't afford 90k cars, the market for restored 67 Vettes would be smaller.

I guess bottom line is that Chargers aren't really rarer than Challengers, Cudas, or Road Runners so why are there so many more of them around? 

Maybe area specific?  I live close to Detroit and have never seen a Cuda.  I've seen one Challenger and one roadrunner and as far as I can tell I'm the only one around driving a Charger.  I keep tripping over the GM and Ford cars though.   

[4cruzin]

All I know is when we went to the MOPAR nationals this year, there were 4 or 5 1968 chargers for sale in the car coral and no others . . . . We couldn't believe all the 68's!   I don't know anything about production numbers but did they make more 68's than the other years?   

[Ghoste]

1973 was actually the highest production year.

[Lord Warlock]

Chargers, at least the 2nd gen ones, have always been a rare sight on the roads.  Especially the RT models.  Even back in the 70s when i got mine, I never ran across more than a token few, you had to go search to find them.  I went to lots of shows throughout my 20s and 30s, and was lucky if i saw 2 or 3 chargers at a show that had 5000 entrants.  When it dwindled down to 1 or less, I stopped going to big shows.  Now, about the only time you see a charger is on TV or in the movies, and they always manage to kill it for some reason, just can't let people have pristine undented examples.  Maybe the fact that they do look aerodynamic is why people keep trying to get them airborne, they really do perform better with 4 tires on the pavement, and they handle quite well for a large heavy car.

However, its rarity is one reason why I held on to mine all these years, the goal was to have a car that almost noone else drove, so it would stand out amongst the horde of mustangs, camaros and firebirds.  I have no interest in collecting cars, or buying investment cars, they rarely work out for large profits, unless you find a hemi or an extremely rare example.  I normally just buy a car, pay it off, then store it and buy another.  Over time they accumulate  and get more expensive to fix.  

[Cooter]

Rare don't ness. Mean popular, and popular don't ness. Mean rare.
Everybody, even some diehards here, would love to own a 1967 427 Sting Ray if for nothing else than for the same reason as owning a Hemi car..because its 'look at me my junk is worth a fortune'.. Nobody buys this car because it handles so well, or because it's comfortable.

Charger same thing, only less numbers built.

[69chargerboy]

Look at sales during the era you will see why the charger is coveted, beautiful, and rare compared to the other 2 auto makers.  I believe mustang made/sold like 400k in 68 and only 90k chargers.  That's off top of my head, guess estimate.

Mustang was also cheaper vs chargers....either way its a beautiful car as James may would say ,the mustang became marlon Brando while the charger was James dean.

I believe Richard Hammond made the quote.. 

Just bustin your chops 

[Ghoste]

Whoever made it, it's a good one. 

[will721]

They are indeed rare. I've been looking for one that I could afford for years. Truth be told, I've been drooling over these cars since I was very young. Yet I've only seen a hand full in person, and I can name every single one of them. There are three general lee clones that roam around my area together, I've only ever seen them on the road. There was one overly customized 69 a local expo center about 5 years ago.  I remember seeing one years ago at a small local show. My favorite though was Del Worsham's 68, which we seen when one of his mechanics let us in his private shop outside of indy. Triple black car, gorgeous. He also had a tank.

Only ever seen a few local second gens online. They usually are in one of three categories. Old restorations at extremely high prices, rusted out basket cases whose owners think they are worth their weight in gold and occasionally overly customized cars that for some reason have even higher prices than the original ones. They are becoming increasingly rare as well.

The idea of collecting cars in a garage to collect dust irritates me. These cares aren't really all that rare. It just seems like most of them are kept in collections since they are worth quite a bit of money. Once summer comes around I see all kinds of other cars. Mustangs all over the place, theres usually atleast a dozen Camaros at every show. Rarety vs value is usually the cause. I see much rarer cars that just aren't as valuable more often then I see second gens. Theres a few guys in town with original 50s gassers that are driven all the time.

That's why I joined this board. I love second gen chargers. Visiting here I can have all the eye candy I like. Not to mention learning more about them then I ever would watching tv or reading magazines.

[JB400]

I think part of the reason is there has been a muscle car boom outside of the US.  Just look in the Netherlands Registry.
http://www.charger.nl/

There is 51 69 Chargers, 54 68's, and 22 70's registered.  Who knows how many are unregistered  While this amount may be small, multiply that by every country in Europe, and then throw in a few other countries like Australia, and you'll get a good idea of where some of these cars are going.

