Decision time...383 vs 440

[Dreamcar]

I have a 440 block lined up to purchase if I want it for about $400. I already have a 383 in my garage that is dismantled and ready for a rebuild. I'm looking to get about 375-400 hp at the crank. The goal is a nice weekend cruiser with decent "pep". Is the 400 bucks to get the 440 block worth it given my goals or do I just stick with the 383 and have the builder upgrade it a little.

The 383 I have is not the original block so numbers matching is not an issue.

[Dino]

I had a 383 4bbl in my 68.  Very nice engine with plenty pep to have a good time.  I now have a 69 with a 440 and there is no such thing as looking back.  I usually don't quote cheesy sayings but in this case you have given me no choice son!  So go big or go home!  When size matters bigger is better!  There is no replacement for displacement!

You getting the picture?   

A 383 and a 440, both well tuned, will guzzle about the same amount of car booze.  To make them go fast, they will require about the same amount of investment. 

As fun as that 383 was, there is no comparison to a well built 440.  It's the torque that gets you and keeps you in its grasp.  When I turn my car on, it returns the favor.  The growl, the aggression and the ass breaking away when you mash the go pedal is absolutely priceless.  Watching peoples faces when I do this, hell I'd pay good money for!

Get yourself a good 440 core and build away.   

[XH29N0G]

The difference in torque will be what you will notice.  If $400 is not a lot in the scheme of your plans, then I would go with the 440.

[Dreamcar]

That's what I was thinking, but having never driven one, input is greatly appreciated. Thanks

[c00nhunterjoe]

I'm a 383 fan. I like being the oddball out and doing what "can't" be done. Either engine will be a lot of fun on the street. 400 flywheel hp is no problem in either choice.

[cdr]

i would put the 400.00 towards stroking the 383  

http://www.440source.com/strokerkits.htm

[Cooter]

440. Hands down. No need to look any further.  Yee who begins with the most, always ends with the most.
383 stroker..440 stroker. 383 turbo. 440 turbo. 383 with a300 shot. 440 with a 300 shot.
Get the idea?

[Plum Crazy 68]

I had a 383 4bbl in my 68.  Very nice engine with plenty pep to have a good time.  I now have a 69 with a 440 and there is no such thing as looking back.  I usually don't quote cheesy sayings but in this case you have given me no choice son!  So go big or go home!  When size matters bigger is better!  There is no replacement for displacement!

You getting the picture?   

A 383 and a 440, both well tuned, will guzzle about the same amount of car booze.  To make them go fast, they will require about the same amount of investment. 

As fun as that 383 was, there is no comparison to a well built 440.  It's the torque that gets you and keeps you in its grasp.  When I turn my car on, it returns the favor.  The growl, the aggression and the ass breaking away when you mash the go pedal is absolutely priceless.  Watching peoples faces when I do this, hell I'd pay good money for!

Get yourself a good 440 core and build away.   


I suddenly feel very inadequate

[Sublime/Sixpack]

For a "nice weekend cruiser with decent pep (your own words), I say be different and build the 383.
I've always been a big fan of the 440, I still am, but if I were in your situation I'd take that $400.00 for the 440 and put it towards the 383's build. The 383 is very good engine. And if built right, and running the right rear end gears you'll have a strong cruiser.

[Dino]

I had a 383 4bbl in my 68.  Very nice engine with plenty pep to have a good time.  I now have a 69 with a 440 and there is no such thing as looking back.  I usually don't quote cheesy sayings but in this case you have given me no choice son!  So go big or go home!  When size matters bigger is better!  There is no replacement for displacement!

You getting the picture?   

A 383 and a 440, both well tuned, will guzzle about the same amount of car booze.  To make them go fast, they will require about the same amount of investment. 

As fun as that 383 was, there is no comparison to a well built 440.  It's the torque that gets you and keeps you in its grasp.  When I turn my car on, it returns the favor.  The growl, the aggression and the ass breaking away when you mash the go pedal is absolutely priceless.  Watching peoples faces when I do this, hell I'd pay good money for!

Get yourself a good 440 core and build away.   


