what's needed to get a 69 440 RT into mid 12s?

[myk]

I won't bore you with quotes and stories so I will keep it short. Its all about the total package. You don't have to break the bank to go 12's. And it doesn't have to be a track car either. My puny, underappreciated 383 dips into the 12's and I put over 5000 real street miles on it this year. Its reliable enough that I havnt had to repair it since I assembled it in 2000, runs on 93, and is a blast on the street.

Take a bone stock car and put a big cammed "race" engine in it and no, it will be no fun on the street and will break parts on the car. But build a mild, well rounded engine, with a transmission and converter matched to it along with a rear gear and tire that fits the combo as well....... and you're on the right track.

Kinda like the guys who take a stock or near stock 440 and stick in the biggest cam they can find and a 1150 Holley carb on it
because they think biggest means best 

Sounds like you knew my car before I bought it, lol...

[1974dodgecharger]

I like that.....looks stocking but a killer under neath.

Damn firefighter  446 in 12 that's impressive.

This is Ron's car from a few years ago when it still had the 446. Looks kinda, sorta like stock from this distance!


Troy

[6pkrtse]

My old 69 Charger was a stock bore, stock stroke, 440 cubin inch engine with a 680 Roller cam, 1.6 rockers, 12.5:1 Comp with a 850 on a TM7 intake with a manual valve body 727 with a PTC 8" 5500 Convertor & 4:88 gears. Most would say not really a street friendly combo but I drove it everywhere on the street. It rans 11:40's all day long on street tires & thru the mufflers. Mid to low 10's on the spray.

[Challenger340]

Traction, 60 ft time, and increased HP & Torque.
Bone "stock" a '69 Charger 440 R/T had sufficient attribute potential to run high 13's.....none did....simply because 60ft times were limited to 2.1 or 2.2 on those 14 second tickets with Bias ply's back in the day.

Today,
a recipe for high 12's E.T., is easily attainable on the same stock bottom end(310 RWHP on the 4,000 lb Car).....ASSUMING....  close to the same 375, or even better 400 + HP at sea level, would require 102-103 mph with a slower(than soft averages)1.7 second 60 ft times.
It is NOT the power present....but the ability to "use it" that lacks in these cars.... given maintenance of adequate driving characteristics on a day to day basis.

Nonetheless,
I would NOT be surprised at all.... to see one crack high 12's on the stock engine, with just the addition of Tires, Gearing, and Torque Convertor, with minor engine upgrades that are still driveable.
That said,
for the average guy, IMO, the following would be best.
Camshaft 228* to 230* @ .050 Intake Pattern, with as much lift as possible on the stock 6178 iron intake, 1.6 rocker ratio best
Stock Valves, but Bowl Port W/proper seat prep & backcut, mill Heads .020" or 85/86 CC
Bigger cfm Carb....if no other reason than to "cheat"  the opening size on the available ambient air pressure.
Headers would be GREAT...but doable on the manifolds(shift at / below 5K)
3.91 rear Cogs on 27" Tire Diameter, 28" would be better with 4.10' , but doable.
HP Mechanical Fuel Pump.
Tight 10" Convertor, J cut stator would be best for as close to lock as possible.
Setup snubber on the leafs, Caltrac better.

The target here, is not so much for gunga more horsepower....NOT required for high 12's....but rather to be able to utilize "existing" power better, more effectively, and more importantly to lower 60 ft times to lower E.T.
Remember....anything GAINED in the 60ft times can be DOUBLED off E.T.!!
So, if even lowering to a 1.7 sec 60ft time, from the common 2.2's clocked back in the day on the 14.3 second E.T.'s....amounts to almost a FULL SECOND or 13.3 E.T's all by itself !!
Add that.... to a little more power and presto...12's ain't outa reach here ?  

[RECHRGD]

It's kind of funny, with my street radials I get much better traction on the street than at the local track.  Maybe I have a twelve second STREET car and a thirteen second TRACK car....

[cdr]

It's kind of funny, with my street radials I get much better traction on the street than at the local track.  Maybe I have a twelve second STREET car and a thirteen second TRACK car....

with everything working your mph is good for 12.80's

[RECHRGD]

It's kind of funny, with my street radials I get much better traction on the street than at the local track.  Maybe I have a twelve second STREET car and a thirteen second TRACK car....

with everything working your mph is good for 12.80's

Yea, that's about what I was shooting for with this build.  But, I was hoping to get there with street tires.  Wishful thinking, I guess.....

[c00nhunterjoe]

90% of people I see at the track on street tires air them down, drive through the water, and do a burnout. 3 strikes you're out. Radials are designed for a specific air pressure, dropping them like a bias slick costs you traction.  They don't hook like a slick so you don't need the water. All that does is track water in your tread to the start line costing you more traction. Lastly, john forcing a radial makes it slippery not sticky..... see it all the time. On a true street radial, drive AROUND the water box and a quick blip of the throttle to spin the rocks off and heat them briefly is all you need. I can knock off 13.20's @ 102 in my 07 charger on the stock 245's cutting 1.9- 2.0 60 ft. That's not bad for a 4200 lb car with 2.82 gears and radials. Practice practice practice.