Also, I believe that owners are just holding on to them longer than normal.

[Back N Black]

The majority out there love the mustangs and camaros, that's why you see them everywhere. Not everyone thinks the Charger is the BEST muscle car ever. I have friends that don't like my charger at all, its been refered to as a land yacht, boat, tank......

[Dino]

The majority out there love the mustangs and camaros, that's why you see them everywhere. Not everyone thinks the Charger is the BEST muscle car ever. I have friends that don't like my charger at all, its been refered to as a land yacht, boat, tank......

Same here.  Of all the dozens and dozens of people I work with, there are maybe a handful that like it.  Not love it, like it.

[xs29bb1]

I think part of the reason is there has been a muscle car boom outside of the US.  Just look in the Netherlands Registry.
http://www.charger.nl/

There is 51 69 Chargers, 54 68's, and 22 70's registered.  Who knows how many are unregistered  While this amount may be small, multiply that by every country in Europe, and then throw in a few other countries like Australia, and you'll get a good idea of where some of these cars are going.

Also, I believe that owners are just holding on to them longer than normal.

This is a great point  I know the B-bodies have become quite popular in Australia and other countries.  I've been told (with no exact numbers to back this up) that E-bodies are more desired in the US, but outside the US it's the B-body.

If there is a disproportionate number of B-bodies leaving the US, that would explain why it seems there are less and less of them for sale here every few years

[Dino]

More Chargers were trashed before they saw their first birthday than were ever exported.

Disclaimer: I have no data to support my claim yet I doubt that those relatively few cars going overseas would make the Charger a rare sight to behold on US roads.  We are talking  handful to Oz and a handful to Western Europe.  The few you find in the rest of the world would be the equivalent of a good day of shooting doh.  Insignificant. 

As was stated previously, they were rare when they were brand new (again relatively).

How many were crashed by teenagers?  How many were taken to the junk yard and how many lived to see 10 years?  If you lived in the north part of the country, chances were it never got very old. 

Also, how do you know how many are left?  For all we know, we all have a neighbor with one.  Seeing how many members here use the car as shelving or other dust collection device, who knows what's out there?  Not everyone with a Charger spends time on this board either.

Shows may be an indicator of classic cars left, but it's certainly not a means to get solid data either.  I put a few thousand miles on my car every year, yet you'll never see it at a show.

[John L]

I must live in a strange area. Within a 1.5 mile radius I can count 3 Chargers, a 68 & 69, and my 70. A 2 owner Superbird, Hemi GTX, 69 Road Runner, and a 71 Challenger. Three of those cars are on the same street as I live on.

[Dino]

I must live in a strange area. Within a 1.5 mile radius I can count 3 Chargers, a 68 & 69, and my 70. A 2 owner Superbird, Hemi GTX, 69 Road Runner, and a 71 Challenger. Three of those cars are on the same street as I live on.

I think that would have been rare in 1971 downtown Hamtramck!

[HeavyFuel]

So...

Who would like to venture a guess on how many exist today?  And by "exist", we should agree that it's basically a car that is driving, or would be driveable with a reasonable amount of work/$$......not some total basket case roosting in a shelter belt.

Has anyone with good data and an analytical mind come up with some kind of ballpark figure, based on facts and variables like production numbers, attrition, shelf life, desirability, price of scrap metal, horsepower, "Cash for Clunkers"..........whatever?

Let's take '68 models.....roughly 90,000 built.  Do we think that there are 5,000 left?  2,500?   Maybe a thousand?   

[Dino]

So...

Who would like to venture a guess on how many exist today?  And by "exist", we should agree that it's basically a car that is driving, or would be driveable with a reasonable amount of work/$$......not some total basket case roosting in a shelter belt.

Has anyone with good data and an analytical mind come up with some kind of ballpark figure, based on facts and variables like production numbers, attrition, shelf life, desirability, price of scrap metal, horsepower, "Cash for Clunkers"..........whatever?

Let's take '68 models.....roughly 90,000 built.  Do we think that there are 5,000 left?  2,500?   Maybe a thousand?

We have done this a few times in the past, but without any real figures it's all guesswork and the numbers are all over the place.  Heck, we can't even agree on the value of a car and we're supposed to be the experts.   