I suddenly feel very inadequate

Oh no, don't.  There's nothing wrong with a 383.  If my car had a factory 383 I would not change it, no doubt about that.  I do feel however that when given the choice to start with either, I would be real hard pressed to pass up that torque.  It's just my opinion, not the law.   

[Dreamcar]

But would 400 bucks on the 383 make up the difference vs stock 440 rebuild? And if I have run shorter gears I'd be running higher rpms all the time, right?

[DAY CLONA]

440, end of discussion...

[Dreamcar]

This great input. Thank you all!

[Dino]

But would 400 bucks on the 383 make up the difference vs stock 440 rebuild? And if I have run shorter gears I'd be running higher rpms all the time, right?

$400 will get you some nice toys but not worth the difference in output imo.  Yes you would be running higher rpm.  I stuck 2.96 gears in mine because I drive it a lot and I can still make the tires squeal when I want.  With either engine you can have a lot of fun, I just believe there's more fun in that 440.

[Sublime/Sixpack]

But would 400 bucks on the 383 make up the difference vs stock 440 rebuild? And if I have run shorter gears I'd be running higher rpms all the time, right?

My input was based on your original post, (a nice weekend cruiser with decent pep). The 383 will deliver that.
If you want the most power and torque you can get for a similar build, go with the 440.
As I said earlier, I'm a big fan of the 440, but to be honest with you when I'm at a car show and I see a car with a 383 in it, I find it refreshing to see something other than a 440 between the fenders.
If you do go with the 383 and you happen to pull the plug on someone running a 440 you'll have a hard time wiping the smile off your face.

Good luck with whichever one you choose.

[Dreamcar]

Having never actually driven a charger as I bough mine in need of resto, I don't how a big car like that feels with either engine. I just don't want to be disappointed with a sluggish feel once the car is done. If I can find the right combination of hp, torque, and gearing, all while being able to cruise to any show without screaming rpms, I'll be happy. After reading all these responses, I think a 440 would be the best first step to get the right combination. The more planning, the better.

[twodko]

In the few years I've enjoyed this forum restoring my car several people standout as "go to" guys regarding mill builds.

Cooterman, FireFighterSteve, 68x426, Dino et al. I'm sure they will chime in. Whatever you do.....

We want pictures!

[billschroeder5842]

I've had several of both. Here is my two cents....

The 383 will have plenty of power and have great street manners. The 440 will rock your world but give you a bit more fuss as a daily.

Your call. The older I get (I'm 51) I want a bit of a kick but want dependability and smoothness.

I vote 383.

[Dreamcar]

In the few years I've enjoyed this forum restoring my car several people standout as "go to" guys regarding mill builds.

Cooterman, FireFighterSteve, 68x426, Dino et al. I'm sure they will chime in. Whatever you do.....

We want pictures!

This is all there is to see now since the snow started flying. Oh well, until spring, I'm in parts collecting mode...like buying engine blocks

[myk]

Unless the 440 has a radical build it will behave, as Charger sales literature said back in the day, "docile enough" around town.  Mine is all stock so maybe I've just gotten used to it, but like I told a co-worker who was trying to decide on her boob implants: "if I was going to spend all that money and put myself under the knife, I'd rather come out of it thinking I had too much, than not enough..."  

440/DD cup for the win...

[Brass]

For what you're looking for, I think a high compression 440 with 3.23 gears would be spot on.  Also, it would probably be more attractive to most buyers too *IF* you ever think of selling in the future.  Yes - 440's are common but there is a reason for that.  They're a good platform to build on, with a good rod ratio and nice torque numbers right out of the box.  383's are good too, especially for cruising - but may require more planning/effort to reach greater output levels. At least that's my sense of it.

[twodko]

Unless the 440 has a radical build it will behave, as Charger sales literature said back in the day, "docile enough" around town.  Mine is all stock so maybe I've just gotten used to it, but like I told a co-worker who was trying to decide on her boob implants: "if I was going to spend all that money and put myself under the knife, I'd rather come out of it thinking I had too much, than not enough..."  

440/DD cup for the win...

Now that's funny right there! Myk we need pictures dude! 

