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head removal with engine in car?

Started by Lord Warlock, December 04, 2013, 09:54:32 PM

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Lord Warlock

Yes, i seem to be asking lots of questions lately, probably because i've been spending alot more time under the car, moreso than i have in the last 15 years.  

For the past decade the motor has had a bad oil leak due to a broken valve cover bolt on the passenger side head, 2nd from the rear, where the oil runs out on top of the exhaust manifold and causes clouds of smoke when running it.  Makes playing with the car somewhat embarrassing in the driveway as there is always clouds of smoke billowing out of it whenever it runs.  

I recently attempted to drill out the broken bolt, in actuality the old bolt never really came out, but it let me drill a new hole just off center, and tap new threads into it, With gasket sealer, new gaskets, and a bolt in the new hole, I'm reasonably assured that the car will run smokeless in the future, however, I'd really like to do it right and remove the head from the motor and either take it to a machine shop and have it done right, or take the spare head i have in and have it redone and just swap that head with the one currently on the motor, (the spare head was one of the original 440 magnum heads that came on the motor in the car, the two heads on it now are both the original heads on the number matching motor that were on the car when i got it).   I do know that the current head in question has two head gaskets in place instead of just one, so that gives me even more reason to want to remove it.  
I got three of the 5 exhaust manifold nuts off easy enough, the last two would just need me to go under the car to access them to get them off, as I can't get to them from the top.  I'm pretty sure i can get the nuts off, but I have doubts that I could get the manifold off the motor itself, as it would have to move past the studs in the head, and there doesn't appear to be clearance enough to do so if its bolted to the motor mounts.  It is impossible to remove the lower head bolts out as long as the manifold is in place, so i can't just unbolt the head and lift it up to get clearance to take the manifold off.  I took off the valve gear, lifter rods, upper and middle rows of head bolts, only to realize at that point that there was another row i had forgotten under the manifolds that the heads of the bolts were millimeters from the manifold, so realized it wasn't coming off the easy way.  I'd have get the manifold off to get the lower row of bolts off so i could get the head loose.  

Do i have to unbolt the motor mounts and lift the motor up an inch or two in order to get clearance to get the manifold off?  or will it come off without unbolting the motor mounts?  The drivers side looks to have plenty of room to get off, but the passenger side is less than a half inch from the inner fender/shock tower, the studs stick out half the distance alone, the manifold is too wide to slide off the bolts as far as i can tell.  If it were raised upwards an inch or two, I'm pretty sure I could get them off.  But as it sits, i just don't see how it can be done. Maybe there is a trick i'm missing.   Would hate to have to disconnect the transmission mounting bolts, and the motor mounts just so i could lift the motor the requisite inch or two.  Pretty much guarrantees that I'd get greasy sand in the eyes and nose under the car, been there done that before....twice...  swore the last time that i did it alone that i'd never attempt it again, the heads are one thing, the block  and trans are another.  
69 RT/SE Y3 cream yellow w/tan vinyl top and black r/t stripe. non matching 440/375, 3:23, Column shift auto w/buddy seat, tan interior, am/fm w/fr to back fade, Now wears 17" magnum 500 rims and Nitto tires. Fresh repaint, new interior, new wheels and tires.

XH29N0G

See what others say b/c I have only done this one or two times and don't know if my approach is right.  I have had success undoing one engine mount and lifting from the bottom of the oil pan.  This is with a 383 (not a 440).  You could see if the manifold comes off after loosening it and before lifting.  That is what it sounds like your plan is, and then you can lift if needed.  I my guess is that the engine will lift enough if needed.  I do not know if you could use two nuts on the studs to back them out.  This depends on how well fixed they are to the heads.  I am assuming you have already drained the cooling system.  If not you will want to do this before pulling studs or the head. 

Who in their right mind would say

"The science should not stand in the way of this."? 

Science is just observation and hypothesis.  Policy stands in the way.........

Or maybe it protects us. 

I suppose it depends on the specific case.....

Lord Warlock

Cooling system is already drained.  I currently have all the accessories off the front of the motor, and the radiator out of the car.  The two nuts for the exhaust manifold are easily accessible from under the k-member opening, or from the right wheelwell area (provided i remove the wheel).  The two nuts really aren't the question, its getting the manifold to slide far enough off the studs to roll the manifold off the engine.  I don't think i could get the manifold off of the exhaust pipe last time i tried, i just left it connected last time.  When i pulled the motor previously, I disconnected the transmission crossmember and jacked the motor up high enough to pull the cross member out of the way of the transmission tailshaft.  Then pulled the entire motor and transmission out at once,  when i got it clear enough on the right side i disconnected the manifold. 

When i blew the original 440 up, I installed a 383 magnum the first time,  thinking it was a 440 (externally you can't really tell, I didn't figure it out till i had the motor installed and was putting the distributor in place and it stuck out an inch taller than the 440 did), and there was more clearance on the sides than the 440 has.  The 383 lasted about a year and it blew up too, and i got a wrecked charger r/t and pulled the 440 out of it and put it into my car.  Unfortunately, on the donor car, there was a U shaped dent where the fender was pushed into the motor itself (car hit a telephone pole just behind the front wheel) I had to break the right side manifold off with a sledge hammer to get the motor out, which is one reason why i decided to put my original heads on the replacement motor.  So in reality, i've only really removed this manifold once before, and its been so long ago those memories are long gone. 
69 RT/SE Y3 cream yellow w/tan vinyl top and black r/t stripe. non matching 440/375, 3:23, Column shift auto w/buddy seat, tan interior, am/fm w/fr to back fade, Now wears 17" magnum 500 rims and Nitto tires. Fresh repaint, new interior, new wheels and tires.

ACUDANUT

There is only one long bolt on each side of the motor mounts to take out, if you need the clearance to take off the head (s)....No biggie. :cheers:

XH29N0G

Quote from: Lord Warlock on December 04, 2013, 10:30:19 PM
....Unfortunately, on the donor car, there was a U shaped dent where the fender was pushed into the motor itself (car hit a telephone pole just behind the front wheel) I had to break the right side manifold off with a sledge hammer to get the motor out, which is one reason why i decided to put my original heads on the replacement motor.  .... 

That conjures an image.  My guess is if you get the bolts free on the manifold, take out the lower bolt on the mount - the one that holds the mount to the K-frame on that side and lift the engine that it will rotate to give enough space. I think it will only lift so far until the bell housing hits, but my guess is that will be enough.  I think you can also try using the double nut approach to pulling the offending studs, or as a last resort to cut them.  But I think lifting the engine is not too big a deal.  If you use the oil pan, it is possible, maybe likely, that it will dent; so spreading out the lifting surface may be something you will want to do.
Who in their right mind would say

"The science should not stand in the way of this."? 

Science is just observation and hypothesis.  Policy stands in the way.........

Or maybe it protects us. 

I suppose it depends on the specific case.....

68 RT

You can just take out the pass. side motor mount bolt. It will raise up high enough to get the exhaust manifold off. I just did it on my 68.

Lord Warlock

thanks, thats what i needed to know. 
69 RT/SE Y3 cream yellow w/tan vinyl top and black r/t stripe. non matching 440/375, 3:23, Column shift auto w/buddy seat, tan interior, am/fm w/fr to back fade, Now wears 17" magnum 500 rims and Nitto tires. Fresh repaint, new interior, new wheels and tires.