[cdr]

ok I'll play,,,i would GUESS 15K LEFT 

[hatersaurusrex]

I think something often overlooked is the fact that low build numbers have far more consequences than just how many cars are out there to be restored - I think it's also impacted how many restorable cars are left to rot becuase of scarcity of parts.   Think of it this way:

Chevy and Ford built something like 4 million Camaros and Mustangs during the same span as the 2nd gen B-Bodies - which only saw about 250K cars produced.   So when that owner who put his Camaro up on blocks in 1979 finally decided to get off his ass and fix it a decade later, there were probably 2  million sitting in junk yards to pick parts from, probably still tons of NOS parts you could  get straight from the dealer, not to mention the crapload of small block donor motors and trannies (the car kind, not the sissy boy kind).   And look! Fenders for 50 bucks right there in the JC Whitney catalog!   Hell, he probably saw a homeless guy in a vacant lot just this morning cooking beans using an NOS 396 oilpan as a pot and a tri-power manifold as a camp stove.   That crap is everywhere.

Meanwhile, the 2nd Gen charger owner only has maybe 50K cars nationwide to choose from, and when spread out all over the country, that's not a ton of cars per junk yard.  Plus the General Lee builders cleared out all the good parts 10 years ago and decided to wreck, rinse, repeat until all the front end parts were dried up.  Dodge dealers didn't stock nearly as many NOS parts because they didn't sell that many of the cars to start with, and had been picked over too.   Finally, no AMD repops will happen for another 10 years and our Charger owner doesn't feel much inclined to put thousands of dollars and hours work into a car that will be a bondo bomb anyway.  So, he quits on on the project and sells it for cheap.   The next guy sits on it for 5 years or so before getting off his ass to start the project, and maybe he slathers it up good with filler even gets it to primer.   Then one day he sees a Barrett-Jackson auction, and then thinks 'oh hell, I better keep that car, it's gonna be worth 100 grand or more!'.  He sits on it for ANOTHER 5 years while it takes up his mother-in-laws carport space and collects rodents and rust.  He THEN hears about a new thing called 'the internet' so he goes online and sees 5 restored cars like his with ASKING prices of 75K and thinks his car could bring way more than that with just a paint job.   He's validated!  He's gonna be rich! So he sits on it and laughs when he gets offered the 5-10K it's worth.   This guy is currently watching every single car restoration show on Velocity and Discovery and dreaming about one day when he'll sell his 318 powered rustbucket for enough money to retire on.

And this is all you see all over ebay and craigslist, is a bunch of 4th and 5th owners of cars who think they're sitting on a goldmine while the car rots into the ground and gets closer and closer to never ever coming back.

[Dino]

I think something often overlooked is the fact that low build numbers have far more consequences than just how many cars are out there to be restored - I think it's also impacted how many restorable cars are left to rot becuase of scarcity of parts.   Think of it this way:

Chevy and Ford built something like 4 million Camaros and Mustangs during the same span as the 2nd gen B-Bodies - which only saw about 250K cars produced.   So when that owner who put his Camaro up on blocks in 1979 finally decided to get off his ass and fix it a decade later, there were probably 2  million sitting in junk yards to pick parts from, probably still tons of NOS parts you could  get straight from the dealer, not to mention the crapload of small block donor motors and trannies (the car kind, not the sissy boy kind).   And look! Fenders for 50 bucks right there in the JC Whitney catalog!   Hell, he probably saw a homeless guy in a vacant lot just this morning cooking beans using an NOS 396 oilpan as a pot and a tri-power manifold as a camp stove.   That crap is everywhere.

Meanwhile, the 2nd Gen charger owner only has maybe 50K cars nationwide to choose from, and when spread out all over the country, that's not a ton of cars per junk yard.  Plus the General Lee builders cleared out all the good parts 10 years ago and decided to wreck, rinse, repeat until all the front end parts are dried up.  Dodge dealers didn't stock nearly as many NOS parts because they didn't sell that many of the cars to start with, and what was there is slim pickings.   Finally, no AMD repops will happen for another 10 years and our Charger owner knows he's gonna put a lot of work into a car full of bondo.  So, he quits on on the project and sells it for cheap.   The next guy sits on it for 5 years or so before getting off his ass to start the project, but one day he sees a Barrett-Jackson auction, and then thinks 'oh hell, I better keep that car, it's gonna be worth 100 grand or more!'.  He sits on it for ANOTHER 5 years while it takes up his mother-in-laws carport space and collects rodents and rust.  He THEN hears about a new thing called 'the internet' so he goes online and sees 5 restored cars like his with ASKING prices of 75K and thinks his car could bring way more than that with just a paint job.   He's validated!  He's gonna be rich! So he sits on it and laughs when he gets offered the 5-10K it's worth.   This guy is currently watching every single car restoration show on Velocity and Discovery and dreaming about one day when he'll sell his 318 powered rustbucket for

And this is all you see all over ebay and craigslist, is a bunch of 4th and 5th owners of cars who think they're sitting on a goldmine while the car rots into the ground and gets closer and closer to never ever coming back.