[XH29N0G]

Having never actually driven a charger as I bough mine in need of resto, I don't how a big car like that feels with either engine. I just don't want to be disappointed with a sluggish feel once the car is done. If I can find the right combination of hp, torque, and gearing, all while being able to cruise to any show without screaming rpms, I'll be happy. After reading all these responses, I think a 440 would be the best first step to get the right combination. The more planning, the better.

Neither will feel sluggish.  The 383 in my car with the original 3 speed manual and original tires was a lot of fun to grow up with.  The torque is still different on the 440 - although I haven't driven one.

[cdr]

ok lets look at cost

440 engine,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,400.00                       383 block,,,,,,,,,,free
resize rods & arp bolts about 250.00                         stroker kit,,,,,,,2000.00
grind crank,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,125.00                           for a 496 cid                        
balance assy,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,250.00
pistons,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,500.00
rings,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,135.00
bearings,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,175.00
that works out to 1835.00 not counting block work
for a 440 cid.

[JB400]

I favor the 383.  Why?   You have it.  If you buy the 440, you're out $400 from your pocket.  Plus, you'd still be tripping over the 383 till you do something with it.  You're asking for 400 hp.  An aftermarket intake, 4bbl carb, headers, and a cam change will give you the 400 ponies and still keep it streetable.  A port match on the heads and intake wouldn't hurt anything either and can be done at home.

[Dreamcar]

You guys are not making this easy!

[polywideblock]

I favor the 383.  Why?   You have it.  If you buy the 440, you're out $400 from your pocket.  Plus, you'd still be tripping over the 383 till you do something with it.  You're asking for 400 hp.  An aftermarket intake, 4bbl carb, headers, and a cam change will give you the 400 ponies and still keep it streetable.  A port match on the heads and intake wouldn't hurt anything either and can be done at home.

like stroker said I think you can get a package from edelbrock with everything to replace top end with or without heads that give an honest 400 + hp  from a 383 

but i'v got a 440 and love it   

[Mopar Nut]

What's the 440 block out of?

[Dreamcar]

It's a dismantled 76 block. I don't know what it's out of though. Either way it need a rebuild.

[A383Wing]

The 383 is often under-rated engine. It's a big block in a small block body. The 383 will rev higher & faster than a 440 will....

I say build the 383

[XS29LA47V21]

If it is an original 383 car I would keep it that, no shame there, money does not grow on trees they say.  The one "good running" 383 I had some years back was twice the motor a couple stock 440s.....  I vote 383.

[XH29N0G]

You guys are not making this easy!

It isn't.  A well built 383 will make the car move well.  (look through http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,78094.0.html).  I imagine a 440 will make it move better.  I ultimately went the way some have suggested here by changing the stroke on a 383.  I didn't opt for 4.15 (490 cc), but instead went for 3.91 (451 cc).  The engine is very different from what it was and the car drives very differently.  

Only you know your budget.  I would look at this decision in terms of that.  I like the 383 (that is what the N is in my sign in name).  With the 383 I switched to steep gears and an overdrive and really liked it.  The switch to the present configuration was something I decided I wanted to do to see what more torque would do.  Right now it is too much for my tires; so I am working on solving that and the other issues that come with it.

From your original post, I think a 383 can meet your HP goals, a 440 will too, but with more torque.  More power and torque and HP can be seductive, but it also will reach a point where you cannot use it and need to do other things (the tires just spin).  This tells about my present state.  There are others on here - maybe you as well - who have much more experience with high and higher power engines.  

[Dreamcar]

I think what attracted me to having a 440 built is that I can still find them, they offer more hp in stock form so I don't have to buy speed parts, and as mentioned the extra torque for that feeling in the seat when you get going. But, the car was originally a 383 car and like I said, I have one in my garage. So not an easy decision, but I'm leaning towards getting that 440 rebuilt to 69 specs and just enjoying what that has to offer. Plus without needing speed parts, the cost is manageable.

[cdr]

so for a couple of 100.00 difference ,you would go with a cast crank, stock rod 440.

[1974dodgecharger]

I would say 440!