[myk]

I can knock off 13.20's @ 102 in my 07 charger on the stock 245's cutting 1.9- 2.0 60 ft. That's not bad for a 4200 lb car with 2.82 gears and radials. Practice practice practice.

That's.....pretty impressive driving...

[RECHRGD]

90% of people I see at the track on street tires air them down, drive through the water, and do a burnout. 3 strikes you're out. Radials are designed for a specific air pressure, dropping them like a bias slick costs you traction.  They don't hook like a slick so you don't need the water. All that does is track water in your tread to the start line costing you more traction. Lastly, john forcing a radial makes it slippery not sticky..... see it all the time. On a true street radial, drive AROUND the water box and a quick blip of the throttle to spin the rocks off and heat them briefly is all you need. I can knock off 13.20's @ 102 in my 07 charger on the stock 245's cutting 1.9- 2.0 60 ft. That's not bad for a 4200 lb car with 2.82 gears and radials. Practice practice practice.

I always drive around the water and leave normal pressure in the tires.  It seems to me that whatever it is that they put on the track to improve traction works for slicks but does the opposite for street tires....

[c00nhunterjoe]

Track bite is impressive stuff. If you are ever questioning how sticky the track is, try to walk on the staging lanes. I love watching people in flip flops try. Lmao

[Cooter]

I can knock off 13.20's @ 102 in my 07 charger on the stock 245's cutting 1.9- 2.0 60 ft. That's not bad for a 4200 lb car with 2.82 gears and radials. Practice practice practice.

That's.....pretty impressive driving...

Sure, with like 5 something first gear..
Ratios in the newer trannies are STEEP through high.

[c00nhunterjoe]

I can knock off 13.20's @ 102 in my 07 charger on the stock 245's cutting 1.9- 2.0 60 ft. That's not bad for a 4200 lb car with 2.82 gears and radials. Practice practice practice.

That's.....pretty impressive driving...

Sure, with like 5 something first gear..
Ratios in the newer trannies are STEEP through high.

I assure you the trans doesn't make the car. Its a bit of a dog off the line still. The rear gears kill it. Shes 4200 lbs of steel.
But for what its worth, nag1- 3.59, 2.19, 1.41, 1.0, .83.   A833- 2.66, 1.91, 1.39, 1.0  so while 1st is steeper, I'm still turning 2.82's out back

[Ghoste]

It is NOT the power present....but the ability to "use it" that lacks in these cars.... given maintenance of adequate driving characteristics on a day to day basis.  

Bingo.  And I would add vehicle maintenance in general to that.  The art of the preformance tune seems lacking so often and its sad with all of the information right at our fingertips now.

[c00nhunterjoe]

It is NOT the power present....but the ability to "use it" that lacks in these cars.... given maintenance of adequate driving characteristics on a day to day basis.  

Bingo.  And I would add vehicle maintenance in general to that.  The art of the preformance tune seems lacking so often and its sad with all of the information right at our fingertips now.

You mean I can't just take the carb out of the box and slap it on and crank the distributor until it starts ok and run 10's? 

[Ghoste]

Not even if it says so on the box. 

[c00nhunterjoe]

Lmao. But on the serious side; all those "little things" is how the nhra stock guys go so fast. All the little tips and tricks and being meticulous with everything. They all add up. And it doesn't end with the engine. Meticulous suspension tuning as well. My friends stock roadrunner runs mid 10's but when you open the hood it is a true 440 6 pack. Hes been torn down many times. Stock port heads and all. Its crazy the amount of work they put into those cars but its proof it pays off.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Nhra stock. The little things do matter.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/YpX-Uoz3U7Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpX-Uoz3U7Q

[myk]

Not even if it says so on the box. 

Well I for one am sorely disappointed; I bought my 'Eddy 750 with the understanding that I could just bolt it on and go!   

[tan top]

Nhra stock. The little things do matter.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/YpX-Uoz3U7Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpX-Uoz3U7Q

  awesome   

[Ghoste]

Still loooove Stock Eliminator.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Yup! Everytime I look over his car it amazes me. No stripping or lightening. Full interior, weighs 3800 lbs. Only mods to chassis is the cage. Open the hood and its a 440 6 pack. Can't recall tire size but they are extremely limited. I think its an 8" tire. Its crazy what he can do with it. I like the stock class better then super stock because the super stock guys are very secretative and don't like questions. The stock guys will show you all about there cars and give you tips and tricks that have worked for them. I can't beleive their cams are running stock lift!