Funny as this is, there's a lot of truth in there unfortunately.  Hell, you probably made a few members cry.   

[cdr]

X2 dino

[hatersaurusrex]

I think something often overlooked is the fact that low build numbers have far more consequences than just how many cars are out there to be restored - I think it's also impacted how many restorable cars are left to rot becuase of scarcity of parts.   Think of it this way:

Chevy and Ford built something like 4 million Camaros and Mustangs during the same span as the 2nd gen B-Bodies - which only saw about 250K cars produced.   So when that owner who put his Camaro up on blocks in 1979 finally decided to get off his ass and fix it a decade later, there were probably 2  million sitting in junk yards to pick parts from, probably still tons of NOS parts you could  get straight from the dealer, not to mention the crapload of small block donor motors and trannies (the car kind, not the sissy boy kind).   And look! Fenders for 50 bucks right there in the JC Whitney catalog!   Hell, he probably saw a homeless guy in a vacant lot just this morning cooking beans using an NOS 396 oilpan as a pot and a tri-power manifold as a camp stove.   That crap is everywhere.

Meanwhile, the 2nd Gen charger owner only has maybe 50K cars nationwide to choose from, and when spread out all over the country, that's not a ton of cars per junk yard.  Plus the General Lee builders cleared out all the good parts 10 years ago and decided to wreck, rinse, repeat until all the front end parts are dried up.  Dodge dealers didn't stock nearly as many NOS parts because they didn't sell that many of the cars to start with, and what was there is slim pickings.   Finally, no AMD repops will happen for another 10 years and our Charger owner knows he's gonna put a lot of work into a car full of bondo.  So, he quits on on the project and sells it for cheap.   The next guy sits on it for 5 years or so before getting off his ass to start the project, but one day he sees a Barrett-Jackson auction, and then thinks 'oh hell, I better keep that car, it's gonna be worth 100 grand or more!'.  He sits on it for ANOTHER 5 years while it takes up his mother-in-laws carport space and collects rodents and rust.  He THEN hears about a new thing called 'the internet' so he goes online and sees 5 restored cars like his with ASKING prices of 75K and thinks his car could bring way more than that with just a paint job.   He's validated!  He's gonna be rich! So he sits on it and laughs when he gets offered the 5-10K it's worth.   This guy is currently watching every single car restoration show on Velocity and Discovery and dreaming about one day when he'll sell his 318 powered rustbucket for

And this is all you see all over ebay and craigslist, is a bunch of 4th and 5th owners of cars who think they're sitting on a goldmine while the car rots into the ground and gets closer and closer to never ever coming back.

Funny as this is, there's a lot of truth in there unfortunately.  Hell, you probably made a few members cry.   

Yeah I'm not out to pick at anyone.  I probably would have been that same guy had I gotten the car 20 years ago, but I was broke as crap 20 years ago, too

[Ghoste]

The generally accepted survival rate on musclecars is around 20%.

[Lord Warlock]

Attrition estimates are approximately 10% per year, for the first 10 years.  After 20 years it goes down a bit as people are either storing them or not driving them near as often.  I'm sure someone could do the math year by year to get an estimate, but that's all it would be, since many of us don't register the cars year after year if it is in storage.  I haven't registered mine since 84.  It would fit in the category of a potential driver though, the motor is in and it runs fine, but needs brake work and fuel system work before it will see street time, and its currently undergoing both since i'm out of work and have extra time available.  

Also, people didn't always know if a car was a rare one or a common one, other than the obvious clues of an RT badge.  When I bought mine I had never heard of an RT SE, and only after i researched it alot in the library (no internet back then) did i find only around 4600 were built.  Still really don't know how many of this color combo were made, just know until this year it was the only one i'd ever seen like it.  The duplicate is a boardmember and his was built on the same day as mine was.  His is also in better shape than mine is.

[Dino]

Yeah I'm not out to pick at anyone.  I probably would have been that same guy had I gotten the car 20 years ago, but I was broke as crap 20 years ago, too

We've all been in situations like that, it comes with the territory.  I pity the owner who has the dream car but is in way over his/her head.  
Those folks need some support and this is the place for it.