I have a 383 in my car now, but It was only done because it was originally a 383 so I found a block from the 68 year and rebuilt it with some little things like headers, heads, KB pistons, etc. Though not  as much torque as the 440, but in the end it costs the same to build the 383 I have now vs the 440. 

LIke cooter said the bigger one will always win 440 with turbo or 383 with turbo, 440 with blower or 383 with blower, GO BIG OR GO HOME as they say........

[Cooter]

Only thing bothers me bout the 440 Chrysler is it's stock stroke. Same as a damn SMALL BLOCK 400 Chevy.
Why the hell Mopar didn't go with the 4" crank like Chevy did with the 454, I don't know.

The 383 was a good engine, but like the 'Boss ' 302, it'll rev to the moon, but torque is lacking.
The only engine that had it worse was the 350 GC engine. Uber small valves and Briggs and Stratton bore.

[c00nhunterjoe]

My 383 made enough torque to bust the windshield and rip the driver door striker off the pillar on slicks..... I'm just sayin.... 

[1974dodgecharger]

Mine only moves my rear view mirror lol 

[A383Wing]

if car was originally a 383 car, then switching to a 440 will mean a couple more changes as well

Throttle cable, maybe brakes all around, possible torsion bars, sway bar was bigger on 440 cars, and maybe fuel lines...383 had 5/16" lines, 440's had 3/8" lines...now with that being said, I'm still running 5/16" fuel lines on my 383 dual quad car

Bryan

[Dreamcar]

if car was originally a 383 car, then switching to a 440 will mean a couple more changes as well

Throttle cable, maybe brakes all around, possible torsion bars, sway bar was bigger on 440 cars, and maybe fuel lines...383 had 5/16" lines, 440's had 3/8" lines...nut with that being said, I'm still running 5/16" fuel lines on my 383 dual quad car


Bryan

That's good info, but the car already needs new fuel lines and my plan was a disc brake upgrade. the suspension is also being completely replaced.

[Challenger340]

So, lets really make this a difficult decision for you...OK ?
How does a 430HP / 444 Ft/Lbs Torque 383 sound..... on 91 Octane with Stock Iron Heads...with a relatively "smooth" Idle  ?

From reading the posts in this thread, it would seem one of the biggest knocks on the 383 is the Torque ?
Agreed,
the wee'83 needs a bit more run at the load out of the hole compared to big brother the 440, and while it's true there is no "replacement for displacement",
here is something to chew on ?
It all depends on what you want, or "how much"......is "enough".

The following Dyno Sheet is from a .030" over 1970 Block 383 we did for a guy a couple of years back.
STOCK "Jobber" Rebuilder Engine Kit, including Cast Pistons, Cast Rings.
We added(if I remember correctly)
* ARP Rod Bolts
* 274H CompCams Hydraulic Flat tappet Cam
* Adjustable Rocker Arms & Pushrods
* Torker Intake
* 750 Holley Carb

labor Included;
* Bowl Port & Gasket Match the Iron Heads(stock 2.08" & 1.74" Valves)
* Some Block Milling to bring the low-pop stock Cast Pistons a bit closer to the deck, still 9.2:1 C.R.
* usually other labor like Bore & Hone W/Torque Plate, Resize the Rods, yada, yada, Cam Brgs etc.
* Rebuild the Heads properly, Good Guides, Good Angles, Back-cut, etc.

That's it....That's all, and although it was a bit more labor $ Cost......It was still a CHEAPO Engine !

THIS particular wee-83, can give "Big Brother" 440 some trouble at stoplights

[Dreamcar]

So, lets really make this a difficult decision for you...OK ?
How does a 430HP / 444 Ft/Lbs Torque 383 sound..... on 91 Octane with Stock Iron Heads...with a relatively "smooth" Idle  ?

From reading the posts in this thread, it would seem one of the biggest knocks on the 383 is the Torque ?
Agreed,
the wee'83 needs a bit more run at the load out of the hole compared to big brother the 440, and while it's true there is no "replacement for displacement",
here is something to chew on ?
It all depends on what you want, or "how much"......is "enough".

The following Dyno Sheet is from a .030" over 1970 Block 383 we did for a guy a couple of years back.
STOCK "Jobber" Rebuilder Engine Kit, including Cast Pistons, Cast Rings.
We added(if I remember correctly)
* ARP Rod Bolts
* 274H CompCams Hydraulic Flat tappet Cam
* Adjustable Rocker Arms & Pushrods
* Torker Intake
* 750 Holley Carb

labor Included;
* Bowl Port & Gasket Match the Iron Heads(stock 2.08" & 1.74" Valves)
* Some Block Milling to bring the low-pop stock Cast Pistons a bit closer to the deck, still 9.2:1 C.R.
* usually other labor like Bore & Hone W/Torque Plate, Resize the Rods, yada, yada, Cam Brgs etc.
* Rebuild the Heads properly, Good Guides, Good Angles, Back-cut, etc.

That's it....That's all, and although it was a bit more labor $ Cost......It was still a CHEAPO Engine !

THIS particular wee-83, can give "Big Brother" 440 some trouble at stoplights

Wow...those are nice numbers   What was the cost of that build?

[c00nhunterjoe]

I love the torque band throughout the range.

[70 sublime]

383 vs 440

I think you will find when you get the car going you will be driving it every where for any excuse

That means most of the times you will have the kids in the car
going to soccer practise
birthday parties
first hockey practise of the season
ect ect ect

With that said and you trying to choose a colour for inside and out side of car leaning towards what it came with

I think the best choice would be to build the 383 up the best it can be and still run on regular gas (yes the cheap stuff but remember you are driving it every where and will have to keep filling the tank)
You will have a car that is easy to drive and start reliably every time
You will have the biggest grin on your face just seeing the car keys knowing you have a Charger

When anybody asks what motor you can say with pride it has a stock 383 in it because that is what it was born with

You can always build a 440 up and put it in the car later in life then you will be able to know for your self what the differance really is between the two

[Dreamcar]

This has been a very interesting topic....if only I was able to make a clear choice

[Homerr]

Sayings like "there's no substitute for cubic inches" come about for a reason.

Other than a numbers matching situation I don't see why anyone would put money in to a 383 instead of a 440.  'Charger' and '440' are just two words that go together.  The OP is on the cheap side right now to upgrade to a 440, and he can sell off the 'ready to build' 383.  I'd go for a mild 440 build.

Be honest - when you look at ads for non-R/T, non-matching number Chargers and you see "$thousands$ put in to big block 383" don't you just cringe a little bit too?

[BIGBLCK11]

The question rests on whether or not your original numbers will be enough in the future.  I am sure the 383 will get what you asked for, but when you want more power, what will you do?  You are starting from scratch.  As others have said, the build will cost relatively the same.  You have to buy the 440, but hopefully can get something back from the 383.  I have spent over 2k on my numbers matching 383, which was already a brand new rebuilt engine.  It was built to bone-stock specs by the prior owner.  Yes, it is fun now and meets your description for a desired cruiser build.  I now have a 69 440 sitting in the garage, waiting on funds to rebuild.  If I could do it all over, I would most definitely pull the stock-built engine out and never have spent a dime on it.  Not all of the parts will even work on the 440, so I get to spend more money.  I will only get to use the aluminum heads.  The cam and carb will be too small. The rpm intake and $600 headers won't fit.  I should just sell the motor to recoup some money.  But, I am compelled to keep the original motor, even though it is a non-r/t car.  I could probably have the block bored and get different pistons, but I can do that to the 440 as we'll.  I should be happy with it as is, but I want more power!  All of the add-ons I did, would have done even more for a stock 440.

You are in the perfect spot to avoid all of this.  

[fy469rtse]

Yep built many , 440 . my advise is if you can have a drive of both types of  engines in cars to compare, you would have to spend quite a bit for that 383 to match a well built stock 440,
start with the 440 , use only the block, alloy heads to get compression up for todays shit fuels, new steel crank etc
440

[bull]

So is this going to be used for street only? If so the only thing you'll be able to base the difference on is the seat-of-your-pants feel, and either one will get the blood pumping. I have driven a 440 Charger and while it was scary fast I couldn't honetly tell you it "felt" any different than my current 383.  That said, I've also ridden in a 69 Charger powered by a 340 and that thing got up and moved quite well.