Those that have the light shining in their face yet blatantly ignore it...not so much pity.

Those that know full well they are ripping people off...well it is supposed to be a family friendly site so let's leave it at that.

[hatersaurusrex]

Yeah I agree totally on the people who are rip-off artists.  

I also know a lot of people with a classic but without the means to fix it will hold on to it simply becuase it allows them to keep dreaming.  Deep down they probably know they can't sell it for much, nor will they ever really have the means to fix it up right.    But they assume somewhere down the road things will change, and life just has a way of getting in the way of hobbies and dreams.

There's a ton of owners sitting on a rustbucket who probably look at it once a week and imagine driving it fully restored, windows down, and it makes them feel good, and so it's worth it to hold on to the car because people don't want to sell their dreams.   I fully understand that.   Then somebody comes along and says 'Your dream is worth maybe 1500 bucks on a good day, so I brought a grand in cash since you're obviously stupid for holding on to this car'.  Then they don't understand why the door gets slammed in their face.    

[Dino]

Yeah I agree totally on the people who are rip-off artists.  

I also know a lot of people with a classic but without the means to fix it will hold on to it simply becuase it allows them to keep dreaming.  Deep down they probably know they can't sell it for much, nor will they ever really have the means to fix it up right.    But they assume somewhere down the road things will change, and life just has a way of getting in the way of hobbies and dreams.

There's a ton of owners sitting on a rustbucket who probably look at it once a week and imagine driving it fully restored, windows down, and it makes them feel good, and so it's worth it to hold on to the car because people don't want to sell their dreams.   I fully understand that.   Then somebody comes along and says 'Your dream is worth maybe 1500 bucks on a good day, so I brought a grand in cash since you're obviously stupid for holding on to this car'.  Then they don't understand why the door gets slammed in their face.    

I fully agree.  I have been one of those potential buyers and all I can tell the seller (if they are normal and nice) that I will not be making an offer as the asking price and my offer will be too far removed to come to an agreement.  Most people can read between the lines and appreciate the wording.  No sense in being a jerk and pissing off someone, we have plenty of those in the world.  I get annoyed just reading some member's posts here.   

[HeavyFuel]

True statement someone mentioned that hidden chargers could be all over......but you'd never know.

Not 5 miles from me is a guy with a wealth of Chargers and MOPAR parts in general......and I mean lots of stuff.  He has parted out oodles of cars in his life and moved the stuff to eager restorers.

He's kept a few of the nicer Chargers for himself, but I've never seen him driving around.  Not at shows, cruise night...nothing.  One of his prizes is a '70 plum crazy RT/SE four speed car.  He's got a HEMI car that's been under resto for years.   Too busy working to finish it, I guess.

So this guy's got maybe 5 nice chargers, and they rarely if ever see the light of day.  

[Troy]

So...

Who would like to venture a guess on how many exist today?  And by "exist", we should agree that it's basically a car that is driving, or would be driveable with a reasonable amount of work/$$......not some total basket case roosting in a shelter belt.

Has anyone with good data and an analytical mind come up with some kind of ballpark figure, based on facts and variables like production numbers, attrition, shelf life, desirability, price of scrap metal, horsepower, "Cash for Clunkers"..........whatever?

Let's take '68 models.....roughly 90,000 built.  Do we think that there are 5,000 left?  2,500?   Maybe a thousand?   

The generally accepted survival rate on musclecars is around 20%.

I'd say somewhere between 20-30%. A while back when I was really looking I inspected over 200 68 Chargers that were somewhat local to me (within a couple hours drive). And those were just the ones I found for sale! I ended up buying 5 so most weren't all that great. Now this was 8-10 years ago before you could get all the reproduction parts that are available now AND I live in the Midwest where a lot of these cars were sold (and still remain). If I can see this many in person then there's certainly several thousand known to the public at any given time. I'd bet there are more hidden away than known - at least well known. I can think of several dozen Mopars in barns and garages that haven't seen daylight in 30 years.

It does seem like you don't see a lot of Chargers out and about. I can think of 15-16 drivable 68s in the area but probably only see 4-5 of them out in any given year. When I used to attend one particular cruise-in there could be as many as 5 Chargers out of 12-15 total cars. Not so these days. Now that someone mentioned it, I believe it is more likely that I'll see an E body than any B body. Odd when you consider the sheer number of Satellites, Belvederes, Coronets, Roadrunners, and GTXs that were produced.

Troy

[Ghoste]

True, it seems even in the world of well documented collector cars like Shelby Cobras there are previously thought destroyed examples coming out of the woodwork every once in a while.

[Lord Warlock]

I'd say many of us hoarders have an understanding of where current values are, or were at one time.  Although many don't think about it often.  The longer it sits neglected the less people think about it.  The problem is that if it sits a long time and starts rusting away, the people realize repairing it is beyond their mechanical ability, and then its a matter of deciding to spend money on a car that just sits there and isn't being used.  I'm kind of like that with my stealth, I hate to spend money on it while its not being used, and can't sell it till i get it running and roadworthy.  I also refuse to give away a car I spent over 20k fixing up 10 years ago. (not counting the original 23k price of the car).  

It usually takes something dramatic to shake us out of the doldrums of leaving it to sit and rot.  It took the death of a close friend my age to force me off my butt and get started on mine.  Realized if i kept ignoring it, I'd probably never see it on the road again, and vowed to make sure I was able to drive and enjoy it again. 

The e-body preference may change in the future, since you can buy newer challengers that look alot like the old ones and are alot easier to drive, and just as fast.  Plus they get just as much attention or more.  

[RallyeMike]

It doesn't seem like anyone drives their classic car anymore. I guess they are too precious. Hell, it's sp bland on the street anymore that I saw a jacked up 70s Maverick yesterday and actually got excited. Even a GM metric car on donks is something not boring. I may need help.

[Lord Warlock]

its not that they are too precious, its because the roads are filled with idiots talking on phones, or texting while driving.  While the old charger stops, it doesn't stop near as well as a new car does.  And around here traffic is heavy all the time, the charger was alot of fun on the interstate in the 80s which didn't seem so crowded, or back roads of Alabama where you didn't see a car for miles.

[Mike DC]

 
I agree that the low production numbers causes a snowball of factors to make the owners keep them parked even more than most other cars of the period.   

 

[myk]

its not that they are too precious, its because the roads are filled with idiots talking on phones, or texting while driving.  While the old charger stops, it doesn't stop near as well as a new car does.  And around here traffic is heavy all the time, the charger was alot of fun on the interstate in the 80s which didn't seem so crowded, or back roads of Alabama where you didn't see a car for miles.

I....WAS the king of proclaiming that anyone who didn't drive their classic, their Charger as often as possible was a waste of life.  However, as these cars get more rare and increasingly expensive to maintain, repair or replace I find myself guilty of hoarding and hiding my Charger from the hazardous public.  At this point in my life I've decided the Charger is for my own personal enjoyment and fulfillment; I don't care if the public knows that I have it or what they think of it or whatever the f**k.  My sweet time with the Charger takes place at about 2 in the AM, with nothing but empty stretches of freeway and the stars to guide me...

[Lord Warlock]

Have to agree with you there.  The charger is for my personal satisfaction, and i don't care if the rest of the family doesn't care, and just don't want to risk driving it around the morons with cell phones glued to their ears.  I think i'm getting old, when i'm in the car, i don't want to talk on the phone, if i'm not sitting at my desk, or in my chair at home, I don't need to talk to anyone.  My cell is only along with me for the off chance that the car breaks down.  Its safer to play at night (plus its cooler so the cars run better)

[Ghoste]

I'm lucky to live in a more rural area so I have a lot of empty back roads to travel.  I see a lot of old cars out, sadly even one or two out now in salt season on occasion, but I don't see a lot of Chargers.  Not out of Charger scarcity overall but just because this area saw a LOT of high performance Fords sold out of a local dealership that ran a very competetive Super Stock team in the sixties.
There are still a lot of good Mopars here too (someone had to establish a bar for all of these Fords to shoot for) and I see them out.  Just not as often as I see Cobra Jets.

[Cooter]

Yeah I agree totally on the people who are rip-off artists.  

I also know a lot of people with a classic but without the means to fix it will hold on to it simply becuase it allows them to keep dreaming.  Deep down they probably know they can't sell it for much, nor will they ever really have the means to fix it up right.    But they assume somewhere down the road things will change, and life just has a way of getting in the way of hobbies and dreams.

There's a ton of owners sitting on a rustbucket who probably look at it once a week and imagine driving it fully restored, windows down, and it makes them feel good, and so it's worth it to hold on to the car because people don't want to sell their dreams.   I fully understand that.   Then somebody comes along and says 'Your dream is worth maybe 1500 bucks on a good day, so I brought a grand in cash since you're obviously stupid for holding on to this car'.  Then they don't understand why the door gets slammed in their face.    