I've owned three Chargers in my life and two of them had 383s so I may be a little biased. I can tell you first hand that a 70 Charger 383 can beat a 69 396 Camaro.

Tell me this though, about a possible 383 build. What pistons do you want to go with and has it/will it be bored?

[Dreamcar]

So is this going to be used for street only? If so the only thing you'll be able to base the difference on is the seat-of-your-pants feel, and either one will get the blood pumping. I have driven a 440 Charger and while it was scary fast I couldn't honetly tell you it "felt" any different than my current 383.  That said, I've also ridden in a 69 Charger powered by a 340 and that thing got up and moved quite well.

I've owned three Chargers in my life and two of them had 383s so I may be a little biased. I can tell you first hand that a 70 Charger 383 can beat a 69 396 Camaro.

Tell me this though, about a possible 383 build. What pistons do you want to go with and has it/will it be bored?

Yes it's purely a street cruiser. As far as pistons and bore, I was basically going to just drop it off at my engine builder's and tell him what I want for power and let him take the best course of action. I have no engine building experience so I would not begin to tell someone how to build an engine.

[bull]

The only reason I ask is because when I had my 383 rebuilt I wanted forged pistons and they were not available at the time in .040 over. Fortunately we were able to clean it up at .030 over.

Parts availability is one thing that might decide things for you but 9 times out of 10 you won't run into any trouble. There are companies out there that can custom build and size forged pistons you want if push comes to shove.

[Cooter]

Lemme put it to you this way Dreamcar. If you don't go with the biggest there is, that little voice in your head every time a 5.0 pulls up beside you at a stop light will ALWAYS be the same.

"damn, I really wished I'd have gone with the 440 now"....

Power is king. If you can get "free" power from a larger engine, it's a no brainer. It even looks like a 383. I can't tell you how many times a 440 was looked at and thought to be a 383.

Besides, in todays world with dumbasses and such, you know you'll get this one with the 383.....
"damn, you put a Chevy engine in it??"

[Dreamcar]

Thank you all for your input. I think I'll be picking up that 440 since the price is good and even in stock form I'll likely be happy with the performance.

[1974dodgecharger]

if im looking top down on a engine whiles its in the car I always go by the width of the whole engine to determine if its a 383 or 440. 

yeah they look almost identical, but the size you can tell...

Lemme put it to you this way Dreamcar. If you don't go with the biggest there is, that little voice in your head every time a 5.0 pulls up beside you at a stop light will ALWAYS be the same.

"damn, I really wished I'd have gone with the 440 now"....

Power is king. If you can get "free" power from a larger engine, it's a no brainer. It even looks like a 383. I can't tell you how many times a 440 was looked at and thought to be a 383.

Besides, in todays world with dumbasses and such, you know you'll get this one with the 383.....
"damn, you put a Chevy engine in it??"

[Supercharged Riot]

in my opinion. The block itself is merely a small portion of the total cost of the engine build
A complete set of pistons or a cam kit will cost more.
I say keep your 383 and use it when 440's are extinct.
Get the 440 block and build it.
When its dead, use the 383.

[Challenger340]

Thank you all for your input. I think I'll be picking up that 440 since the price is good and even in stock form I'll likely be happy with the performance.

Good Decision, and IMO, you made the right one going for the 440! 
All things being equal, the costs to rebuild either a 383 or 440 will be close to the same, the biggest difference being the larger Engine will always provide more useable Torque and Power within a conduscive useable rpm range.

Apologies for confusing the issue with the 383 Dyno Sheet.....my intention was more to stress the importance of "doing things properly", and showing what "can" be done when rebuilding any engine, even a 383, as opposed to simply believing a "Rebuild" is a "Rebuild".
When you get around to doing the 440, get back on here and get imput... some GREAT resources on here, Firefighter3931, Cooter, IQ82, to name just a few, and many others, but research, research, research...... better end product.