Amen. Might Copy this and I think I'll post it to FB everytime I see comments about how much of a tragedy it is to see a car rotting into the ground on one of those 'save it, or crush it?' Posts.....
Knowing the whole time those who reply don't have the time, money, or places to restore it either.

[Ghoste]

Not being able to save it doesn't make it any less of a bad thing though.

[1974dodgecharger]

Fck it i like showing off the charger daily.....

[lloyd3]

Good post. 20% remaining may be a bit high. When you take into account all of the cars that are sitting around for lack of funds....these cars are just circling the drain. Truly unmolested versions are far-more unusual, R/Ts are even more unusual.  Without having any real data to back up my gut-feeling, I'd have to guess between 6 to 8K decent, largely original cars remain out of the 50k per annum model era (68, 69 & 70). And, the reason you're not seeing them is everything that you've seen mentioned here. Crowded roads, and crappy/dangerous driving habits by a general public that drives crappy, plastic, throwaway cars.  Ten years ago when I'd take my car out I'd get far-more recognition from folks. The 20-somethings that I run across now don't even seem to recognize what I'm driving. It feels like I'm driving a dinosaur, and when you think about it, maybe I am.

[Homerr]

We don't even need to own a Charger to dream about them.  I don't own a Charger right now but I think about 'my' car every once in a while.  I'll own it soon enough.

It's a '70 R/T 4-speed car sitting in the 3rd-car bay of a garage in Anywhere, USA.  It's sitting high in the nose, without the motor and trans.  Those are the greasy lumps sitting under the workbench at the back of the garage.  The chrome and stainless are all stuffed diagonally across the interior.  The clutter of suburban living is packed around, under, on top of the car.  The kids bikes are leaning against the oxidized paint, camping gear unloaded from the summer trip is still sitting on the roof and decklid.  The smiley face the kids drew in the window dust last year is fading with a new collection of dust covering the car this year.

Now in December the Charger is cold to the touch, but it doesn't care.  It sits there every day.   In a few months that third garage door will roll up, the current caretaker will notice the tail panel and stand there for a moment considering all the good times he had with the Charger, his plans for it, and realize those plans aren't happening.  It would take a solid hour of work to clear out the space to roll the car a foot.  Maybe he'll think about his wife and the vacation she wants, or his kids and their college fund.  And this year, or maybe next, he'll decide that the memories of times with the Charger are more valuable to him and that the tinge of pain he feels when he sees it.

[ACUDANUT]

Look at sales during the era you will see why the charger is coveted, beautiful, and rare compared to the other 2 auto makers.  I believe mustang made/sold like 400k in 68 and only 90k chargers.  That's off top of my head, guess estimate.

Mustang was also cheaper vs chargers....either way its a beautiful car as James may would say ,the mustang became marlon Brando while the charger was James dean.

What...Did you know James Dean and Marlon Brando were peter puffing homo's.

"James Dean attended a class taught by Marlon Brandon. He stayed after the class to meet Brando, which lead to a sexual affair that lasted for several months and a friendship that lasted much longer"

[Troy]

Look at sales during the era you will see why the charger is coveted, beautiful, and rare compared to the other 2 auto makers.  I believe mustang made/sold like 400k in 68 and only 90k chargers.  That's off top of my head, guess estimate.

Mustang was also cheaper vs chargers....either way its a beautiful car as James may would say ,the mustang became marlon Brando while the charger was James dean.

What...Did you know James Dean and Marlon Brando were peter puffing homo's.

"James Dean attended a class taught by Marlon Brandon. He stayed after the class to meet Brando, which lead to a sexual affair that lasted for several months and a friendship that lasted much longer"

I believe you missed the point...

Troy

[Homerr]

Wait, is the Charger on top of the Mustang or the other way around?   

[Ghoste]

The Charger is always on top.

[69 OUR/TEA]

There's tons around,within a 2 mile radius of me there is a B5 blue 69 R/T,and 2 3x9 R/T SE stripe delete cars .

[even_u]

Here's some statistics from Norway.
Cars mostly from mid 70's and earlier.
Our population is 5 mill...

When I imported my '68 in 2009, there were 6 other 2nd gen chargers imported to Norway.

Topp 10 Amcar import 2012

Chevy Corvette
182   

Chevy*
117

Ford Mustang
101

Chevy Camaro
56

Cadillac*
54

Dodge*
35

Lincoln*
33

Buick*
31

Pontiac Firebird
29

Plymouth*
25

Pontiac*
24

Pontiac Trans Am
13

Jeep*
12

Mercury*
10

Dodge Challenger
8

* Model not specified

[hemihead]

You guys kid yourselves . 2nd Gen Chargers are as bad as Camaros and Trans Ams with the big Screaming Chicken  . Everyone has one . They have been done to death . Just because you
don't see them doesn't mean they aren't around . They aren't that rare .

[1974dodgecharger]

Who cars of sexual preference.....if i told u that the idea of the charger came from a lesbian would u stop driving it?

Look at sales during the era you will see why the charger is coveted, beautiful, and rare compared to the other 2 auto makers.  I believe mustang made/sold like 400k in 68 and only 90k chargers.  That's off top of my head, guess estimate.

Mustang was also cheaper vs chargers....either way its a beautiful car as James may would say ,the mustang became marlon Brando while the charger was James dean.

What...Did you know James Dean and Marlon Brando were peter puffing homo's.

"James Dean attended a class taught by Marlon Brandon. He stayed after the class to meet Brando, which lead to a sexual affair that lasted for several months and a friendship that lasted much longer"

[500Jon]

Hi Guys and Gals,
They are mostly all in Europe now.
Back in the day (80's) a 68/69 Charger was a car wanted by all UK fans of US-TIN!
So we all longed for one in England and on the whole we all got one or two.
I had a 68 green R/T from a US serviceman that was a total rust free Vegas car.
I then bought a rust free 383 2bbl 68 and robbed many good parts to make the R/T betta.
Sold both cars and bought a 69 green R/T car that was a peach, I believe it went back to New York???
We are talking nearly 25 years ago!
Now there are more 68 Chargers in the UK than any other Mopar.
We have the opposite problem here, we are starting to hate THEM!!!(68's only)

I now have a 69 Charger that I bought from California.
That was ten years ago, so you are still losing them by the bucket load!

69/70's are the Charger of choice now, mucho rarer and mucho Coolio!

500Jon aka 'the LiMeY'

[Cooter]

Look at sales during the era you will see why the charger is coveted, beautiful, and rare compared to the other 2 auto makers.  I believe mustang made/sold like 400k in 68 and only 90k chargers.  That's off top of my head, guess estimate.

Mustang was also cheaper vs chargers....either way its a beautiful car as James may would say ,the mustang became marlon Brando while the charger was James dean.

What...Did you know James Dean and Marlon Brando were peter puffing homo's.

"James Dean attended a class taught by Marlon Brandon. He stayed after the class to meet Brando, which lead to a sexual affair that lasted for several months and a friendship that lasted much longer"

Dang....rebel with a boyfriend?
I guess 'Johnny' made him an offer he couldn't refuse?

[hatersaurusrex]

Look at sales during the era you will see why the charger is coveted, beautiful, and rare compared to the other 2 auto makers.  I believe mustang made/sold like 400k in 68 and only 90k chargers.  That's off top of my head, guess estimate.

Mustang was also cheaper vs chargers....either way its a beautiful car as James may would say ,the mustang became marlon Brando while the charger was James dean.

What...Did you know James Dean and Marlon Brando were peter puffing homo's.

"James Dean attended a class taught by Marlon Brandon. He stayed after the class to meet Brando, which lead to a sexual affair that lasted for several months and a friendship that lasted much longer"

Dang....rebel with a boyfriend?
I guess 'Johnny' made him an offer he couldn't refuse?

Hmmm Cudanut, I went to verify what you posted, and the only reference I could find to that quote is on a site called homohistory.com.  Which makes me wonder: What were you doing on a site called homohistory.com in the first place?

www.homohistory.com/2012/12/james-deans-gay-lovers.html‎

[lloyd3]

Having participated in the shipping of several cars overseas, I can see how that might explain the relative scarcity of cars here now. When you were faced with high prices for a car you paid very little for (20-years ago) you tended to  believe you'd find a another one somewhere else later, so you sold it and moved-on.

[HeavyFuel]

You guys kid yourselves . 2nd Gen Chargers are as bad as Camaros and Trans Ams with the big Screaming Chicken  . Everyone has one . They have been done to death . Just because you
don't see them doesn't mean they aren't around . They aren't that rare .

[ACUDANUT]

Hater. That's funny.   Truth be known I lost a bet once and claimed James Dean was a chick magnet, no way could he have been a homo.  I lost that bet.
-74...No I would not have bought a car from two homo's...It would have smelled like shit.